• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Sin of Denominationalism

C

CohenDavidson

Member
Scott C. said:
Yes and there are millions of Christians, from many denominations, who believe the Bible is clear, that there is one truth, and that they see that one truth. Yet in many cases their views contradict the views of other equallly certain Christians. Many of them quote chapter and verse from the Bible, claim that their interpretation is the one truth, and claim that the opposing interpretation is uninspired. Is there a denomination which you believe gets it right more than the rest?
Click to expand...
I don't believe any denomination gets it... A denomination in and of itself is condemned. I am a member of the church of Christ. We follow exactly what we see in the Bible. Noting else. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the head of the Church. So we are the church of Christ.. basically our heading is not like denominations. Our name literally means church that belongs to Christ because he bought the church with his blood. Therefore his name should be glorified. We follow exactly what the scriptures teach to the best of our ability when it comes to all matters such as salvation, worship, and everything else. Many have misconceptions and preconceived notions when our name is brought up, but we always try to bring the truth to the table and show how clear the Bible actualy is to understand despite great confusion caused by the devil.
 
C

CohenDavidson

Member
CohenDavidson said:
My age is besides the point. The Bible can be understood on an elementary level. It boils down to being able to objectively see the truth. The scriptures are clear on matter that are needful for one to be saved. The scriptures clearly state how one is saved, how one is to worship, if one is able to fall from grace, etc, but we still have false information floating around. John 8:31-32 says we are able to know the truth. If Jesus says that we are able to know the truth, then I believe him. Because the truth has been twisted and confused, many will be lost. Matthew 5:13-14. The point is that when people are presented with scripture that contradicts their point, they turn a blind eye, I have witnessed this first hand on many occasions when talking with others. I have no doubt that people are sincere, but it doesn't mean they will be saved. Matthew 7:21-22. I am not being harsh, I am just trying to spread the truth on the matter. I have done extensive study and want to help other find the truth! 2 Timothy 4:3-4 I am allowed to judge (tell others the truth), if the scriptures support my argument. John 7:24 By the way, I was very fortunate to grow up around very knowledgeable people. Through them I have been pointed in the right direction.
Click to expand...
 
Akivah

Akivah

Well-Known Member
CohenDavidson said:
ALL of the denominations have taken to or added to the word. ...Its hard, but you can rule out all of the churches that do not do what the Bible says, this is pretty much all of them. The devil is clever. He has created these denominations to confuse the masses. We must find the first century church today.
Click to expand...

Given that the people that founded the first churches have been dead for over a thousand years, how do you know which is the only correct version? And how can you, but no others, know the correct version?

As a corollary, how can christianity be useful if the devil so easily has the vast majority worshiping the wrong way?
 
C

CohenDavidson

Member
Akivah said:
Given that the people that founded the first churches have been dead for over a thousand years, how do you know which is the only correct version? And how can you, but no others, know the correct version?

As a corollary, how can christianity be useful if the devil so easily has the vast majority worshiping the wrong way?
Click to expand...
That is a very good question. Both are. You can know which one is correct by how they align with how the church in the Bible worshiped and what they taught.
Second question... I am not really sure how to answer this. You cant say that just because the religious world is confused, that Christianity is useless and therefore void. Look at any sphere of persuasion, the truth becomes blinded. I would say that the devil is focusing his power in the confusion of the religious world. That is why we see this severe discord between those who believe the scriptures.
 
Rival

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Akivah said:
Given that the people that founded the first churches have been dead for over a thousand years, how do you know which is the only correct version? And how can you, but no others, know the correct version?

As a corollary, how can christianity be useful if the devil so easily has the vast majority worshiping the wrong way?
Click to expand...
Please tell me that his username kinda bothers you too :confused:
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
CohenDavidson said:
Today our society is filled with many "churches". Many uninspired men have started their own churches and put their own twist to it. Considering 1 Corinthians 1:10-17, this is wrong. Thoughts on the matter?
Click to expand...

I like what Paul said:

15 Though some are preaching Christ out of envy and competition, others do it out of a good heart:
16 These do it from love, conscious that I am responsible for the cause of the good news:
17 But those are preaching Christ in a spirit of competition, not from their hearts, but with the purpose of giving me pain in my prison.
18 What then? only that in every way, falsely or truly, the preaching of Christ goes on; and in this I am glad, and will be glad.

