Loving all people

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Many Christians in the U.S. have a problem accepting homosexuals, LGBT’s, and immigrants. And there are some that have less than appropriate ideas about women and minorities. (As has been seen this past year or so).

Some use bible verses to support their evil ideas. This is so very sad.

It was revealed to me recently that these actions are actually contrary to the FIRST commandment. And contrary to the Lord as well.

Exodus 20:1-6

1And God spoke all these words: 2"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3"You shall have no other gods before me. 4"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

When a person takes their own ideas (“on the earth”) and/or bible verses (“of anything in heaven above”) and uses these ideas against other people, this is what is meant by “you shall not make for yourself an image”.

This is taking something contrary to the Lord (“an image”) and raising it above the Word of the Lord.

Hence, an idol. Something made of man, and not of the Lord.

Those ideas that say others (homosexuals, immigrants, minorities, women) are somehow not equal with you, are breaking of this commandment.

If you are caught up in this religious deception, please ask the Lord to open your eyes.

Worship of the Lord is evidenced when a person loves others. Loves others, respects others, treats others as you would want to be treated, period. Worship is not singing songs in a church building.

Matthew 15:9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'"

Jollybear · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Many Christians in the U.S. have a problem accepting homosexuals, LGBT’s, and immigrants. And there are some that have less than appropriate ideas about women and minorities. (As has been seen this past year or so).

Some use bible verses to support their evil ideas. This is so very sad.

It was revealed to me recently that these actions are actually contrary to the FIRST commandment. And contrary to the Lord as well.

Exodus 20:1-6

1And God spoke all these words: 2"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3"You shall have no other gods before me. 4"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

When a person takes their own ideas (“on the earth”) and/or bible verses (“of anything in heaven above”) and uses these ideas against other people, this is what is meant by “you shall not make for yourself an image”.

This is taking something contrary to the Lord (“an image”) and raising it above the Word of the Lord.

Hence, an idol. Something made of man, and not of the Lord.

Those ideas that say others (homosexuals, immigrants, minorities, women) are somehow not equal with you, are breaking of this commandment.

If you are caught up in this religious deception, please ask the Lord to open your eyes.

Worship of the Lord is evidenced when a person loves others. Loves others, respects others, treats others as you would want to be treated, period. Worship is not singing songs in a church building.

Matthew 15:9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'"

As a Christian believer myself, i can understand christians using the bible to reject homosexuality, however, to reject immigrants and women as equals dont make much sense to me. The bible clearly talks of immigrants and women in a acceptable fassion.

Now all that said, dont misunderstand me on the homosexuality part, the bible clearly does not condone the practice, but it does say we should be kind and loving to all people, that includes them.

socharlie · Mar 9, 2018

example: I do not care or like LGBT idea, but, individually do I want any of those people to be harmed? No, I want them to be healthy and happy.

WalterTrull · Mar 9, 2018

We (me included) have to work on this. I realize it's fear that makes us mistrust and try to remove ourselves from the apparent danger. "There but for..." Drink the wine. Pass it around if you can. The bread's kinda hard to chew, but worth it. We are one. Left hand fearing the right hand is a recipe for much pain.

pearl · Mar 9, 2018

WalterTrull said:
We are one.

At least we are meant to be.

WalterTrull said:
"There but for

Never did like that quote, it wrongly assumes that the 'other' is not in His grace.

Audie · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Many Christians in the U.S. have a problem accepting homosexuals, LGBT’s, and immigrants. And there are some that have less than appropriate ideas about women and minorities. (As has been seen this past year or so).

Some use bible verses to support their evil ideas. This is so very sad.

It was revealed to me recently that these actions are actually contrary to the FIRST commandment.

Of course one of the reasons for the popularity of the bible is that it can be used to support whatever you
like. Lo here and lo there. Sad.

With regard to the subject of your post tho, loving ALL
people?

That is not at all the same thing as being accepting of
selected minority groups against which one may be prejudiced.

I dont suppose anyone is completely free of some degree of racial or other prejudice. Im not; I doubt you are. We can only strive, do our best.

AND, while I may respect someone's right to live, to have an opinion, to some other things, but I do not and
will not and cannot "love" everyone.

