When did the disciples receive the holy Spirit?

74x12 · Feb 23, 2018

Some say it was John 20:22:
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

But others argue that it can't be because Jesus told them:

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49)

Which they did and received the holy Spirit in Acts 2:1-4.

Acts 2:1-4
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice Jesus breathed on them while He was still in the flesh. Yet, it was after Jesus had "ascended up far above all heavens that He might fill all things" that His actual spiritual breath came. This is the "sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind" was. It was Jesus Divine Breath finally arriving.

Grandliseur · Feb 23, 2018

74x12 said:
Some say it was John 20:22:
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

But others argue that it can't be because Jesus told them:

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49)

Which they did and received the holy Spirit in Acts 2:1-4.

Acts 2:1-4
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice Jesus breathed on them while He was still in the flesh. Yet, it was after Jesus had "ascended up far above all heavens that He might fill all things" that His actual spiritual breath came. This is the "sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind" was. It was Jesus Divine Breath finally arriving.

First, the question is more complex than many understand. Let me give you the basics. There is the general holy spirit of God which has always been operating for and in God's servants; there came something new, the spirit of Christ which was sent out in the name of Christ at Pentecost to come upon his disciples.

When Jesus during his sojourn sent out his disciples with the command to among other things heal, they clearly could only do this by means of the holy spirit, but not by Christ spirit for it had not come yet. Thus, Jesus had his Father give them the general holy spirit by which the accomplished miracles.

Luke 9:1 And he called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staff, nor wallet, nor bread, nor money; neither have two coats. 4 And into whatsoever house ye enter, there abide, and thence depart. 5 And as many as receive you not, when ye depart from that city, shake off the dust from your feet for a testimony against them. 6 And they departed, and went throughout the villages, preaching the gospel, and healing everywhere.

This, again, was not by the holy spirit sent out in the name of Christ which was first given on Pentecost.

For more details, look here:

Truth Seeker - The Helper
The general holy spirit: Truth Seeker - Spirit

74x12 · Feb 23, 2018

Grandliseur said:
First, the question is more complex than many understand. Let me give you the basics. There is the general holy spirit of God which has always been operating for and in God's servants; there came something new, the spirit of Christ which was sent out in the name of Christ at Pentecost to come upon his disciples.

When Jesus during his sojourn sent out his disciples with the command to among other things heal, they clearly could only do this by means of the holy spirit, but not by Christ spirit for it had not come yet. Thus, Jesus had his Father give them the general holy spirit by which the accomplished miracles.

Luke 9:1 And he called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staff, nor wallet, nor bread, nor money; neither have two coats. 4 And into whatsoever house ye enter, there abide, and thence depart. 5 And as many as receive you not, when ye depart from that city, shake off the dust from your feet for a testimony against them. 6 And they departed, and went throughout the villages, preaching the gospel, and healing everywhere.
This, again, was not by the holy spirit sent out in the name of Christ which was first given on Pentecost.

For more details, look here:

Truth Seeker - The Helper
The general holy spirit: Truth Seeker - Spirit

I don't like to disagree with you, but it's obvious from scriptures that there is one Spirit in the church. If you're teaching that the church has two or more spirits then you must explain it in light of:

Ephesians 4:4-6
1 Corinthians 12:11-13

2 Corinthians 11:4 is even more emphatic because we are warned against receiving "another" spirit and "another" Jesus. We should only receive the holy Spirit alone; for He is the Spirit of Christ Jesus.
(*Disclaimer, I am definitely not saying you received another spirit. I'm only using this verse to emphasize how there is only one Spirit in the church according to scriptures and that there cannot be more than one.*)

Jesus Christ's Spirit is the holy Spirit and no other. On the day of Pentecost they were filled with the holy Spirit as it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4)

The word "Spirit" (Ruach) in the Hebrew is literally "wind" and by resemblance "breath" according to Strong's Hebrew dictionary. See here.

So when you read for example that the Spirit of God hovered on the face of the waters in Genesis. You're literally reading that the Wind(breath) of God was there. Putting this in light of how Jesus literally breathed on them and said receive ye the "holy Spirit". (John 20:22) Then it becomes pretty apparent that the holy Spirit is the breath(Ruach) of Jesus. In other words Jesus is God manifest and is breathing on them at that time physically with His earthly body. Yet as I said the actual Wind comes later on the day of Pentecost; after Jesus had obtained all power in heaven and earth. Showing Himself worthy to open that which was sealed through His own blood. Showing us that what Jesus did in the flesh. Breathing on them ... was really a rushing mighty Wind although it may have appeared ordinary enough at the time. So the power of God is manifest in Christ Jesus. And it teaches us patience so we know that when we wait we will receive. Although something begins small ... for God it will end up as something greater than we could think or imagine.

