Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Given the trinity is in scripture, what trinity are you referring to and that you'd disagree with as a fault in christian doctrine?(not hearsay but from scripture)
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Given the trinity is in scripture, what trinity are you referring to and that you'd disagree with as a fault in christian doctrine?(not hearsay but from scripture)
These are the bible passages that formed a Trinity Doctrine that is not Biblical.
Old Testament
Genesis 1:1
Isaiah 7:14
Genesis 1:26
Isaiah 9:6
Genesis 11:7
Isaiah 43:11
Genesis 16:7-13
Isaiah 44:6
Genesis 18:1 and 2
Jeremiah 17:5
Deuteronomy 6:4
Jeremiah 23:6
Psalm 45:6
Micah 5:2
Psalm 110:1
Zechariah 12:10
Proverbs 8:23
New Testament
Matthew 1:23
Romans 10:13
Matthew 4:10
1 Corinthians 8:6
Matthew 9:2 and 3
1 Corinthians 10:4b
Matthew 9:8b
1 Corinthians 10:9
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
Matthew 28:19
2 Corinthians 5:19
Matthew 28:20b
2 Corinthians 12:19b
Mark 2:7
2 Corinthians 13:14
Luke 1:35
Ephesians 1:22 and 23
Luke 1:47
Ephesians 3:9
Luke 5:20 and 21
Ephesians 4:7 and 8
Luke 7:16
Ephesians 5:5
Luke 8:39
Philippians 2:6-8
John 1:1
Colossians 1:15-20
John 1:3
Colossians 2:2
John 1:10
Colossians 2:9
John 1:14a
2 Thessalonians 1:12
John 1:15
1 Timothy 3:16
John 1:18
1 Timothy 5:21
John 2:19
1 Timothy 6:14-16
John 2:24
2 Timothy 4:1
John 3:13
Titus 2:13
John 5:18b
Hebrews 1:2
John 6:33
Hebrews 1:8
John 6:38
Hebrews 1:10
John 6:46
Hebrews 2:16
John 6:62
Hebrews 4:8
John 6:64
Hebrews 7:3
John 8:24b
Hebrews 13:8
John 8:58b
1 Peter 1:11
John 10:18
2 Peter 1:1b
John 10:30
1 John 2:22
John 10:33
1 John 3:16
John 10:38
1 John 4:1-3
John 14:11
1 John 5:7 and 8
John 14:16 and 17
1 John 5:20
John 17:5
Jude 4
John 20:17
Revelation 1:8
John 20:28
Revelation 1:11
Acts 5:3 and 4
Revelation 1:13-15
Acts 7:45
Revelation 1:17
Acts 7:59
Revelation 3:14
Acts 20:28b
Revelation 21:6
Romans 9:5
Revelation 22:13
Romans 10:9
Which one says Trinity?
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
You have more time on your hands than I do. I dont research info on my posts. I just type fast. When I have conversation, this is what I get below. That and if you going to say something in Lover and my posts, read them first so you know the definition first. This doesnt seem well thought out at all.
Name a scripture below that shows there is no relationship between father, son, and holy spirit?
If they are one person, it would not be called Tri nity just one god. Since trinity is three, name a scripture that the three persons are seperate from each other but called one person at the same time?
@loverofhumanity this is my point in a nutshell.
Answer: they all do
What type trinity are you opposing?
The first two verses talks about god. Im sure the others talk about jesus and others about the holy spirit.
Please answer the questions above so I know your point; no hypthetical questions half directed to me just to prove your point. Very disrespectful.
Name a scripture below that shows there is no relationship between father, son, and holy spirit?
If they are one person, it would not be called Tri nity just one god. Since trinity is three, name a scripture that the three persons are seperate from each other but called one person at the same time?
@loverofhumanity this is my point in a nutshell.
Answer: they all do
What type trinity are you opposing?
The first two verses talks about god. Im sure the others talk about jesus and others about the holy spirit.
Please answer the questions above so I know your point; no hypthetical questions half directed to me just to prove your point. Very disrespectful.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Trinity is the relationship between father, son, and holy spirit hence the Tri. English not hearsay definitions.
Also, I think you just copied and pasted. I read all these verses. You gotta answer me how the trinity is not in scripture given the relationship between father/son/holy spirit (trinity) is specifically in the bible both in your verses and in the bible itself.
That, and the bible does not say the word trinity. It's a word that means relationship between three separate things as one.
Genesis 1:1: One god
Isaiah 7:14: Doesn't relate to your point
Genesis 1:26: Relationship between father and son: likeness and image
Isaiah 9:6: As a result of the likeness above, he would be called a counselor etc..
Genesis 11:7: Don't see how this relates (DR)
Isiah 43:11 This sounds closer to the trinity than it does not. There isn't more than one god and there is a savior, how can there be a likeness or image of a savior when god said there would be none apart from him???? (Bad verse)
Genesis 16:7-13: That is why he is human so that people can see the image of god without turning to salt.
Isiah 44:6: This doesn't help your case. Actually, it supports mine. There can't be anything apart from god, jesus included. Hence: relationship.
Genesis 18:1-2: So...?
Jeremiah 17:5: Interesting way to support your point. Don't see the connection. Jesus isn't any flesh but the image of god. Your point?
Deuteronomy 6:4: Jesus says the same. How does this prove that there is no relationship between jesus and his father?
Jeremiah 23:6: And... Psalm 45:6: Uh huh...
Micah 5:2: Assuming they are talking about jesus? What's your point?