I've freed myself from the white hot hatred and wish to
see destroyed certain persons who've done me great
harm; on some level I've even discovered a small measure of compassion. Love?

I am not into self deception and I wont so debase the word as to say I could apply it to those men.

sun rise · Mar 9, 2018

Audie said:
Of course one of the reasons for the popularity of the bible is that it can be used to support whatever you
like. Lo here and lo there. Sad.

Yes. Quite a few sadly create God in their own image and twist scriptures including the Bible to justify their stance.

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Jollybear said:
As a Christian believer myself, i can understand christians using the bible to reject homosexuality, however, to reject immigrants and women as equals dont make much sense to me. The bible clearly talks of immigrants and women in a acceptable fassion.

Now all that said, dont misunderstand me on the homosexuality part, the bible clearly does not condone the practice, but it does say we should be kind and loving to all people, that includes them.

The bible does not “clearly” not condone the practice. But your religion does. Read the Bible from the first word all the way to the last word. Let it sink in. Try to open your eyes to the spiritual message. There is a theme. It doesn’t support your “clearly not condoning” message. I find it sad that people insist on reading only a verse or two out of the entirety of the Bible to preach condemnation to others. And you are not being kind to homosexuals by trying to regulate their existence by means of laws you create.

Jollybear · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
The bible does not “clearly” not condone the practice. But your religion does. Read the Bible from the first word all the way to the last word. Let it sink in. Try to open your eyes to the spiritual message. There is a theme. It doesn’t support your “clearly not condoning” message. I find it sad that people insist on reading only a verse or two out of the entirety of the Bible to preach condemnation to others. And you are not being kind to homosexuals by trying to regulate their existence by means of laws you create.

Well, you misunderstand me. Let me explain. Im a man who has talked and dealt with homosexuals in my life and done so kindly.

One time i was a lumber jack and i worked with one. It was just me and him...in the woods....alone. however, we got along, for the most part. Any time we did have a conflict, it had nothing to do with his sexual oriantation. But, iregardless, mostly we got along .

My wifes sister is lesbian and shes married to a lesbian. And i get along with them just fine. In fact, weve never had a conflict of any sort ever.

Also. Just recently, my new job wanted me to team drive with someone. Over the road truck driving. I said sure. I talked to that team person. He was honest with me about being a homosexual. I was honest with him about being straight too and that i was married, to a female.

I told him despite that im still willing to team drive with him. And he was too. However it did not happen, not because of him being homosexual though, but because he failed his drug test.

So, as you can see, my actions have never rejected homosexuals or been unkind to them.

However, i cannot read the bible and bring myself to believe the bible acceps the practice.

Even if i did not believe the bible, id still believe the bible believes homosexuality is condemned by God.

Now, hear me out, this dont mean i think a person who has such feelings of homosexuality is condemned by God, if that wer the case everyone that has sin tendencies and feelings on ANY KIND of sin would be condemned by God.

God deals with ones WHOLE life, not just one aspect of it.

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Jollybear said:
Well, you misunderstand me. Let me explain. Im a man who has talked and dealt with homosexuals in my life and done so kindly.

One time i was a lumber jack and i worked with one. It was just me and him...in the woods....alone. however, we got along, for the most part. Any time we did have a conflict, it had nothing to do with his sexual oriantation. But, iregardless, mostly we got along .

My wifes sister is lesbian and shes married to a lesbian. And i get along with them just fine. In fact, weve never had a conflict of any sort ever.

Also. Just recently, my new job wanted me to team drive with someone. Over the road truck driving. I said sure. I talked to that team person. He was honest with me about being a homosexual. I was honest with him about being straight too and that i was married, to a female.

I told him despite that im still willing to team drive with him. And he was too. However it did not happen, not because of him being homosexual though, but because he failed his drug test.

So, as you can see, my actions have never rejected homosexuals or been unkind to them.

However, i cannot read the bible and bring myself to believe the bible acceps the practice.

Even if i did not believe the bible, id still believe the bible believes homosexuality is condoned by God.

Now, hear me out, this dont mean i think a person who has such feelings of homosexuality is condemned by God, if that wer the case everyone that has sin tendencies and feelings on ANY KIND of sin would be condemned by God.

