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The book of Genesis "Cain"

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The translation sucks. Specifically ...

The Living Bible (TLB) is an English version of the Bible created by Kenneth N. Taylor and first published in 1971. Unlike most English language versions of the Bible, The Living Bible is a paraphrase. Taylor used the American Standard Version of 1901 as his base text.[1] [source]​

At best, it's an ignorant joke. So, for example, a far more accurate translation would be that offered by Everett Fox:

So God created humankind in his image,
in the image of God did he create it,
male and female he created them.​

Yeah, I don't know why he used maid. Maybe he thought it necessary to imply they were initially virgin for some reason.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
What was the mark, that God put on Cain, in Genesis Chapter 4

Apparently there were some protestant preachers a while back saying this mark was dark skin. Not that there is any reason to believe this but was probably done to justify slavery.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young reasoned that black skin was a result of the Curse of Cain or the Curse of Ham. They used these Biblical curses to justify slavery. Young believed the curse made black people ineligible to vote, marry white people, or hold the priesthood. Successive presidents continued to use the Biblical curses to justify excluding black men from the priesthood. The idea that black skin was a curse was not officially contradicted until 2013.

Black people and Mormonism - Wikipedia
 
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Phantasman

Well-Known Member
After Cain departed, Cain went into the land of Nod, on the east of Eden, and Cain's wife gave birth to Enoch.
Genesis 4:16-17

Seeing Adam and Eve only had 3 sons, Cain,Able and Seth. So where do you suppose Cain's wife came from ?

What was the mark, that God put on Cain, in Genesis Chapter 4
I can only give the view from gnosis shown to John.

The Archons (that created Adam and Eve) created others as well. It was only Eve then Adam that ate from the forbidden tree which gave them the "spirit" where (true) life existed. The Archons were sexually active with humans once woman was created. Eve said "I have gotten a man from the Lord." when Cain was born. Whether the child was from Adam or the Archons, remain to be seen as Christ told many things to John that he said "Moses wasn't exactly correct". And since Jesus said that Moses didn't get his knowledge from heaven (John 6:32).

It was Seth that was the first real son of Adam and Eve that received the spirit contained in both. At the time of the "flood" (actually a luminous cloud that protected the line of Seth according to Christ), the line of Archon interventions were the evil that were destroyed by the Demiurge.

Excerpts from Apocryphon of John:

"And the chief archon seduced her and he begot in her two sons; the first and the second (are) Eloim and Yave. Eloim has a bear-face and Yave has a cat-face. The one is righteous but the other is unrighteous. (Yave is righteous but Eloim is unrighteous.) Yave he set over the fire and the wind, and Eloim he set over the water and the earth. And these he called with the names Cain and Abel with a view to deceive.

And:

"And he (the chief archon) repented for everything which had come into being through him. This time he planned to bring a flood upon the work of man. But the greatness of the light of the foreknowledge informed Noah, and he proclaimed (it) to all the offspring which are the sons of men. But those who were strangers to him did not listen to him. It is not as Moses said, 'They hid themselves in an ark' (Gn 7: 7), but they hid themselves in a place, not only Noah, but also many other people from the immovable race. They went into a place and hid themselves in a luminous cloud. And he (Noah) recognized his authority, and she who belongs to the light was with him, having shone on them because he (the chief archon) had brought darkness upon the whole earth.


Two different explanations. The orthodox accept the Moses version. The version in John answers many questions and defines the powers in high places that wish us to not see the true God, but the false god, as god.

It does shine a lot on the Gospel message like John 8:44, as well as Cain's murder, Nod and the flood.

It's all past. But the perspective one see's comes from their seeking and what the Spirit reveals.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
What "land" do you think is being referred to?
All the land. Without being specified why would one think otherwise? Just consider what other Bibles say.


Gen. 2:4-5 (ERV)

The First Man and the Garden of Eden

4 This is the story about the creation of the sky and the earth. This is what happened when the Lord God made the earth and the sky. 5 This was before there were plants on the earth. Nothing was growing in the fields because the Lord God had not yet made it rain on the earth, and there was no one to care for the plants.