There are a lot of people who need the message of Jesus so I don't spend time arguing with my brother considering that he is still part of the body and is preaching Christ.

Reminds me of the man that the disciples demanded that he stop preaching because he wasn't with the group. Jesus didn't have a problem. The body is made up of different parts.
 
Phantasman

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
CohenDavidson said:
Exactly.. no division. When I said Paul was following what Jesus said, I was explaining how 1 Corinthians 1 and Matthew 16 connected.
Click to expand...
I think what the OP is addressing are the divisions of Christian religions. You and I are saying the same thing.

In truth, I have found that the non Canon Gospels edify the Canon Gospels and Paul over anything the OT, Hebrews and Revelations try to explain. It is the (catholic) Canon that is the sources of division, IMO. Trying to combine the Jews religion with the Gospel is like trying to combine oil and water.

Galatians 1:
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

To follow man (men's doctrines) is to follow division. The saints are the congregation, not individual men that men say they are. There is no minister (priest). We minister to one another, by the Spirit.

If a man follows a man, it is the same as the blind leading the blind.

IMO.

My point is, what you and I say are the same thing. The question becomes, is it seen in the heart as well?
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
CohenDavidson said:
I don't believe any denomination gets it... A denomination in and of itself is condemned. I am a member of the church of Christ. We follow exactly what we see in the Bible. Noting else. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the head of the Church. So we are the church of Christ.. basically our heading is not like denominations. Our name literally means church that belongs to Christ because he bought the church with his blood. Therefore his name should be glorified. We follow exactly what the scriptures teach to the best of our ability when it comes to all matters such as salvation, worship, and everything else. Many have misconceptions and preconceived notions when our name is brought up, but we always try to bring the truth to the table and show how clear the Bible actualy is to understand despite great confusion caused by the devil.
Click to expand...

Actually, Mr Davidson, this looks very dangerous to me on multiple accounts:

1) You are doing the judging when God is the judge and since the Body of Christ belongs to Christ, shouldn't you let Jesus take care of it?
2) A body has different names but it is the same body
3) You may be calling a good denomination evil when God said you shouldn't "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
4) Gal 5:15 You must not keep on biting each other. You must not keep eating each other up. Watch out! You might destroy each other.
5) I believe it says "pray for your brother" not "speak evil of your brother"
 
Phantasman

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Akivah said:
Given that the people that founded the first churches have been dead for over a thousand years, how do you know which is the only correct version? And how can you, but no others, know the correct version?

As a corollary, how can christianity be useful if the devil so easily has the vast majority worshiping the wrong way?
Click to expand...
The individual is the temple. It's where the Spirit is, lives. Not a building. Or a church.

The church in Christianity, has become what the Temple is in Judaism.This is what the orthodox teach. Orthodoxy was the division the Pharisee's created to be able to combine Judaism and Christianity. It is what Paul calls, the false gospel. Galatians 1

Paul speaks of this false gospel all through Galatians, and how Peter was falling for it. Galatians 2

It was stated by the Pharisee's (circumcised) to influence those believers Paul taught (uncircumcised). The Jews basically wanting their fathers influence on Christians. Paul explains the error of this gospel. The Jews hated Paul.

The early Christians saw this division. They called it "catholic", one god. The gnostics, Marcion, Valentinus, (seeing the Jews god different from the Father Christ taught of) followed Paul over the church of Rome, who reformed to catholic. (small c). Both sides prevailed and grew.

The division continued into the fourth century, and when Constantine wanted to stop killing Christians, he chose the church of Rome as the Empires religion. This was confirmed in 325AD when Arius (a non believer of the catholic trinity) was exiled, and the catholics became Romes church for the entire Empire. Later, at the second council, the Catholic (capital C) was the only church, and any belief of Christianity that did not believe as Catholic, their books were burned, and they were either exiled or executed.

The Bible was the creation of this Church and held all beliefs until the 1300, when the Bible was translated from Latin, Greek to English and German. During the time the Bible was held hostage by the Church as only being in Latin (800 years), were the Dark Ages of man, when he didn't progress at all.
 