God deals with ones WHOLE life, not just one aspect of it.

Thank you for your very thoughtful comment.

I can easily understand what you have said.
At one time, when I attended church, I felt similar.
Today, I’m much happier and at peace with the Lord I know now.
I receive more and more insight daily from the Lord.

I became aware of the logic that the Lord being an infinite entity, would undoubtedly cause anything that originates from Him to be infinite as well. That would include the Bible. There is much hidden in those verses that hold beauty far far beyond the literal words.

My wife was a Christian for more than 40 years before me. I found the Lord only a couple years back. Well, once that happened, I sought His wisdom with fervor. About 6 months ago, we stopped going to church. We tried quite a few, but they were always disappointing. Since that time I have been studying on my own. The Lord blessed me recently with an ability to understand more deeply what is written in the Bible.

My change came, when I was given the eyes to see the Bible in a spiritual sense. I no longer look at the literal. It’s caused an amazing change in my understanding. After a few days of revelation which initially came through the first few books of Genesis, I mentioned it to my wife. I told her ‘I went down the rabbit hole, nothing is as it seems. Would you like to go?’
She said yes and it’s been incredible for both of us ever since.
How wonderful and sensible the creation story becomes, when you stop looking at it literally. You start to get more of a sense of the Lord’s will and character. You see everything differently.

Think of this wise statement from Paul.
Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

God bless.

Jollybear · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Thank you for your very thoughtful comment.

I can easily understand what you have said.
At one time, when I attended church, I felt similar.
Today, I’m much happier and at peace with the Lord I know now.
I receive more and more insight daily from the Lord.

I became aware of the logic that the Lord being an infinite entity, would undoubtedly cause anything that originates from Him to be infinite as well. That would include the Bible. There is much hidden in those verses that hold beauty far far beyond the literal words.

My wife was a Christian for more than 40 years before me. I found the Lord only a couple years back. Well, once that happened, I sought His wisdom with fervor. About 6 months ago, we stopped going to church. We tried quite a few, but they were always disappointing. Since that time I have been studying on my own. The Lord blessed me recently with an ability to understand more deeply what is written in the Bible.

My change came, when I was given the eyes to see the Bible in a spiritual sense. I no longer look at the literal. It’s caused an amazing change in my understanding. After a few days of revelation which initially came through the first few books of Genesis, I mentioned it to my wife. I told her ‘I went down the rabbit hole, nothing is as it seems. Would you like to go?’
She said yes and it’s been incredible for both of us ever since.
How wonderful and sensible the creation story becomes, when you stop looking at it literally. You start to get more of a sense of the Lord’s will and character. You see everything differently.

Think of this wise statement from Paul.
Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

God bless.

I like your point about the rabbit hole.

I had a thought about the verse on homosexuality being an "abomination" in the books of moses.

What i thought is that this verse is not just dealing with the outward practice alone, but it was dealing with a early time and culture.

Now, of course Gods word transcends time and culture, but his word also specifically works within time and culture too.

What im getting at is: the beginning of things was to BUILD and grow and preserve a nation. If perse, homosexuality wer rampent, well, obviously a nation could not grow.

So, it seams churches tend to get STUCK on a certain practice and theres nothing else surrounding it. They got blinders on and see only one aspect of the subject.

Theres also the issues of homosexual animals too. Thats a very real thing.

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Jollybear said:
I like your point about the rabbit hole.

I had a thought about the verse on homosexuality being an "abomination" in the books of moses.

What i thought is that this verse is not just dealing with the outward practice alone, but it was dealing with a early time and culture.

Now, of course Gods word transcends time and culture, but his word also specifically works within time and culture too.

What im getting at is: the beginning of things was to BUILD and grow and preserve a nation. If perse, homosexuality wer rampent, well, obviously a nation could not grow.

So, it seams churches tend to get STUCK on a certain practice and theres nothing else surrounding it. They got blinders on and see only one aspect of the subject.

Theres also the issues of homosexual animals too. Thats a very real thing.

It’s nice to read your posts.
I like your insight.

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Jollybear said:
I like your point about the rabbit hole.