________________________________________________

Gen. 2:4-5 (CEV)

That’s how God created the heavens and the earth.
The Garden of Eden

When the Lord God made the heavens and the earth, 5 no grass or plants were growing anywhere. God had not yet sent any rain, and there was no one to work the land.

_________________________________________________

Gen. 2:4-5 (GNT)
. 4 And that is how the universe was created.
The Garden of Eden

When the Lord God made the universe, 5 there were no plants on the earth and no seeds had sprouted, because he had not sent any rain, and there was no one to cultivate the land;

_______________________________________________

Gen. 2:4-5 (JUB)
4 ¶ These are the origins of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

5 and every plant of the field before it was in the earth and all the grass of the field before it grew, for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and neither was there a man to till the ground.


________________________________________________

Gen. 2:4-5 (KJV)
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

_______________________________________________


Gen. 2:4-5 (TLB)

4 Here is a summary of the events in the creation of the heavens and earth when the Lord God made them.

5 There were no plants or grain sprouting up across the earth at first, for the Lord God hadn’t sent any rain; nor was there anyone to farm the soil.


_______________________________________________

Gen. 2:4-5 (NCV)
4 This is the story of the creation of the sky and the earth. When the Lord God first made the earth and the sky, 5 there were still no plants on the earth. Nothing was growing in the fields because the Lord God had not yet made it rain on the land. And there was no person to care for the ground,


.

Adam and Eve were the second pair to be created on the day following the 7th day.

The first male and female to be created was on the six day of creation.
Then explain what is said in Gen. 2:4-5 See above.



That comes from The Living Bible. Which part do you think is wrong?
Here's what The Living Bible says in Gen 2:4-17

4 Here is a summary of the events in the creation of the heavens and earth when the Lord God made them.

5 There were no plants or grain sprouting up across the earth at first, for the Lord God hadn’t sent any rain; nor was there anyone to farm the soil. 6 (However, water welled up from the ground at certain places and flowed across the land.)
Note that up to this point of creation god had not created any human being. THEN god created man.

7 The time came when the Lord God formed a man’s body from the dust of the ground[a] and breathed into it the breath of life. And man became a living person.
And what did he do with this man?

8 Then the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, to the east, and placed in the garden the man he had formed.
This man, the first he created, he placed in the garden of Eden.

9 The Lord God planted all sorts of beautiful trees there in the garden, trees producing the choicest of fruit. At the center of the garden he placed the Tree of Life, and also the Tree of Conscience, giving knowledge of Good and Bad. 10 A river from the land of Eden flowed through the garden to water it; afterwards the river divided into four branches. 11-12 One of these was named the Pishon; it winds across the entire length of the land of Havilah, where nuggets of pure gold are found, also beautiful bdellium and even lapis lazuli. 13 The second branch is called the Gihon, crossing the entire length of the land of Cush. 14 The third branch is the Tigris, which flows to the east of the city of Asher. And the fourth is the Euphrates.

15 The Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden as its gardener, to tend and care for it. 16-17 But the Lord God gave the man this warning: “You may eat any fruit in the garden except fruit from the Tree of Conscience—for its fruit will open your eyes to make you aware of right and wrong, good and bad. If you eat its fruit, you will be doomed to die.”
.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
God had created man earlier in Genesis 1. Told man to multiply and fill the earth.

Later God created Adam and place him in Eden. So there were lots of folks already running around before Adam came along.
So, Adam was not the first man, then? Did the other people eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and if not, why were they and their descendants also subject to death, since they were not in Adam's lineage?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
So, Adam was not the first man, then? Did the other people eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and if not, why were they and their descendants also subject to death, since they were not in Adam's lineage?

Adam and Eve was the only 2 humans in Eden.

All other humans lived in the land of Nod and beyond. (The rest of the world)
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Genesis 5:4-

"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:"

Don't think we need Sefaria to interpret that one.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Adam and Eve was the only 2 humans in Eden.

All other humans lived in the land of Nod and beyond. (The rest of the world)

Ok, thanks for answering.
All the land. Without being specified why would one think otherwise? Just consider what other Bibles say.