Truthseeker

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
CohenDavidson said:
Today our society is filled with many "churches". Many uninspired men have started their own churches and put their own twist to it. Considering 1 Corinthians 1:10-17, this is wrong. Thoughts on the matter?
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with people having different opinions about the Bible. But they should not follow someone elses opinion, unless the opinion is by a Prophet of God. The most important thing is to follow the teachings of Christ. Denominations tend to put doctrine before that. The four Gospels should be the basis for a Christian. The letters afterward should be considered on their own merit, but not uncritically believed.

The Prophets of God have their own signs. Among them is how you respond to their Word. Does it bring you closer to God? The Word of God should not be weighed by your own opinion, or the opinion of any Church. You must put God before your own opinion.
 
C

CohenDavidson

Member
Truthseeker9 said:
There is nothing wrong with people having different opinions about the Bible. But they should not follow someone elses opinion, unless the opinion is by a Prophet of God. The most important thing is to follow the teachings of Christ. Denominations tend to put doctrine before that. The four Gospels should be the basis for a Christian. The letters afterward should be considered on their own merit, but not uncritically believed.

The Prophets of God have their own signs. Among them is how you respond to their Word. Does it bring you closer to God? The Word of God should not be weighed by your own opinion, or the opinion of any Church. You must put God before your own opinion.
Click to expand...
Yes, the truth is what matters. What God has said matters, not what what someone may feel or think. Its what the Bible says
 
C

CohenDavidson

Member
KenS said:
Actually, Mr Davidson, this looks very dangerous to me on multiple accounts:

1) You are doing the judging when God is the judge and since the Body of Christ belongs to Christ, shouldn't you let Jesus take care of it?
2) A body has different names but it is the same body
3) You may be calling a good denomination evil when God said you shouldn't "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
4) Gal 5:15 You must not keep on biting each other. You must not keep eating each other up. Watch out! You might destroy each other.
5) I believe it says "pray for your brother" not "speak evil of your brother"
Click to expand...
1- I am able to speak truth that the Bible supports. Judgment is permitted when error is being communicated. Matthew 7 John 7:24
2- As long as the name glorifies the founder. Names such as Baptist, Methodist, etc. do not do this... as well as doctrine error
3- A denomination by definition has already entered sin. A denomination is a man made church with a mere uninspired human founder. Jesus only created one church. He is the one founder. Ephesians 4:5 Ephesians 5:23 If there were more than one body that would make Jesus the same as a man that marries multiple wives. He would be a spiritual polygamist. Jesus is not that. He only married one church.
4- Not sure what you're saying
5-Im not speaking evil, I'm communicating the truth as we are commanded because false information exists. Matthew 28:19-20 1 John 4:1-3
 
Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
CohenDavidson said:
Division was not part of the setup. Christianity is not a form of Judaism. Its separate. The Bible does not support the idea of division. Many accounts in scripture speak of complete unity all aspects. Division in doctrine and method of salvation and worship is strictly condemned. Ephesians 4:4-7, 1 Timothy 6:3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Romans 16:17-18
Click to expand...

You are right....division was definitely NOT part of the original setup. Christianity was never meant to be a separate religion. Jesus did not come to start a new sect of Judaism.....he came to clean up what had been corrupted by the Scribes and Pharisees. He called what they taught "leaven"....something that 'corrupts' a whole batch of dough. (Matthew 16:6, 11, 12; Luke 12:1; 1 Corinthians 5:6)

If the Jews had accepted Jesus as Messiah, they would have shared in rulership in his heavenly kingdom, but because they lost the plot and stuck to "the traditions of men", they invalidated God's word and disqualified themselves from salvation. All of the first Christians were Jewish, as were all the Bible writers....and as soon as God had produced the Messiah (as he promised through Abraham's family of descendants,) his end of the covenant was fulfilled and he had no further legal obligation to support apostate Judaism. Jesus said that God had cast them off as his people. (Matthew 23:37-39; Matthew 21:33-46)

A new nation was called forth from among the Gentiles to fill up the numbers who would rule with Christ from heaven. (Acts 15:14)
But these cannot be the only Christians who will be saved. Those who go to heaven will be 'kings and priests' (Revelation 20:6) These will be resurrected "first" to form the government (kingdom) who will rule with Jesus as it says in Revelation 21:2-4.

Kings have to have subjects and priests have to have sinners for whom to perform their duties. Who do you think these are?
 