I had a thought about the verse on homosexuality being an "abomination" in the books of moses.

What i thought is that this verse is not just dealing with the outward practice alone, but it was dealing with a early time and culture.

Now, of course Gods word transcends time and culture, but his word also specifically works within time and culture too.

What im getting at is: the beginning of things was to BUILD and grow and preserve a nation. If perse, homosexuality wer rampent, well, obviously a nation could not grow.

So, it seams churches tend to get STUCK on a certain practice and theres nothing else surrounding it. They got blinders on and see only one aspect of the subject.

Theres also the issues of homosexual animals too. Thats a very real thing.

When I mentioned the rabbit hole to my wife, I was really afraid she would be reluctant. She was very much into the present day Christian narrative, which I thought it was my duty to believe as well. Even though much of what they are preaching (peddling?) has not settled well with me.
Well, I am at peace now, and she has changed dramatically. It’s only been a few months, but we study the Bible a few hours a day together. Yet it doesn’t ever seem like I get enough.

Truthseeker · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Many Christians in the U.S. have a problem accepting homosexuals, LGBT’s, and immigrants. And there are some that have less than appropriate ideas about women and minorities. (As has been seen this past year or so).

Some use bible verses to support their evil ideas. This is so very sad.

It was revealed to me recently that these actions are actually contrary to the FIRST commandment. And contrary to the Lord as well.

Exodus 20:1-6

1And God spoke all these words: 2"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 3"You shall have no other gods before me. 4"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

When a person takes their own ideas (“on the earth”) and/or bible verses (“of anything in heaven above”) and uses these ideas against other people, this is what is meant by “you shall not make for yourself an image”.

This is taking something contrary to the Lord (“an image”) and raising it above the Word of the Lord.

Hence, an idol. Something made of man, and not of the Lord.

Those ideas that say others (homosexuals, immigrants, minorities, women) are somehow not equal with you, are breaking of this commandment.

If you are caught up in this religious deception, please ask the Lord to open your eyes.

Worship of the Lord is evidenced when a person loves others. Loves others, respects others, treats others as you would want to be treated, period. Worship is not singing songs in a church building.

Matthew 15:9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.'"

That is very profound, and I agree with it.

However, you argued elsewhere that homosexual actions was not a sin. It is a sin, but no worse than any sexual relations outside of marriage. When you read the Bible, there may be esoteric meanings in the words, but the exoteric meaning is sometimes there, too. One doesn't throw away the exoteric meaning, at least in some cases. The rule of no homosexual relations is one of those.

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Truthseeker9 said:
That is very profound, and I agree with it.

However, you argued elsewhere that homosexual actions was not a sin. It is a sin, but no worse than any sexual relations outside of marriage. When you read the Bible, there may be esoteric meanings in the words, but the exoteric meaning is sometimes there, too. One doesn't throw away the exoteric meaning, at least in some cases. The rule of no homosexual relations is one of those.

Yes, I do believe it’s not a sin.
Also, what is a marriage? A piece of paper from a government?
Did Abraham have such a thing? Did he have 1 wife, 2, or three?
Did Solomon have 300 ish marriage licenses?
So, if a government decides not to give some people a marriage license, they become sinners? Is the government an agent of God, or maybe God works for the government?

Sin is not difficult to understand for me. Two guys living together in a loving, supportive arrangement does not fit into the sin category. I believe it’s quite possible for the ‘two guys living together’ to accomplish God’s will (and follow the Lord’s simple commandments) just as easily as anyone else.

Jollybear · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Yes, I do believe it’s not a sin.
Also, what is a marriage? A piece of paper from a government?
Did Abraham have such a thing? Did he have 1 wife, 2, or three?
Did Solomon have 300 ish marriage licenses?
So, if a government decides not to give some people a marriage license, they become sinners? Is the government an agent of God, or maybe God works for the government?

Sin is not difficult to understand for me. Two guys living together in a loving, supportive arrangement does not fit into the sin category. I believe it’s quite possible for the ‘two guys living together’ to accomplish God’s will (and follow the Lord’s simple commandments) just as easily as anyone else.

I agree that cirtificates of marriage are not the be all end all. Like adam and eve had none of that.

