Left Hand Path?

ExVasterist · Feb 13, 2018

Just curious as to why some beliefs are referred to as "The Left Hand Path".
Also, I assume this has nothing to do with Left Hand Dominant people, and finally, what is considered "Right Hand Path"? Just thinking you can't have the left with out the right.

Mindmaster · Feb 13, 2018

ExVasterist said:
Just curious as to why some beliefs are referred to as "The Left Hand Path".
Also, I assume this has nothing to do with Left Hand Dominant people, and finally, what is considered "Right Hand Path"? Just thinking you can't have the left with out the right.

Left-hand path and right-hand path - Wikipedia

In essence, it is an arbitrary classification to some extent. At this juncture, it is more accurate to consider the left hand path as sort of sub-culture of ideas that are unconventional or taboo in relation to society. These ideas encompass many other ideas such as religious practices or magic ritual, individualism, or other points of philosophy or psychology. Because of this, rarely will you find someone practicing left hand path ideology solely delimiting their experience by one prevailing religious or philosophical system. They are more likely to partake of several complimentary ideas and fashion their own - this, in essence, is the core idea of the left handed path.

The problem, of course, is it is easy to use such ideas to buttress up your own depravity and self-defeating tendencies. It can be just like inviting a fat guy to an "all you can eat" buffet that never runs out of food. Thus, this is the primary vice or failure that such a path can lead you to - you can take the freedom gained and fashion yourself to be a slave to addictions or other unproductive acts that ultimately ruin you. In response to that, most left hand path practitioners are invested in self-mastery to overt this conundrum. The end goal of course is something akin to being one's own ultimate individual self - free of false morality, worthless idealism, or adherence to the conventions of society/religion and existing according to ones own nature and need.

Liu · Feb 13, 2018

@Mindmaster already described it quite well, but since I recently answered that question in another thread:

Liu said:
The term has a slightly complicated history, but in short:
It comes from the Sanskrit word of that same meaning which basically referred to heterodox approaches to spirituality, e.g. some forms of Tantra. Some westeners then in the 19th and early 20th century used it in their books on religions and basically equated it with their de-facto Christian concepts of Satanism. Then, it was taken up by Anton LaVey in the 60s in his Satanic Bible as a self-designation. From then it has developed so many different meanings/implications that many LHPers consider it basically meaningless, but it's a useful umbrella-term for Satanism, Setianism, Discordianism, chaos magick, etc.

Onyx · Feb 13, 2018

In the end, these are largely ill-defined terms, but the distinction I might make is:

Right-Hand Path: Working to sacrifice selfhood in an attempt to belong to something greater.

Left-Hand Path: Working to build selfhood in an attempt to remain a seperate individual and become greater yourself.

In either case, it's not about good/evil but rather the paradigm one chooses to work within to achieve their goals. There tends to be some overlap though, and sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't dispense with the terms altogether.

But as already indicated, it's basically an umbrella-term for non-conventional, self-directed approaches to religion - probably better to be more specific.

1137 · Feb 13, 2018

Another little cheat is

RHP: thy will be done

LHP: my will be done

EtuMalku · Feb 13, 2018

ExVasterist said:
Just curious as to why some beliefs are referred to as "The Left Hand Path".
Also, I assume this has nothing to do with Left Hand Dominant people, and finally, what is considered "Right Hand Path"? Just thinking you can't have the left with out the right.

The Western Left Hand Defined

Liu · Feb 14, 2018

Onyx said:
In the end, these are largely ill-defined terms, but the distinction I might make is:

Right-Hand Path: Working to sacrifice selfhood in an attempt to belong to something greater.

Left-Hand Path: Working to build selfhood in an attempt to remain a seperate individual and become greater yourself.

In either case, it's not about good/evil but rather the paradigm one chooses to work within to achieve their goals. There tends to be some overlap though, and sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't dispense with the terms altogether.

But as already indicated, it's basically an umbrella-term for non-conventional, self-directed approaches to religion - probably better to be more specific.

And the distinction I would make would be different again.
I consider myself an LHPer even though I'm a pantheist believing myself to already be a manifestation of "something greater".

Semantics...

So, for me it means, among other things:
RHP: Subscribing to a pre-defined moral system.
LHP: Basing your morals on your own, scrutinized, convictions, or being amoral.

EtuMalku · Feb 14, 2018

Liu said:
I consider myself an LHPer even though I'm a pantheist believing myself to already be a manifestation of "something greater".

Semantics...

I would entitle that 'Eastern LHP' not 'Western LHP'. Cannot be semantics as ELHP & WLHP are diametrically opposed to one another.

Mindmaster · Feb 14, 2018

1137 said:
Another little cheat is

RHP: thy will be done

LHP: my will be done

I generally avoid this because it is hard to quantify what will is...

