What is Israel doing?

Deeje said:

I'm sure God doesn't work that way and he is also aware of our motives.

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The rational I have heard is similar to that of divine inspiration authorship of the Bible, use of Assyria and Babylon to punish Israel and the various battles during the Kingdom and Conquest periods in which God took a more active part. If I remember correctly God in a battle for Israel caused an army of 20k to flee from no more than 300 (memory is foggy my numbers could be off) Israelite (again memory could be still Hebrews)

We are judged by our own works and by the fact that we show repentance. You can't buy God's favor, or win it by giving candy to someone's baby.

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I do not think it is about favour (in their minds) but a mistaken belief of one's role within prophecy. I do not know if you ascribe to the idea of Israel's reestablishment in 48 as a prophecy but that is part of the viewpoint for many. Israel of the Book of Revelation is seen as the current nation rather than a spiritual idea of Israel as a group of people. So for some not supporting Israel is due to the former would be seen as going against prophecy. Toss in an interpretation of the wars within the Book of Revelation include wars against the current nation-state of Israeli.

Being on the wrong side of prophecy so to speak.

Epic Beard Man said:

The link is very clear you're just not accepting the submitted evidence.

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If you can't state it clearly in your own words, is it really?
The article is strong on negative opinions, but weak on facts.
You've not established how....
- Bannon is anti-semitic.
- Bannon being anti-semitic proves Trump is.

Epic Beard Man said:

Trump supports Israel as much as David Duke....People think just because a president does something for another country that said president deep down in their "soul" really supports them. In politics you have establishment and there are groups with power. there is a small Jewish base with power and some influence and to not appear anti-semitic Trump is going to cow toe to that base to fly off the radar. This happens. Trump is smart enough to not appear racist or anti-semitic because to the international community it looks bad and its bad for business both for himself and for the country.

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I can't deal with what's deep down it people's soul, no offense. It seems to get easier and easier to find a reason to call folks racist.

I think if I'm going to consider someone racist it's got to be based on their actions.

So if deep down Trump is a racist, who cares. What he does to affect the policies of the government is all that is important.

You can't hold a person accountable for what you think is in their heart.

Revoltingest said:

If you can't state it clearly in your own words, is it really?
The article is strong on negative opinions, but weak on facts.
You've not established how....
- Bannon is anti-semitic.
- Bannon being anti-semitic proves Trump is.

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In any area you are guilty by association.....

Bacon is the former executive chairman for Breitbart news, an organization that is known for its racist, sexist, and anti-Semitic views (see:Steve Bannon Steps Down From Breitbart Post).

It is well known in endorsing the alt-right’s views on Jews as we saw them marching on the University campus shouting “Jews will not replace us,” although media cites them saying “you will not replace us.”

I believe in order to work for organization you have to believe to some extent, the principles it subscribes. Even though Bannon was supported by the ZOA or the Zionist Organization of America, is one organization with some economical ties to abandon but it does not change the fact that Bannon being an editor for Breitbart, was amidst a website who still has a section for “black crime.”

Most governmental agencies look at your background including your social media to see what type of person you are and who you associate with. Even if Trump has not outright discussed his views about Jews the fact that he is choosing an individual associated with hatred makes Trump guilty of aligning himself with someone who is.

I have friends who I grew up with that I have on Facebook who gang bangs. If I decide to take a county job and they do a background check on me they will ask (which is a part of the hiring process) to open up my Facebook. This is usually indicative of two things: who I associate with, and what I say in my personal time. The latter reflects on who I am in my own personal space.


The same rules apply to Bannon... He embraces anti-semitism by being a part of it

Opinion | Steve Bannon Is Bad for the Jews

Epic Beard Man said:

In any area you are guilty by association.....

Bacon is the former executive chairman for Breitbart news, an organization that is known for its racist, sexist, and anti-Semitic views (see:Steve Bannon Steps Down From Breitbart Post).

It is well known in endorsing the alt-right’s views on Jews as we saw them marching on the University campus shouting “Jews will not replace us,” although media cites them saying “you will not replace us.”

I believe in order to work for organization you have to believe to some extent, the principles it subscribes. Even though Bannon was supported by the ZOA or the Zionist Organization of America, is one organization with some economical ties to abandon but it does not change the fact that Bannon being an editor for Breitbart, was amidst a website who still has a section for “black crime.”

Most governmental agencies look at your background including your social media to see what type of person you are and who you associate with. Even if Trump has not outright discussed his views about Jews the fact that he is choosing an individual associated with hatred makes Trump guilty of aligning himself with someone who is.

I have friends who I grew up with that I have on Facebook who gang bangs. If I decide to take a county job and they do a background check on me they will ask (which is a part of the hiring process) to open up my Facebook. This is usually indicative of two things: who I associate with, and what I say in my personal time. The latter reflects on who I am in my own personal space.