Grandliseur · Feb 24, 2018

74x12 said:
I don't like to disagree with you, but it's obvious from scriptures that there is one Spirit in the church. If you're teaching that the church has two or more spirits then you must explain it in light of:

Ephesians 4:4-6
1 Corinthians 12:11-13

2 Corinthians 11:4 is even more emphatic because we are warned against receiving "another" spirit and "another" Jesus. We should only receive the holy Spirit alone; for He is the Spirit of Christ Jesus.
(*Disclaimer, I am definitely not saying you received another spirit. I'm only using this verse to emphasize how there is only one Spirit in the church according to scriptures and that there cannot be more than one.*)

Jesus Christ's Spirit is the holy Spirit and no other. On the day of Pentecost they were filled with the holy Spirit as it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4)

The word "Spirit" (Ruach) in the Hebrew is literally "wind" and by resemblance "breath" according to Strong's Hebrew dictionary. See here.

So when you read for example that the Spirit of God hovered on the face of the waters in Genesis. You're literally reading that the Wind(breath) of God was there. Putting this in light of how Jesus literally breathed on them and said receive ye the "holy Spirit". (John 20:22) Then it becomes pretty apparent that the holy Spirit is the breath(Ruach) of Jesus. In other words Jesus is God manifest and is breathing on them at that time physically with His earthly body. Yet as I said the actual Wind comes later on the day of Pentecost; after Jesus had obtained all power in heaven and earth. Showing Himself worthy to open that which was sealed through His own blood. Showing us that what Jesus did in the flesh. Breathing on them ... was really a rushing mighty Wind although it may have appeared ordinary enough at the time. So the power of God is manifest in Christ Jesus. And it teaches us patience so we know that when we wait we will receive. Although something begins small ... for God it will end up as something greater than we could think or imagine.

I thought the links I provided more than adequately explained all things.

Is it true that -

Mary's conception was by holy spirit?
That Jesus himself resurrected and healed by means of the holy spirit?
that the prophets themselves spoke by holy spirit,
that God's holy spirit operated on the earth in Genesis chapter 1?
etc, etc.?

Matthew 10:5-7 . . .. These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not. 6But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And going, preach, saying: The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give.
John 20:22, ASV, And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit

Does this mean that God's holy spirit has always been present and operating on earth and God's holy people? Obviously, the answer is a resounding Yes.

What then does this mean?

John 7:39, Now this he said of the Spirit which they should receive, who believed in him: for as yet the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (DRC)

If then previously the holy spirit is seen to operate on the ones mentioned in the previous paragraph, has Jesus gone insane here? Is that your claim?
Instead, we see that the holy spirit coming in the name of Jesus, the Helper, the Comforter, is sent out at Pentecost. This, the spirit of Christ sent out by God in the name of Christ was also holy spirit but with a quality difference - namely, that it was given specifically from Pentecost to the disciples who received this only by the laying of hands, and by baptism after the apostles had died.

John 16:7, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the (1) Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.(1) Or Advocate ; Or Helper ; Gr Paraclete ) (ASV)

But, perhaps, not all can understand these detail. That is OK.

Rom 8:16, 17, The Spirit itself testifieth with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if we suffer with [him], that we may be glorified together. (Webster)

Acts 2:33, Having therefore been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which *ye* behold and hear. (Darby)
Rom 8:9, But *ye* are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed God's Spirit dwell in you; but if any one has not the Spirit of Christ *he* is not of him: (Darby)
C.
John 14:25-26, `These things I have spoken to you, remaining with you, 26and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you. (YLT)

The Comforter, the Helper, the Advocate, was sent out only at Pentecost to teach the saints all things. It did not exist before this moment.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

Anyway, if you cannot agree or understand, just live in Christ, a righteous life, that shall bring salvation.

Grandliseur · Feb 24, 2018

74x12 said:
I don't like to disagree with you, but it's obvious from scriptures that there is one Spirit in the church. If you're teaching that the church has two or more spirits then you must explain it in light of:

Ephesians 4:4-6
1 Corinthians 12:11-13

2 Corinthians 11:4 is even more emphatic because we are warned against receiving "another" spirit and "another" Jesus. We should only receive the holy Spirit alone; for He is the Spirit of Christ Jesus.
(*Disclaimer, I am definitely not saying you received another spirit. I'm only using this verse to emphasize how there is only one Spirit in the church according to scriptures and that there cannot be more than one.*)

Jesus Christ's Spirit is the holy Spirit and no other. On the day of Pentecost they were filled with the holy Spirit as it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:4)

The word "Spirit" (Ruach) in the Hebrew is literally "wind" and by resemblance "breath" according to Strong's Hebrew dictionary. See here.