It's possible your will is actually reflexive conditioning and programmed responses.

It's also possible that no matter what your will is, your destiny is on rails. (aka karma)

It's possible that it could be your will to serve a higher power through devotion.

Especially on that last statement, it makes it impossible to separate them via that comparison.

Liu · Feb 15, 2018

EtuMalku said:
I would entitle that 'Eastern LHP' not 'Western LHP'. Cannot be semantics as ELHP & WLHP are diametrically opposed to one another.

Your form of WHLP might be, but not the WHLP in general - the Gnostics even wanna merge back into the Pleiroma/Ain Soph Aur, I don't, at least not permanently, I consider this pluralistic manifesting of the divine quite neat.
It's semantics because we seem to come to our different definitions due to our metaphysical assumptions regarding the cosmos, objective/subjective reality, the divine, etc.

Or would you call Gnostic Satanists ELHP, or RHP?

I admittedly do see a lot of parallels between my beliefs and e.g. some forms of Shaivism, but not only did I reach at least my general worldview without much eastern influence, I in any case don't consider this dichotomy between western and eastern LHP valid as both western and eastern LHPers may differ among each other in their metaphysics and spiritual goals more than these two categories in general need to differ.

Mindmaster said:
It's possible that it could be your will to serve a higher power through devotion.

Especially on that last statement, it makes it impossible to separate them via that comparison.

This.
Or, you could be a devotee of the deity of the individual will, which arguably is true for quite a lot of LHPers, in which case doing your will and doing the will of the divine is the same, or you could consider your own will even a direct manifestation of the divine, which makes the question of separation invalid as well.

EtuMalku · Feb 15, 2018

isUOTE="Liu, post: 5499326, member: 56713"]Your form of WHLP might be, but not the WHLP in general - the Gnostics even wanna merge back into the Pleiroma/Ain Soph Aur, I don't, at least not permanently, I consider this pluralistic manifesting of the divine quite neat.
It's semantics because we seem to come to our different definitions due to our metaphysical assumptions regarding the cosmos, objective/subjective reality, the divine, etc.

Or would you call Gnostic Satanists ELHP, or RHP?

I admittedly do see a lot of parallels between my beliefs and e.g. some forms of Shaivism, but not only did I reach at least my general worldview without much eastern influence, I in any case don't consider this dichotomy between western and eastern LHP valid as both western and eastern LHPers may differ among each other in their metaphysics and spiritual goals more than these two categories in general need to differ.[/QUOTE]
The stance taken by the Herald of the Dawn would be that Gnosticism is a RHP system as is Shaivism. However, I do admit our undertsanding and faith may be unique and possibly not the LHP shared by most.

Liu · Feb 15, 2018

EtuMalku said:
The stance taken by the Herald of the Dawn would be that Gnosticism is a RHP system as is Shaivism. However, I do admit our undertsanding and faith may be unique and possibly not the LHP shared by most.

Fair enough if that's your order-specific definition, and as such it's coherent.
I just don't consider it that helpful for the understanding of the more general LHP, both when considering the history and the diversity of it.

EtuMalku · Feb 15, 2018

Liu said:
Fair enough if that's your order-specific definition, and as such it's coherent.
I just don't consider it that helpful for the understanding of the more general LHP, both when considering the history and the diversity of it.

Obviously, I consider this majority of LHP you speak of to be really RHP's. Hence why I am endlessly trying to define what the western left hand path is and why/how it differs from the eastern left hand path.

Mindmaster · Feb 15, 2018

Liu said:
Or, you could be a devotee of the deity of the individual will, which arguably is true for quite a lot of LHPers, in which case doing your will and doing the will of the divine is the same, or you could consider your own will even a direct manifestation of the divine, which makes the question of separation invalid as well.

Certainly, this is a valid point as well. Anyway, the obvious course is to figure out what the hell is a will anyway... Then you can decide if it's yours, a creators, or someone else's.

crossfire · Feb 15, 2018

You can also consider the far eastern: The left hand path is the Yin path, and the right hand path is the Yang path. Taoism is an example of a Yin path and Confucianism is an example of a Yang path. You can google Yin Path and Yang Path in traditional Kung Fu to get a better idea about them. Most Westerners overwhelmingly go for the Yang Path in Kung Fu. There is also quite a show of Yang path in the Western occult community (just as Confucianism is loud and showy as compared to Taoism,) but you can also see the quieter Yin pathers if you look for it.

Liu · Feb 19, 2018

EtuMalku said:
Obviously, I consider this majority of LHP you speak of to be really RHP's. Hence why I am endlessly trying to define what the western left hand path is and why/how it differs from the eastern left hand path.

I guess we can only agree to disagree here.