The same rules apply to Bannon... He embraces anti-semitism by being a part of it

Opinion | Steve Bannon Is Bad for the Jews

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I find that standard to be highly subjective & prejudicial.
It's so loose that one could believe anything one wanted.

Revoltingest said:

I find that standard to be highly subjective & prejudicial.
It's so loose that one could believe anything one wanted.

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I find your stance hardline just like the shooting discussion where you wanted to wait for all the facts concerning the shooter being associated with a white nationalist organization (which has been proven) along with the shooter expressing racist views. This is no different. If you don't accept it fine but there are several sites I've posted that states otherwise so we've come to an en passe.

Nakosis said:

I can't deal with what's deep down it people's soul, no offense. It seems to get easier and easier to find a reason to call folks racist.

I think if I'm going to consider someone racist it's got to be based on their actions.

So if deep down Trump is a racist, who cares. What he does to affect the policies of the government is all that is important.

You can't hold a person accountable for what you think is in their heart.

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For a white person (a person of the unaffected majority demographic) the comment of "who cares" is typical. Because it denotes the rejection of my feelings towards someone whose beliefs and practices can affect my demographic. His racism whether expressed internally or externally matters. I find it questionable that someone who wants to be a president for "all Americans" had to settle out of court for housing discrimination despite his belief of innocence.

I find it questionable his own father participated in the klan riots (people say well what his father did does not mean he is the same). People often forget that parents are our first teachers. I have no doubt given his misogynist views on women, as well as the questionable comments he has made towards others that the influence of his father is still strong in him. So yes, it does matter and I do care.

Epic Beard Man said:

I find your stance hardline just like the shooting discussion where you wanted to wait for all the facts concerning the shooter being associated with a white nationalist organization (which has been proven) along with the shooter expressing racist views.

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Waiting for information is always better than leaping to belief prematurely based upon personal prejudice.

This is no different. If you don't accept it fine but there are several sites I've posted that states otherwise so we've come to an en passe.

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Aye, this is no different.
You fall prey to bias confirmation.

Revoltingest said:

Waiting for information is always better than leaping to belief prematurely based upon personal prejudice.

Aye, this is no different.
You fall prey to bias confirmation.

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And you have not even contradicted both my opinion and what I've presented. You haven't even presented counter evidence, you're simply dismissing it. The point is there is nothing further to discuss is if you're simply looking at evidence and simply making an opinion of dismissal. If we are going to debate something at least presents something that is of the contrary to what is presented to you. Simply dismissing it is just a matter of opinion, not fact.

Epic Beard Man said:

And you have not even contradicted both my opinion and what I've presented. You haven't even presented counter evidence, you're simply dismissing it. The point is there is nothing further to discuss is if you're simply looking at evidence and simply making an opinion of dismissal. If we are going to debate something at least presents something that is of the contrary to what is presented to you. Simply dismissing it is just a matter of opinion, not fact.

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Here's the thing about your claim.
Your job is to provide evidence supporting it.
You haven't given anything but loose guilt by association.
It's not mine to provide contrary evidence in order to reject the claim.
But even so, I have, ie, the judgment of Israelis.
Were he the virulent anti-semite you claim, I'd expect them to notice it.

Revoltingest said:

Here's the thing about your claim.
Your job is to provide evidence.
You haven't.
It's not mine to provide contrary evidence in order to reject the claim.
But even so, I have, ie, the judgment of Israelis.
Were he the virulent anti-semite you claim, I'd expect them to notice it.

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I provided evidence from several sources. I supplemented that upon your request by giving my opinion. You did not refute nor contradict anything but just dismissed it thus an enpasse. Anyone can dismiss anything without using deductive reasoning. I could dismiss your humanity and think that you do not exist and that I'm merely having a conversation with myself and that any subsequent responses from you are a byproduct of my own hallucinations. The point is simply dismissing something without challenging said evidence is just a pointless endeavor.

Anyways look @Revoltingest this is tiresome and I have a lecture in a few I have to attend let us leave it there. This is rather boring go around and around on something so trivial.

Epic Beard Man said:

I provided evidence from several sources. I supplemented that upon your request by giving my opinion. You did not refute nor contradict anything but just dismissed it thus an enpasse. Anyone can dismiss anything without using deductive reasoning. I could dismiss your humanity and think that you do not exist and that I'm merely having a conversation with myself and that any subsequent responses from you are a byproduct of my own hallucinations. The point is simply dismissing something without challenging said evidence is just a pointless endeavor.

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It's like arguing about the existence of God.
I don't need evidence otherwise to be agnostic about it.
If you can't verify what you claim, I'll not believe.