Last edited:
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
CohenDavidson said:
Division was not part of the setup. Christianity is not a form of Judaism. Its separate.
Click to expand...
That would still be division. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, a term that didn't come into being until long after he died. He was a Jew. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Islam is related to both. Judaism is the mother and Christianity and Islam are sibling offspring. Jesus wanted to reform Judaism. His apostles, even early on before Jesus ever died, show clear intentions to exclude people they don't like, even being chastised by Jesus for it at one point.

CohenDavidson said:
The Bible does not support the idea of division.
Click to expand...
That's why the Hebrews never broke away from the Canaanites, the group they hail from, in both ritual and theology and hypocritical xenophobia?

CohenDavidson said:
Division in doctrine and method of salvation and worship is strictly condemned. Ephesians 4:4-7, 1 Timothy 6:3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Romans 16:17-18
Click to expand...
I don't agree with Paul on anything except maybe "in Christ there is no male, female, etc, etc." I consider him a trojan horse virus designed to destroy the Way. Stoning them wasn't working. Might as well infiltrate the group and take it over. If there is to be no division, why does he clearly hate the actual apostles who hung out with Jesus?

CohenDavidson said:
The Bible is clear that we are to come to one conclusion especially on matter of salvation, worship, etc. Romans 16:17-18.
Click to expand...
But why do we HAVE to come to Paul's?

CohenDavidson said:
The early church agreed that we were to follow one truth.
Click to expand...
But the "Real Truth" is always more complicated than the forced simplistic "Truth" we are fed. The "Real Truth" would be more like natural ecology: diversity that balanced each other out in homeostasis. The eye cannot say to the hand it is not needed. If all are eyes, nothing gets heard. If all are ears, nothing gets seen. Only together can the body parts experience Truth.

CohenDavidson said:
The Bible can be understood on an elementary level. It boils down to being able to objectively see the truth.
Click to expand...
We cannot see it all. That's why we must be with people who see things differently, so the Big Picture will reveal itself. Our knowledge skyrocketed once we were able to have mass global communications.

CohenDavidson said:
The scriptures clearly state how one is saved, how one is to worship, if one is able to fall from grace, etc, but we still have false information floating around.
Click to expand...
Legalism and nitpicking was supposedly something Jesus was against, so it's strange when Christians do that very thing.

CohenDavidson said:
. John 8:31-32 says we are able to know the truth.
Click to expand...
Curious, because the gospels report Jesus as complaining his apostles are morons who aren't understanding him. So do they know the truth or not?

CohenDavidson said:
If Jesus says that we are able to know the truth, then I believe him
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as a Gospel of Jesus, at least in canon. We only have texts supposedly by the people Jesus claimed didn't understand him.

CohenDavidson said:
I have done extensive study and want to help other find the truth!
Click to expand...
Keep going. For all your study, you seem to be unaware of quite a bit.

CohenDavidson said:
I am a member of the church of Christ. We follow exactly what we see in the Bible. Noting else.
Click to expand...
That's terrible. The bible has mountains of inhuman moral advice.

CohenDavidson said:
Our name literally means church that belongs to Christ because he bought the church with his blood.
Click to expand...
Not everyone who calls out Jesus' name will be recognized as such. God can create butt-kissers out of rocks. Group identity doesn't save.

CohenDavidson said:
That is why we see this severe discord between those who believe the scriptures.
Click to expand...
If the consensus is to jump off a cliff, should we?

KenS said:
Reminds me of the man that the disciples demanded that he stop preaching because he wasn't with the group. Jesus didn't have a problem. The body is made up of different parts.
Click to expand...
Exactly. *hugs*

Truthseeker9 said:
There is nothing wrong with people having different opinions about the Bible. But they should not follow someone elses opinion, unless the opinion is by a Prophet of God.
Click to expand...
And even then.

CohenDavidson said:
What God has said matters, not what what someone may feel or think. Its what the Bible says
Click to expand...
The bible says what the author felt or thought God wanted.

CohenDavidson said:
2- As long as the name glorifies the founder. Names such as Baptist, Methodist, etc. do not do this... as well as doctrine error
Click to expand...
The Satanist Temple has lately been doing more moral things than many Christians who seek the shallowest form of praise from Jesus.

CohenDavidson said:
A denomination is a man made church with a mere uninspired human founder. Jesus only created one church. He is the one founder.
Click to expand...
And human. Don't commit the bible's mistake of being defeated by your own logic. If humans can't be trusted and humans wrote the bible, the bible cannot be trusted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top