So when you read for example that the Spirit of God hovered on the face of the waters in Genesis. You're literally reading that the Wind(breath) of God was there. Putting this in light of how Jesus literally breathed on them and said receive ye the "holy Spirit". (John 20:22) Then it becomes pretty apparent that the holy Spirit is the breath(Ruach) of Jesus. In other words Jesus is God manifest and is breathing on them at that time physically with His earthly body. Yet as I said the actual Wind comes later on the day of Pentecost; after Jesus had obtained all power in heaven and earth. Showing Himself worthy to open that which was sealed through His own blood. Showing us that what Jesus did in the flesh. Breathing on them ... was really a rushing mighty Wind although it may have appeared ordinary enough at the time. So the power of God is manifest in Christ Jesus. And it teaches us patience so we know that when we wait we will receive. Although something begins small ... for God it will end up as something greater than we could think or imagine.

I hope you read the prior posts.

If God gives me life, whose life do I say it is? I say, 'my life' though God gave it to me.
We are told that God has holy spirit which he gives to his servants, depending on his will. Some had the power to heal, resurrect, knowledge, and other gifts.
Here we are told that in Jesus' case he gave him a portion of his Holy Spirit to call his own, Christ's spirit, and that this was poured on the disciples at Pentecost in the name of Jesus, that this spirit of Jesus was given a name, even said to be 'he', the Helper, the Comforter, the Advocate.

So, while it is Jesus' spirit by virtue of God having given it to him to use in this special fashion, it still came from God. It is however having a quality that the General Holy Spirit does not have. What quality? The General Holy Spirit in not Jesus' but God's. Its usage also differs.

If you cannot understand this, don't worry. Just live a righteous life in Jesus.

Kenny · Feb 24, 2018

74x12 said:
Some say it was John 20:22:
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

But others argue that it can't be because Jesus told them:

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49)

Which they did and received the holy Spirit in Acts 2:1-4.

Acts 2:1-4
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice Jesus breathed on them while He was still in the flesh. Yet, it was after Jesus had "ascended up far above all heavens that He might fill all things" that His actual spiritual breath came. This is the "sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind" was. It was Jesus Divine Breath finally arriving.

Acutally, there is a difference between the two (and even three) stated moments.

In John they received the Holy Spirit for salvation. At that moment they were born again and the Holy Spirit was united with theirs.

In Luke (Acts 1&2) they received the power of the Holy Spirit (not the presence of the Holy Spirit) which happened again a few chapters later in a fresh outpouring.

Truthseeker · Feb 24, 2018

74x12 said:
Some say it was John 20:22:
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

But others argue that it can't be because Jesus told them:

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. (Luke 24:49)

Which they did and received the holy Spirit in Acts 2:1-4.

Acts 2:1-4
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Notice Jesus breathed on them while He was still in the flesh. Yet, it was after Jesus had "ascended up far above all heavens that He might fill all things" that His actual spiritual breath came. This is the "sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind" was. It was Jesus Divine Breath finally arriving.

This should tell you that in some particulars there are contradictions between the different gospels. The Bible isn't perfect, at places the history it invokes can be wrong. But as far as the teachings go, it is sure handle for the believer.

allright · Feb 24, 2018

In John Jesus gave the Holy Spirit with the limited authority he had on earth
"that you may know the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sin"

When he returned to Heaven and was glorified he gave the Holy Spirit in full power.
"It is better for you if I leave for I will send the Comforter"

74x12 · Feb 24, 2018

Truthseeker9 said:
This should tell you that in some particulars there are contradictions between the different gospels. The Bible isn't perfect, at places the history it invokes can be wrong. But as far as the teachings go, it is sure handle for the believer.

No it shouldn't. It should on the other hand impress you with the Divinity of Christ and how much greater power He has than many believe.

