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Questions for Panentheists

BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Buddha Dharma said:
Well the story the Monkey King is taken from: Journey to the West, definitely shows the Buddha as being in everything.

Son Goku tried to flee from the Buddha in a magical contest. He spied five mountains in the distance, and thinking himself safe stopped to rest. The mountains were the Buddha's fingers and he had caught Son Goku in his hand.

Cartoons are often made in the east to teach Buddhism to kids, so it's probably pretty good actually. Anime also carries Buddhist themes and morals more often than not. Like you'll often see a main protagonist who's kind to animals and shows their enemies mercy.
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Okay... set me straight. Panentheism and Pantheism. Basically one is the belief that God is IN everything and the other is the belief that God IS everything (let's keep it simple for the sake of discussion). Which is which?
 
Buddha Dharma

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
BSM1 said:
Okay... set me straight. Panentheism and Pantheism. Basically one is the belief that God is IN everything and the other is the belief that God IS everything (let's keep it simple for the sake of discussion). Which is which?
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There are actually differing views among Buddhist schools, and a transcendent Buddha doesn't appear to be a Theravadan belief. I tend more toward Panentheism, as does my school Tendai. That the Buddha, or God- is in everything, but still somehow unique.

Pantheism doesn't necessarily hold that the transcendent has attributes is the difference. I say that the transcendent has attributes- the attributes of Buddha, but those are paradoxical in nature.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Buddha Dharma said:
There are actually differing views among Buddhist schools, and a transcendent Buddha doesn't appear to be a Theravadan belief. I tend more toward Panentheism, as does my school Tendai. That the Buddha, or God- is in everything, but still somehow unique.

Pantheism doesn't necessarily hold that the transcendent has attributes is the difference. I say that the transcendent has attributes- the attributes of Buddha, but those are paradoxical in nature.
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Thanks, I think...
 
Samantha Rinne

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
The rule of thumb is when God is everything, God is (as Taoism describes) like water. If you drop into water, water is all around you. But it doesn't really have a personal nature. It can be affected by what's in the water, but we don't tend to anthropomorphize water.

For the record, Taoism is never wholly one thing or another, so it would not (strictly speaking) be fair to call Taoism pantheism either. They're kinda professional fence-sitters in terms of committing to theology.

Panentheism is closer to the whole personal Jesus thing... if you also believe that Jesus is everywhere and everyone. Essentially, if you believe in a personal deity that is also part of everything, you're talking about panentheism. If you believe in an impersonal force which all things are part of, probably pantheism.
 
ZenMonkey

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Sophia Holder said:
I have always been trying to find a religion/belief that correlate with my beliefs. I currently identify as an Agnostic Christian, but I don't feel like that is the correct label for my beliefs.

I recently found out about Pantheism and Panentheism, and I have been researching them. Most of what they believe is what I believe, but I am a bit confused about Panentheism. I understand that it means that God is the universe, but also greater than the universe (an intelligent being), but I still don't completely understand the concept. It would be helpful if people could possibly answer some questions I have, so I can figure out which better suits my beliefs.

A few questions I have:

Did God create the universe, or was it always there? If he created it, then why did He want to separate himself, per say, into different 'entities'? I understand the universe and Him are like a whole, but if He is the Creator and the Created then why did he create the created?

I'm sorry if that makes no sense. I am not very great at wording questions.

Thank you in advance!
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I can only speak for myself ... as with any other religion and/or philosophy. With that said, panentheism ... with en in the middle almost like a balancing point, and as I understand it, about all that is, all that ever was, and all that will ever be ... you gotta get the ever increasing involved, otherwise it seems stagnate, imo. In short, I call it life, existence, what is, or as the hermetics like to call it ... The All. In my opinion and with as much understanding I can muster, I'd say yes ... God created from within God's own substance all there will ever be. To me it's an infinite,ouroborose type of phenomena. Like the birth of universes and babies and everything really, like closing doors to new open doors, rinse repeat x infinity. That's life to me and the origins of what is, which is how I view the term God (in part) ... "the origin and sustainer of all life". I think this can, and rightfully so, be viewed many different ways. That's life (Frank Sinatra). Great tune and that's an easy and applicable way to view it across the board if you ask me ... and I guess you did, hence your op.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
ZenMonkey said:
I can only speak for myself ... as with any other religion and/or philosophy. With that said, panentheism ... with en in the middle almost like a balancing point, and as I understand it, about all that is, all that ever was, and all that will ever be ... you gotta get the ever increasing involved, otherwise it seems stagnate, imo. In short, I call it life, existence, what is, or as the hermetics like to call it ... The All. In my opinion and with as much understanding I can muster, I'd say yes ... God created from within God's own substance all there will ever be. To me it's an infinite,ouroborose type of phenomena. Like the birth of universes and babies and everything really, like closing doors to new open doors, rinse repeat x infinity. That's life to me and the origins of what is, which is how I view the term God (in part) ... "the origin and sustainer of all life". I think this can, and rightfully so, be viewed many different ways. That's life (Frank Sinatra). Great tune and that's an easy and applicable way to view it across the board if you ask me ... and I guess you did, hence your op.
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It's my understanding that Panthiesm is saying God is IN everything; whereas Panenthiesm is God IS everything. I lean toward the latter.
 
ZenMonkey

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
BSM1 said:
It's my understanding that Panthiesm is saying God is IN everything; whereas Panenthiesm is God IS everything. I lean toward the latter.
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My understanding is pantheism is God is existing universe, which places panentheism similar but not quite the same .... If the universe is ever increasing or expanding and is continually infinite in scope ... going both ways I would assume inward - outward then that's panentheism to me
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
ZenMonkey said:
My understanding is pantheism is God is existing universe, which places panentheism similar but not quite the same .... If the universe is ever increasing or expanding and is continually infinite in scope ... going both ways I would assume inward - outward then that's panentheism to me
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You need to expand your thinking to grasp the concepts, IMHO. PANTHEISM is God being IN everything; PANENTHEISM is God IS everything, including this conversation. At least, this is my understanding.
 
ZenMonkey

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
BSM1 said:
You need to expand your thinking to grasp the concepts, IMHO. PANTHEISM is God being IN everything; PANENTHEISM is God IS everything, including this conversation. At least, this is my understanding.
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I suggested nothing less, in - out - infinite increasing both ways. The All to put it simply. But yeah, I might can see your confusion being you don't know me, or know my views, or maybe you failed to read my post. I don't know.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
ZenMonkey said:
I suggested nothing less, in - out - infinite increasing both ways. The All to put it simply. But yeah, I might can see your confusion being you don't know me, or know my views, or maybe you failed to read my post. I don't know.
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Wasn't confused and I did read your post. I think I just simplified the concept.
 
J

Joshua Pryce

Member
Sophia Holder said:
Did God create the universe, or was it always there? If he created it, then why did He want to separate himself, per say, into different 'entities'? I understand the universe and Him are like a whole, but if He is the Creator and the Created then why did he create the created?
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I believe that God would not separate Himself but its possible for God to be totally and perfectly unified at the same time be separate. A creator creates and for God to be God he would have to perfectly create together even as separate beings.
 
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