But, id like to hear why you say the act itself of homosexuality is not a sin? And do you gather that from the bible? If so, how do you interpret those verses that speak on homosexuality?

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Jollybear said:
I agree that cirtificates of marriage are not the be all end all. Like adam and eve had none of that.

But, id like to hear why you say the act itself of homosexuality is not a sin? And do you gather that from the bible? If so, how do you interpret those verses that speak on homosexuality?

Thanks for your question.
A sin is an act of evil against another person.
The Lord is not interested in sin as He is interested in love.
I get this from the entire theme of the bible.
Verses that comes to mind:
Matthew 22:35-40
35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: "'Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Commandments in the OT was a long list of rules, mainly what not to do I think.
Notice how Jesus sums it up?
Love God
Love your neighbor
Notice verse 40?
“ALL the law” hangs on these (love)
So Jesus, when put on the spot, summarizes what is required to obtain God’s kingdom. Love. Period.

The laws were written to tell the individual where he/she may be going wrong. That’s it. Not to use as a club against someone else. It was a personal list for each individual. It’s for you only.
And for me only. And for the homosexual only. It’s not for you or me to use against him.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The letter kills. Not the sinner. But the judge.
Jesus constantly condemned the Pharisees for their hypocritical judgment, and lack of mercy. Mercy comes from love. That’s what the Lord wants.
It’s the Lord’s job to judge others.
And His ONLY judgement comes from our level of love, not what you eat, not who you sleep with, not how many times you go to a church and sing songs, not what you tithe.
Matthew 25:31-46.
I won’t print it out, but the Lord describes here who will inherit the kingdom. It seems to be an eye opener for many of the goats.
They were deceived.
Don’t be deceived.

As far as the verses re: homosexuality.
The law part I think is explained above.
The one or two verses from Paul, were referring to practices being done in the Roman Empire, which were rape, buying slaves for sex, a lot of evil practices that were commonplace at that time.
In other words, acts of evil, not love.
Paul knew what he was talking about. He wrote some great stuff.
He knew evil. He knew love. He knew the Lord.
He didn’t mislead you. A homosexual couple dedicated to each other and in love is a possibility, regardless of what the religion wants to say. And their love for each other, and their love for their God, and their love for their neighbors, is what The Lord cares about, and how He will separate the sheep and the goats.
Anyway, our only concern is whether we get placed in the flock of sheep.

As far as the religious

deception re: homosexuality, I realize they also use the story of Sodom as well. I won’t even bother with the spiritual content of that story, but I will keep it literal.

Read all of Ezekiel 16, it’s interesting.
I will highlight a couple of verses.
Verse 49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

The sins of Sodom were, effectively, lack of LOVE.
Not homosexuality, as religion would lead you to believe.

Now verses 53-54.
However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort.

Hmmm, the Lord is going to restore the fortunes of Sodom? Did religion mention that?
It seems the Lord is not so interested in punishing sin as He is for rewarding love.

Verse 57 says Jerusalem had greater evil than Sodom.

Verses 61-62
Then you will remember with shame all the evil you have done. I will make your sisters, Samaria and Sodom, to be your daughters, even though they are not part of our covenant. 62 And I will reaffirm my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the Lord.

I can only plead again, don’t be deceived.
God bless.

And I hope I was able to answer you.

Jollybear · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Thanks for your question.
A sin is an act of evil against another person.
The Lord is not interested in sin as He is interested in love.
I get this from the entire theme of the bible.
Verses that comes to mind:
Matthew 22:35-40
35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: "'Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Commandments in the OT was a long list of rules, mainly what not to do I think.
Notice how Jesus sums it up?
Love God
Love your neighbor
Notice verse 40?
“ALL the law” hangs on these (love)
So Jesus, when put on the spot, summarizes what is required to obtain God’s kingdom. Love. Period.