74x12 · Feb 24, 2018

allright said:
In John Jesus gave the Holy Spirit with the limited authority he had on earth
"that you may know the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sin"

When he returned to Heaven and was glorified he gave the Holy Spirit in full power.
"It is better for you if I leave for I will send the Comforter"

He gave power yes, but not the indwelling of the holy Spirit. Before the day of Pentecost the holy Spirit indwelling was only for prophets. This is why Moses wished that all Israel would have the holy Spirit and not just the prophets. Moses got his wish when Joel prophesied that in the last days God would indeed pour out His Spirit on all flesh. Not just the prophets. This began on the day of Pentecost with those who Jesus had breathed on and they did receive His breath which came as a rushing mighty Wind.

74x12 · Feb 24, 2018

KenS said:
Acutally, there is a difference between the two (and even three) stated moments.

In John they received the Holy Spirit for salvation. At that moment they were born again and the Holy Spirit was united with theirs.

In Luke (Acts 1&2) they received the power of the Holy Spirit (not the presence of the Holy Spirit) which happened again a few chapters later in a fresh outpouring.

No there is no difference. The Wind on the day of Pentecost was the breath of Jesus.

74x12 · Feb 24, 2018

Grandliseur said:
I thought the links I provided more than adequately explained all things.

Is it true that -

Mary's conception was by holy spirit?
That Jesus himself resurrected and healed by means of the holy spirit?
that the prophets themselves spoke by holy spirit,
that God's holy spirit operated on the earth in Genesis chapter 1?
etc, etc.?

Matthew 10:5-7 . . .. These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not. 6But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And going, preach, saying: The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give.
John 20:22, ASV, And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit

Does this mean that God's holy spirit has always been present and operating on earth and God's holy people? Obviously, the answer is a resounding Yes.

What then does this mean?

John 7:39, Now this he said of the Spirit which they should receive, who believed in him: for as yet the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (DRC)
If then previously the holy spirit is seen to operate on the ones mentioned in the previous paragraph, has Jesus gone insane here? Is that your claim?
Instead, we see that the holy spirit coming in the name of Jesus, the Helper, the Comforter, is sent out at Pentecost. This, the spirit of Christ sent out by God in the name of Christ was also holy spirit but with a quality difference - namely, that it was given specifically from Pentecost to the disciples who received this only by the laying of hands, and by baptism after the apostles had died.

John 16:7, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the (1) Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.(1) Or Advocate ; Or Helper ; Gr Paraclete ) (ASV)
But, perhaps, not all can understand these detail. That is OK.

Rom 8:16, 17, The Spirit itself testifieth with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if we suffer with [him], that we may be glorified together. (Webster)

Acts 2:33, Having therefore been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which *ye* behold and hear. (Darby)
Rom 8:9, But *ye* are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed God's Spirit dwell in you; but if any one has not the Spirit of Christ *he* is not of him: (Darby)
C.
John 14:25-26, `These things I have spoken to you, remaining with you, 26and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you. (YLT)
The Comforter, the Helper, the Advocate, was sent out only at Pentecost to teach the saints all things. It did not exist before this moment.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

Anyway, if you cannot agree or understand, just live in Christ, a righteous life, that shall bring salvation.

I think what you're talking about is the difference in power. So in the old Testament the prophets were all filled with the holy Spirit yet they did not have the power that came through the cross alone. This power of resurrection gives a born again experience. This was not in the old Testament. But in the new Testament it is there thanks to the cross. Yet, He is the same Spirit and that's all there is to it. He did indeed exist as we see that the prophets of old spoke by the "Spirit of Christ" who was in them. (1 Peter 1:11) So, the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of the old Testament and is the holy Spirit and no other. The power of the cross gives us new strength and new power that the prophets did not have yet. However through the same Spirit. As Joel prophesied in the last days God would pour the holy Spirit out on all flesh and not just the prophets.

While Jesus was in the world He was the Light of the world. While He was present He would not give out the holy Spirit(except to John the baptist the last true prophet) and people simply came to Jesus for Light. This is why so many people left everything to follow Jesus(literally) around. They did not want to be without His presence. He was the presence of God on earth. However, He did give His disciples power and authority but not the actual indwelling of the Spirit yet.

Kenny · Feb 24, 2018

74x12 said:
No there is no difference. The Wind on the day of Pentecost was the breath of Jesus.

So why did he say "wait until you receive the Holy Spirit" if they had alread received Him?

74x12 · Feb 24, 2018

KenS said:
So why did he say "wait until you receive the Holy Spirit" if they had alread received Him?