But tell me....why is his anti-semitism so clear to you,
but not to Israelis? Are they unqualified to judge it?

Epic Beard Man said:

Anyways look @Revoltingest this is tiresome and I have a lecture in a few I have to attend let us leave it there. This is rather boring go around and around on something so trivial.

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I somehow doubt that you are including your own thinking in this triviality, but the choice of words is telling.

Epic Beard Man said:

For a white person (a person of the unaffected majority demographic) the comment of "who cares" is typical. Because it denotes the rejection of my feelings towards someone whose beliefs and practices can affect my demographic. His racism whether expressed internally or externally matters. I find it questionable that someone who wants to be a president for "all Americans" had to settle out of court for housing discrimination despite his belief of innocence.

I find it questionable his own father participated in the klan riots (people say well what his father did does not mean he is the same). People often forget that parents are our first teachers. I have no doubt given his misogynist views on women, as well as the questionable comments he has made towards others that the influence of his father is still strong in him. So yes, it does matter and I do care.

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You're taking it wrong. I'm not rejecting your feelings. In fact I can only to some degree assume what your feelings are.

I can only deal with my own feelings. My father was a rapist. I've never raped anyone. I'll accept there is a lot of smoke, but until I see something burning, I can't be certain where the fire is.

I don't know Trump well enough to judge. Maybe if I was in the thick of it, I'd agree with you, maybe not. I don't know.

It's just easy if you've already accepted someone as a racist to see racial motivation in every action.

Feelings don't matter a lot except to the person feeling them. What matters IMO is how folks treat each other.

I can think you're a **********, sorry been watching too much Deadwood, but still treat you fairly.

If I treat you fairly, does it matter how I personally feel about you? IMO it does not.

So maybe Trump is anti semitic, maybe not. Maybe he really thinks his son in law is a **********. Well people feel what they feel. Not much IMO can be done about that. Still if he treats his son in law decently, that's a good thing.

Shad said:

The rational I have heard is similar to that of divine inspiration authorship of the Bible, use of Assyria and Babylon to punish Israel and the various battles during the Kingdom and Conquest periods in which God took a more active part. If I remember correctly God in a battle for Israel caused an army of 20k to flee from no more than 300 (memory is foggy my numbers could be off) Israelite (again memory could be still Hebrews)

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Yes, when ancient Israel was God's nation he certainly backed them up militarily.....but that was when Israel was a dedicated nation that occupied its own God-given land. Its military actions were always in defense of that land and when Israel obeyed God, he backed them up. But when Israel left their land, God's backing of them appeared to stop.

God's prophets had warned Israel concerning the approaching "Day of God the Almighty".

For fleshly Israel, there was little for God to bless, so he just allowed the nation to go her own way until the coming of their Messiah.

According to Jesus, God could no longer tolerate Israel's failure to be corrected and he cast them off as his people. (Matthew 23:37-39) The last straw came when they murdered their own Messiah.

Read Matthew 21:33-45......the last verses read....
"Jesus said to them [Jewish Leaders]: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. 44 Also, the person falling on this stone will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.”
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his illustrations, they knew that he was speaking about them."

Jesus left them in no doubt that the fleshly nation of Israel were no longer in God's plans....so the US's support of them is in vain IMV. Their money and faith is wasted.

Shad said:

I do not think it is about favour (in their minds) but a mistaken belief of one's role within prophecy.

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Exactly...and it betrays a kind of 'Christianity' that was never taught by Jesus.

Shad said:

do not know if you ascribe to the idea of Israel's reestablishment in 48 as a prophecy but that is part of the viewpoint for many.

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No, I don't.....for all the reasons just stated. Jesus said that salvation 'originated with the Jews', but the scriptures say that it did not end with them. The literal "Holy Land" is so polluted with blood, that God no longer regards it as holy. (Isaiah 1:15)

Israel of the Book of Revelation is seen as the current nation rather than a spiritual idea of Israel as a group of people. So for some not supporting Israel is due to the former would be seen as going against prophecy. Toss in an interpretation of the wars within the Book of Revelation include wars against the current nation-state of Israeli.

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The "Israel" of Revelation is not literal Israel....how could it be? The apostle Paul identified "spiritual" Israel calling the congregation of both Jewish and Gentile Christians..."the Israel of God". (Galatians 6:16; Romans 2:28-29)

2 Peter 3:1-14 says...."But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.
11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat! 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace."

I do not see fleshly Israel carrying out "holy acts of conduct" or "deeds of Godly devotion"...do you? They are not "spotless" or "in peace" because of failing to accept the corrections offered to them all through their history. They had it all, but lost it by continued disobedience. They are good at performing meaningless rituals but not in obeying the weightier matters of the law, as Jesus said. (Matthew 23:23-24)
Such a pity...but a good lesson.