The laws were written to tell the individual where he/she may be going wrong. That’s it. Not to use as a club against someone else. It was a personal list for each individual. It’s for you only.
And for me only. And for the homosexual only. It’s not for you or me to use against him.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The letter kills. Not the sinner. But the judge.
Jesus constantly condemned the Pharisees for their hypocritical judgment, and lack of mercy. Mercy comes from love. That’s what the Lord wants.
It’s the Lord’s job to judge others.
And His ONLY judgement comes from our level of love, not what you eat, not who you sleep with, not how many times you go to a church and sing songs, not what you tithe.
Matthew 25:31-46.
I won’t print it out, but the Lord describes here who will inherit the kingdom. It seems to be an eye opener for many of the goats.
They were deceived.
Don’t be deceived.

As far as the verses re: homosexuality.
The law part I think is explained above.
The one or two verses from Paul, were referring to practices being done in the Roman Empire, which were rape, buying slaves for sex, a lot of evil practices that were commonplace at that time.
In other words, acts of evil, not love.
Paul knew what he was talking about. He wrote some great stuff.
He knew evil. He knew love. He knew the Lord.
He didn’t mislead you. A homosexual couple dedicated to each other and in love is a possibility, regardless of what the religion wants to say. And their love for each other, and their love for their God, and their love for their neighbors, is what The Lord cares about, and how He will separate the sheep and the goats.
Anyway, our only concern is whether we get placed in the flock of sheep.

As far as the religious deception re: homosexuality, I realize they also use the story of Sodom as well. I won’t even bother with the spiritual content of that story, but I will keep it literal.

Read all of Ezekiel 16, it’s interesting.
I will highlight a couple of verses.
Verse 49
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

The sins of Sodom were, effectively, lack of LOVE.
Not homosexuality, as religion would lead you to believe.

Now verses 53-54.
However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort.

Hmmm, the Lord is going to restore the fortunes of Sodom? Did religion mention that?
It seems the Lord is not so interested in punishing sin as He is for rewarding love.

Verse 57 says Jerusalem had greater evil than Sodom.

Verses 61-62
Then you will remember with shame all the evil you have done. I will make your sisters, Samaria and Sodom, to be your daughters, even though they are not part of our covenant. 62 And I will reaffirm my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the Lord.

I can only plead again, don’t be deceived.
God bless.

And I hope I was able to answer you.

You brought up some interesting things on sodom that even though i read before, i never really noticed it as much as now.

Id like to get your interpretation on romans 1:26-27

"26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Jeremiah Ames · Mar 9, 2018

Jollybear said:
You brought up some interesting things on sodom that even though i read before, i never really noticed it as much as now.

Id like to get your interpretation on romans 1:26-27

"26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Well, I read quite a bit of commentary regarding the times.
I can’t see how these would differ from what I posted in the previous one. We have a difficult time imagining life in those days.
It was somewhere slightly above the animals, but far below civilized, as far as I can tell.
Some of the true Christian concepts that Paul was trying to preach were alien to the people he came across that he was trying to bring to the church. Even the Jews were equally despicable. The Bible portrays them as such, as well as reading the Talmud.

Even worse. Some very sad stuff went on. Paul was preaching to an audience engulfed in evil. Humanity at its lowest. That’s why Jesus came at that time.

Edit
Paul preached many things that really have no bearing today.
What about the stuff regarding women?

Jollybear · Mar 9, 2018

Gerry said:
Well, I read quite a bit of commentary regarding the times.
I can’t see how these would differ from what I posted in the previous one. We have a difficult time imagining life in those days.
It was somewhere slightly above the animals, but far below civilized, as far as I can tell.
Some of the true Christian concepts that Paul was trying to preach were alien to the people he came across that he was trying to bring to the church. Even the Jews were equally despicable. The Bible portrays them as such, as well as reading the Talmud. Even worse. Some very sad stuff went on. Paul was preaching to an audience engulfed in evil. Humanity at its lowest. That’s why Jesus came at that time.

Edit
Paul preached many things that really have no bearing today.
What about the stuff regarding women?

Ok....well, heres a question that is apart from scripture.

On a creation/design level, the bodies of male and female biologically are made to intercourse and procreate together.

To have it as man and man or woman and woman goes against that design.

Allegory: jeans are designed to be worn on the legs. But wouldnt it be odd if we saw someone trying to wear it as a shirt? I guess we could say there free to do as they wish, there not hurting anyone. But....it still goes against the design of the jeans. Its still odd.

Whats your thoughts on this?

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