Mindmaster said:
Certainly, this is a valid point as well. Anyway, the obvious course is to figure out what the hell is a will anyway... Then you can decide if it's yours, a creators, or someone else's.

Very true. "What is a will" is a very difficult question, even if ignoring the metaphysics of it. Especially since even if we think we know what we want we don't know beforehand whether we will like it or even just whether our decisions will lead us to it.

crossfire said:
You can also consider the far eastern: The left hand path is the Yin path, and the right hand path is the Yang path. Taoism is an example of a Yin path and Confucianism is an example of a Yang path. You can google Yin Path and Yang Path in traditional Kung Fu to get a better idea about them. Most Westerners overwhelmingly go for the Yang Path in Kung Fu. There is also quite a show of Yang path in the Western occult community (just as Confucianism is loud and showy as compared to Taoism,) but you can also see the quieter Yin pathers if you look for it.

I kinda see your point (knowing next to nothing about Taoism, though).
The LHP, with its focus on self-development, individuality, cunning, and critical thinking is certainly more introverted in that manner than the RHP's converting the masses, one size fits all-approach.

And actually, some of the more famous LHPers, when they become too flashy and showoffy that often is what makes me wonder whether they are truly on the path or rather charlatans selling out.
But would that make them RHPers?
If the LHP is about being oneself and if someone has more of a yang-personality then that wouldn't lead me to the conclusion that that person isn't fit for the path.
On the contrary, guessing here, but I would associate yang also with being personally engaged in shaping one's path, whereas yin could be associated with merely reacting.

That's why I'm unsure whether those dichotomies really can be equated.

Also, not that that would mean anything, but isn't Yin associated with the right side, and Yang with the left side?

crossfire · Feb 19, 2018

Liu said:
Also, not that that would mean anything, but isn't Yin associated with the right side, and Yang with the left side?

Yin is left, yang is right. (The {soft} councelor is on the left, the {hard} army general is on the right.)

Liu · Feb 20, 2018

crossfire said:
Yin is left, yang is right. (The {soft} councelor is on the left, the {hard} army general is on the right.)

I'm certain I recently read it the other way round somewhere. But thanks for clarifying!

crossfire · Feb 20, 2018

Liu said:
I'm certain I recently read it the other way round somewhere. But thanks for clarifying!

I don't know how much credence you put in the Urban Dictionary, but here it is for what it is worth:
Urban Dictionary: left hand path

left hand path
1. In eastern mysticism, any spiritual path embodying the principle of yin; characterised by passivity, and reaching enlightenment by flowing according to one's inner nature, the opposite being right hand path. In the original Indian doctrines, it was called Vamachara.

2. In the modern western re-interpretation, any spiritual path which pursues worldly goals and pleasures as opposed to the spiritual.
1. In walking the left hand path, one takes the path of least resistance to achieve goals.

2. A student of the left hand path in the West may perform rites for money or sex.

Liu · Feb 20, 2018

crossfire said:
I don't know how much credence you put in the Urban Dictionary, but here it is for what it is worth:
Urban Dictionary: left hand path

left hand path
1. In eastern mysticism, any spiritual path embodying the principle of yin; characterised by passivity, and reaching enlightenment by flowing according to one's inner nature, the opposite being right hand path. In the original Indian doctrines, it was called Vamachara.

2. In the modern western re-interpretation, any spiritual path which pursues worldly goals and pleasures as opposed to the spiritual.
1. In walking the left hand path, one takes the path of least resistance to achieve goals.

2. A student of the left hand path in the West may perform rites for money or sex.

Lol, I normally consider Urban Dictionary a handy tool when it comes to slang, but not exactly for philosophical technical terms, and that entry contains as much wrong as truth.

If anything, reading that definition I'd think of RHP-charlatans that "pursue worldly goals and pleasures as opposed to the spiritual" and "may perform rites for money or sex" - they just don't do it openly.
I mean, of course LHPers can do so as well, but we at least are generally honest about it.
Our path includes the option to do that stuff, but it's not restricted to it.

And a spiritual path with only worldly and no spiritual goals?
I mean, there is a grain of truth in it - the LHP (both east and west) tends to not make a difference between what is worldly and what is spiritual, treating both as one and the same thing.
Nevertheless the definition there sounds a bit paradoxical, unless the author is referring to 2 different meanings of "spiritual" in one and the same sentence.

Furthermore, depends on the exact interpretation of the words, but much of both the definitions 1 and 2 seems to fit the western and eastern LHP equally well, in my opinion.

But still fascinating that that article also connects it with the concept of yin.
Also there, depends on what exactly one means. "flowing according to one's inner nature", that certainly sounds familiar to me. I wouldn't say that it applies to all forms of the LHP, though, nor that it's restricted to it.

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