I think I will reply to you two, together, but it is more rebuttal to Enoch07.
Yet your argument is equally pathetic and weak, which you even admit. You are just as guilty as the theist you are judging.
In my opinion it's a strong argument because you're pushing the problem further back. You're not really getting rid of the problem entirely. So you can say an alien kid made the experiment or a metaphysical dragon barfed it out. But, who made them? So, at some point you have to get to the very first Cause. The Cause that was not caused by anything else.
The argument for the “First Cause” as “intentional” design or creation of the universe, by some eternal beings - is a very weak, because it is often based on wishful thinking, circular reasoning and a whole lot of “what-if”.
Why is there needs to be “WHO” in all this?
Previously, people thought the winds, rains, tides and storms, the movements of the sun and moon, or the belief in stars were falling, were all the doings of some gods or spirits, for example in OT Job 38 to 41, which perpetrated such superstitions.
These are superstitious beliefs, and they are nothing more than that, “superstition”.
Again in Job, as well as in Genesis 1 to 3, such scriptures have no basis in logic, evidences or reality; such belief only perpetuate by ignorance and fear, which are the roots of all superstitions.
It is through science that we know what are rain and wind, and what cause it, something that the bible could never explain, except to make false assumptions that God did it. It is the same with tides and storm, and as with the sun and moon, science is able to explain, which religions failed to do.
How do explain that everything god supposedly said in Job 38, 39, 40 and 41, wrong and false information.
And none of what science were able to explain about natural evidences, requiring any god, spirit or some sorts magic or miracles.
For example, let’s pick rain.
It is in science that we learn that warm moisture (due to precipitation) in the air cool down enough to cause condensation, it turn air into liquid.
How simple is that?
Explanation that is natural, and factual, without requiring god’s direction.
And going further, when the moist air encounter much colder air, it can turn air either as ice, hence you get hail, or crystallised that you would get snow flake, hence snowfall.
But in Job 38:22-23, God claimed he keeps snow and hail in separate storehouses:
“Job 38:22-23” said:
22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,
or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
for the day of battle and war?
Sorry, but do you always see snow or hail in time of battles or wars? And “in time of trouble”, that could mean anything, and often I don’t see hail or snow. There no correlations between trouble/battles and hail or snow.
And are there really storehouses?
So what in the hell is god or the author of Job talking about?
And in another passage, it referred to binding of the Pleiades in chain, and loosing the cord of Orion (Job 38:31).
Neither Pleiades, nor Orion real people, and the constellations are only patterns that we see on Earth, and ancient people tell fanciful stories about these constellations, but they are myths.
So why would God even talk of these constellations, alluding to myths that don’t even come from Hebrew sources?
It paint colourful pictures about nature, poetically, but it is just plain false, with no scientific values.
And there are whole bunches of them in 4 chapters in Job, in which god give no real factual information about nature. It give false information about thunder and lightning, nor do it explain anything about what causes earthquakes, or how trees grow.
And the silliest thing about the story of Job is that it is God himself sprouting these nonsensical superstitions.
Why do some Christians, particularly those who called themselves “creationists”, insist that everything said in the bible are true?
But going back to my points. A lot of nature that were misunderstood by ancient people, and people in science have long since dispelled these superstitions and supernatural, just by studying nature without these religious preconceptions.
And yet Creationism still survive to this day, because creationists cannot bother to learn science.
There is no WHO doing things about the universe, and it seemed strange that you both persist there is one, when you cannot back them with logic, evidences and the reality of nature. You both still insisting on the supernatural.