Psalm 110:1: Umm? relation?
Zechariah 12:10 (NIV): Talking about jesus? If no relationship, why would people mourn for a savior that does not exist? (Aka your verse above)
Proverbs 8:23: Uh huh....
Sorry, I can't do all of the NT for you. The general consesus in the gospels-WHICH I HAVE READ IN FULL is that jesus is savior, born of a virgin, lived, die, resurrected, went back to the lord. In acts, gentiles and jews believed and filled with the holy spirit. jesus will come back. Anyone who is crucified in christ is crucified with jesus.
If there was no relationship between father (OT), son (NT), and holy spirit (ACTs...)
what trinity are you speaking of and provide scripture not hearsay to support it?
Had to go to a public computer. This just makes me
Please read Lover's and my conversation first and definitions before interjecting.
The Trinity that put the Name of Jesus as the only way, exclusive of God in all the Faiths.
We have our One God.
We can receive the bounty of the Holy Spirit by accepting God's Messengers.
We can see Christ in all the Messengers.
That is what these Bible Passages point to.
Regards Tony
What I support is God, the Holy Spirit and the Messengers.
With Moses we Have God and the Holy Spirit through the burning bush.
With Jesus with have God and the Holy Spirit which came down in the form of a dove at baptisim
With Muhammad we have God and the Holy Spirit as the Angel Gabriel.
With the Bab we have God and the Holy Spirit as the severed head of the Imam Husayn.
With Baha'u'llah we Have God and the Holy Spirit in the form of the Maid from Heaven.
If we look at all the Great Beings they will all have a point of enlightment, when their Mission was made clear.
Muhammad made it very clear to the Christains in the 600's
"People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust. " — Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 171
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
One god, jesus in his likness. The holy spirit, breathe of god (love and all that)
Scripturally, that is the trinity. Nothing more.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I know
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
English grammar: unity, duality, trinity
Scripture: Father (Ot), son (nt), holy spirit (acts), one god (genesis), one savior (titus 2:13), relationship/trinity (Isiah: 3:11)
If jesus is in god's likeness and there is no savior apart from god, who is jesus to god as human when human christians cant get to god unless through jesus?
Is jesus human or not?
It is Christ that all come to God through.
Jesus, who as Christ is all the Great Beings, is born of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus tells us it is the Spirit that Gives life, the flesh amounts to nothing.
When we, born of the human spirit, use the aid of the Spirit of Faith to accept Jesus as the Christ, then that is when we are born again into a spiritual life.
We can only get to know God through the Great Beings, with the use of the Spirit of Faith.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Who is jesus apart from god?
Colossians 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
Jesus was the Christ, "The Annointed One".
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
How is this different from the scripture view of the trinity?
Edit: you have to give me straight answers. I read the bible.
The Body of Jesus is dead and buried.
Christ as the Holy Spirit has risen and returns in each age as another Messenger with another Name.
The Body of the Messenger on this Earth is not God. Anything we see or conceive, is not God.
We can not let a Name blind us to all we can know about God, which is the Spirit within each Messenger and the life they show us we can live.
They will live the life expected of us, they will teach us what we can know and leave us with guidance and laws that will enable us to evolve into what we can be.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
His real body?
Christ as the holy spirit? How is this different than the trinity?
But he is the holy spirit?
Wasnt bahaullah the burning bush or something?
What does relationship between god/christ/holy spieit mean to you?
Name? You caps it. Do you mean god? Jesus? Holy spirit?
Why blinded? (You can say people are blind but you cant say differences is good without god; not my value. I wont understand the conflict)
Only god can do that?
If the messengers, how are they different in relation to the trinity?
Remember, Im not christian nor bahai. Repeating what bahai believe is like my asking you how to say cup in english and you keep giving me different synonms in the same language thats not english.
You have to do some deeper thought conversations. Youre just repeating your beliefs.
Bahaullah is a manifestation of god
You learn from bahaullah that of god; you cant talk to god by yourself
How is this different than the trinity where a christian cant talk to god directly but through christ?
Yes, Names blind us. Think context not content.
Baha'u'llah explains His own relationship to God, He testifies:
"When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!"
This is also what Christ said, but in other words. It is applicable to all the Great Beings. They have a dual staton, explained by Baha'u'llah as such;
"..The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself… The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”
This is a link to a bit more detail where those quotes are taken from - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 233-234
Why is this different to the Trinity...Well it is obvious you and I see the three aspects, but it is not written as a doctrine in the Bible. You must ask a person of the Christian Faith who holds the doctrine of the Trinity in their heart, as to how it would exclude all others but Jesus the Christ.
Regards Tony
The only difference is we believe that there are not 3 persons in God but that God is one distinct and separate Being. Jesus was in the image of God like a pure mirror reflecting the sun but the sun itself, God didn’t descend into the mirror(Jesus)
The Holy Spirit is the rays of the sun or of God but again not God Himself. To us, God is above all and has no partners or equal. The Prophets or Beings like Christ were ‘reflections’ of God but not God Himself.
That is why Jesus says ‘My Father is greater than I ‘ because He knows God has no equal, not even Himself.
The mistake made by many I believe is they follow what people say instead of what the Word of God actually says.
“man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets.
So we should be following what the Manifestations have said and not what people or religious leaders are saying.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is one of my favorite passages that you quoted.
Along the same lines of not following what other people say, Baha’u’llah wrote that we are all responsible for our own beliefs:
“It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure? If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: “Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self,” and if such a man should reply and say: “Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal,” such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected.For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143