They hadn't received Him yet. Jesus' actual breath didn't come until the day of Pentecost. It's like when Jesus said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood ... etc. He explained His words as being spiritual. The point is when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the holy Spirit; this was finally fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. There came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind. I'm trying to point out that this Wind is Jesus' breath finally arriving. The Hebrew word for Spirit is Ruach and literally means wind as in one's wind/breath. In Greek the word translated as Spirit also means wind and breath. So, we have a clear connection here between Jesus breathing on them and the "wind" finally coming on the day of Pentecost.

Kenny · Feb 24, 2018

74x12 said:
They hadn't received Him yet. Jesus' actual breath didn't come until the day of Pentecost. It's like when Jesus said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood ... etc. He explained His words as being spiritual. The point is when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the holy Spirit; this was finally fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. There came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind. I'm trying to point out that this Wind is Jesus' breath finally arriving. The Hebrew word for Spirit is Ruach and literally means wind as in one's wind/breath. In Greek the word translated as Spirit also means wind and breath. So, we have a clear connection here between Jesus breathing on them and the "wind" finally coming on the day of Pentecost.

I dont think so. He blew on them... it was a done deal

74x12 · Feb 24, 2018

KenS said:
I dont think so. He blew on them... it was a done deal

How can you reconcile your opinion with this verse?

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

Kenny · Feb 25, 2018

74x12 said:
How can you reconcile your opinion with this verse?
(John 16:7)

Obviously the Holy Spirit has been on the earth before during all of time even as the Holy Spirit was in and with Jesus Christ. Scriptures mentioned about the Holy Spirit being on the earth are found countless time throughout the OT. So we have to look for context.

John 20:17 “Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Jesus had died, resurrected and then He then ascended to the Father to present the sacrifice. Having fulfilled the sacrifice, in the pattern that was given on the earth, He returned and showed Himself to His disciples. He had already left and came back.

The reaquirements for salvation is that you believe He was raised from the dead and confess HIm as Lord. As he entered through the door, both requirements were fulfilled and He said "receive the Holy Spirit" for the born-again experience - the Holy Spirit sent for salvation. However, the enduement of power (dunamis) was going to be given at Pentecost.

The pattern is also seen multiple times in the Book of Acts:

8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, andthe name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

You don't baptise people unless they are born again having received the Holy Spirit for the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 5 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

As with the Apostles, the dunamis of the Holy Spirit came after salvation.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.

Again, two distinct manifestations. The Holy Spirit given (John 3) for begin born again, and then an eduement of dunamis.

74x12 · Feb 25, 2018

KenS said:
Obviously the Holy Spirit has been on the earth before during all of time even as the Holy Spirit was in and with Jesus Christ. Scriptures mentioned about the Holy Spirit being on the earth are found countless time throughout the OT. So we have to look for context.

John 20:17 “Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Jesus had died, resurrected and then He then ascended to the Father to present the sacrifice. Having fulfilled the sacrifice, in the pattern that was given on the earth, He returned and showed Himself to His disciples. He had already left and came back.

The reaquirements for salvation is that you believe He was raised from the dead and confess HIm as Lord. As he entered through the door, both requirements were fulfilled and He said "receive the Holy Spirit" for the born-again experience - the Holy Spirit sent for salvation. However, the enduement of power (dunamis) was going to be given at Pentecost.

The pattern is also seen multiple times in the Book of Acts:

8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, andthe name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

You don't baptise people unless they are born again having received the Holy Spirit for the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 5 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

As with the Apostles, the dunamis of the Holy Spirit came after salvation.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve.

Again, two distinct manifestations. The Holy Spirit given (John 3) for begin born again, and then an eduement of dunamis.

You cannot be born again before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. The born again experience is through the death and resurrection of Christ. If you could already be born again and put your old life to death so that you may rise a new creation in Christ; then Christ died in vain and should have stayed alive because we didn't need His death for us to be born again into the body of Christ.

And the holy Spirit was not yet given. Because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Kenny · Feb 25, 2018

74x12 said:
You cannot be born again before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. The born again experience is through the death and resurrection of Christ. If you could already be born again and put your old life to death so that you may rise a new creation in Christ; then Christ died in vain and should have stayed alive because we didn't need His death for us to be born again into the body of Christ.

And the holy Spirit was not yet given. Because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

No... when Jesus appeared to the disciples, he had already died and was resurrectied. He also had already gone to the Father and was glorifed. Where does it say he wasn't?

74x12 · Feb 25, 2018

KenS said:
No... when Jesus appeared to the disciples, he had already died and was resurrectied. He also had already gone to the Father and was glorifed. Where does it say he wasn't?

Actually you're right. However, I still believe what other points I made.

When did the disciples receive the holy Spirit?

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