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In the beginning

Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

What is ‘the heavens’ and what is ‘the earth’?

I’m pretty sure it’s not what most people think.

Jeremiah 4:22-25
22"My people are fools; they do not know me. They are senseless children; they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil; they know not how to do good." 23I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. 24I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking; all the hills were swaying. 25I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.

‘Heavens’ and ‘earth’ must have some deeper meaning. I won’t even get into the ‘mountains’, the ‘hills’, and the ‘birds’.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Gerry said:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

What is ‘the heavens’ and what is ‘the earth’?

I’m pretty sure it’s not what most people think.

Jeremiah 4:22-25
22"My people are fools; they do not know me. They are senseless children; they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil; they know not how to do good." 23I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. 24I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking; all the hills were swaying. 25I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.

‘Heavens’ and ‘earth’ must have some deeper meaning. I won’t even get into the ‘mountains’, the ‘hills’, and the ‘birds’.
Click to expand...


Fools. They don't know me. They only know evil. I looked in them for some sign between good and evil (like the tree) but (their soul) was empty. I looked everywhere (for signed of goodness). They are isolated that no creation was their company.

It shows how people who don't have god are lost (no birds), empty (formless), and by metaphor its trying to find in them good (heavens/god) and balanced by evil (evil/sin). But there is no good in them, nothing. Their light/soul/nature is gone.

These are analogies to show the current condition of sinners who haven't awakened to god.

That's how I read it.
 
Buddha Dharma

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
Gerry said:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

What is ‘the heavens’ and what is ‘the earth’?

I’m pretty sure it’s not what most people think.

Jeremiah 4:22-25
22"My people are fools; they do not know me. They are senseless children; they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil; they know not how to do good." 23I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. 24I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking; all the hills were swaying. 25I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.

‘Heavens’ and ‘earth’ must have some deeper meaning. I won’t even get into the ‘mountains’, the ‘hills’, and the ‘birds’.
Click to expand...

Some food for thought here @Gerry. It has occurred to me before now that no ancient peoples really believed in creation ex nihilo. I would venture to speculate that includes Jews. It may not now, but I'm talking about the ancient Jews from when this was written.

Creation ex nihilo seems to have been considered by the ancients and rejected as an impossibility. I base this on my studies of pagan philosophy. Epicurus summed up the ancient understanding well: nothing comes from nothing.

Although, it is a question of who he was stating this against, if Jews didn't hold the belief. Maybe the Zoroastrians? Perhaps he was throwing the possibility of creation ex nihilo and refuting the idea.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Gerry said:
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

What is ‘the heavens’ and what is ‘the earth’?

I’m pretty sure it’s not what most people think.

Jeremiah 4:22-25
22"My people are fools; they do not know me. They are senseless children; they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil; they know not how to do good." 23I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone. 24I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking; all the hills were swaying. 25I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.

‘Heavens’ and ‘earth’ must have some deeper meaning. I won’t even get into the ‘mountains’, the ‘hills’, and the ‘birds’.
Click to expand...

There are many degrees of existence and hidden and manifest worlds. Abdul'baha has offered this;

"Praise be to God Who hath ever caused His Names and Attributes to penetrate the degrees of existence; Who hath made the effects of those Names and Attributes to shine resplendent and their signs to be firmly established in both the hidden and manifest worlds."

You may enjoy reading "The Tablet of the Universe" by Abdul'baha - Tablet of the Universe

It is a detailed account of Creation both Spiritual an Material.

Regards Tony
 
WalterTrull

WalterTrull

Godfella
Ah yes. Firmament time. Ever notice Heaven and heaven? Earth is the image. Heaven is the projector. All in and under God of course. "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven." Very, very cool. Also comforting.
 
Last edited:
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
heaven is where God resides.....
Someone had to be first.....so....He gets to 'form' as He pleases
we get to ask how?.....when we get there

in the meantime....we have this life in the material......earth
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
heaven is where God resides.....
Someone had to be first.....so....He gets to 'form' as He pleases
we get to ask how?.....when we get there

in the meantime....we have this life in the material......earth
Click to expand...

But that raises problematic questions for me.
I think most people agree that ‘heaven is where God resides’.

So, where did God reside prior to his creation of ‘heaven and earth’.?

This is why a literal reading of Genesis raises far too many questions for me.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Gerry said:
But that raises problematic questions for me.
I think most people agree that ‘heaven is where God resides’.

So, where did God reside prior to his creation of ‘heaven and earth’.?

This is why a literal reading of Genesis raises far too many questions for me.
Click to expand...
yeah....and that one question most urging....
HOW do you say .....I AM!.....?
before there is ANY 'form' of affirmation

that is the question I will ask
how! did You (the Creator).......realize your own existence
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
yeah....and that one question most urging....
HOW do you say .....I AM!.....?
before there is ANY 'form' of affirmation

that is the question I will ask
how! did You (the Creator).......realize your own existence
Click to expand...

But the creator was not created.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
sunrise123 said:
From a non-Christian perspective "heavens" are the higher planes of consciousness and the "earth" is the "gross/physical" plane.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing the Ancients didn't think of it that way. Heaven was straight up if the Tower of Babel was any indication.
 
WalterTrull

WalterTrull

Godfella
Our conceptual problem always seems to be with time. If you can see time as structure rather than a passing, then God is, we are, and "in the beginning" refers to the root of the structure.
 
Truthseeker

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
In the passage by Jeremiah earth stands for knowledge from their religion, they got no knowledge from it. The heavens stand for the light from the religion, they got no light from it.
 
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