Sure, but it's a translation from a language there is IMO limited certainty about. They use the same word for earth and land, adam and man. "Them" is more implied than an actual translation.

To be honest it's difficult to have certainty on any of this.

However the way I read it is this area of land was separate from the rest and still barren prior to God planting the Garden of Eden there.

I'm not saying it's the right way. It just the only way that would seem to make sense to the rest of Genesis.

For example when God threw Cain out and marked him. Cain was afraid others would, because of his mark or curse, kill him. If there were no other people around, who was Cain afraid of?

In seems obvious in the writing of the story it was accepted that other folks were about contemporary to Adam and Eve.

We have our translations, with whatever accuracy that implies. The Hebrew had it for hundreds of years. Don't you think they would have questioned this themselves if they saw it as inconsistent?

So I suspect our Western view of Adam and Eve being the first "humans" is more likely do to faulty translation than the Hebrew allowing such an inconsistency to remain part of their origin story.

I'd rather give the original authors of the story the benefit of the doubt and read the Bible in such a way that would make sense out of it than nonsense.

Whatever our western views of Christianity, I don't think we should hold the original authors accountable to those views.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
After Cain departed, Cain went into the land of Nod, on the east of Eden, and Cain's wife gave birth to Enoch.
Genesis 4:16-17

Seeing Adam and Eve only had 3 sons, Cain,Able and Seth. So where do you suppose Cain's wife came from ?

What was the mark, that God put on Cain, in Genesis Chapter 4
If you read Genesis, you see that A&E had both sons and daughters. The question about where they got their wives from is then just a matter of reading to find the answer
Genesis 5:4-5 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.​
Just because we are introduced to the problem with Cain killing Abel does not mean that there were no girls soon after, or even at the same time, if they were still minors. Nothing is said about the timeline.

The mark has not been divulged. What do Jewish fables say about this, or perhaps other accounts.

When I think of what we can do today with out holograms on credit cards, what if God put a mark, e.g. of an angel on his forehead that lit up when he encountered people so as to make a strong impression on them that this person was marked by God. Just thinking out loud.
 
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sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Uhh....the book of Genesis. BTW, personally I believe the folks outside of Eden were cavemen. That's why most of us are so ugly today...just sayin'.
Yes, I believe that they came from the natural world. The creation of Eden was seperate from the natural world.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
If you read Genesis, you see that A&E had both sons and daughters. The question about where they got their wives from is then just a matter of reading to find the answer
Genesis 5:4-5 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.​
Just because we are introduced to the problem with Cain killing Abel does not mean that there were no girls soon after, or even at the same time, if they were still minors. Nothing is said about the timeline.

The mark has not been divulged. What do Jewish fables say about this, or perhaps other accounts.

When I think of what we can do today with out holograms on credit cards, what if God put a mark, e.g. of an angel on his forehead that lit up when he encountered people so as to make a strong impression on them that this person was marked by God. Just thinking out loud.


Genesis 5:4--"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters"

This being in reference to Seth having sons and daughters.

As for the mark of Cain.

"And now are you cursed from the earth, which has opened her mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand; When you tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto you her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt you be in the earth" Genesis 4:11-12.

The mark of Cain is, whatever Cain plants in the ground it will not grow.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Genesis 5:4--"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters"

This being in reference to Seth having sons and daughters.

As for the mark of Cain.

"And now are you cursed from the earth, which has opened her mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand; When you tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto you her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt you be in the earth" Genesis 4:11-12.

The mark of Cain is, whatever Cain plants in the ground it will not grow.
Read the last part of the scripture:
Genesis 5:4-5 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam that he lived amounted to nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
ESV:
. 4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. 5 Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.
KJV: 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:​
I don't think you need more than this to see clearly now.

If you look at verse 6, you will see how from this verse we go into what Seth had, children, etc.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
God had created man earlier in Genesis 1. Told man to multiply and fill the earth.

Later God created Adam and place him in Eden. So there were lots of folks already running around before Adam came along.


The gods of Sumer made man to care for their fruit tree gardens in the EDIN. He was to be a gardening slave, alleviating the gods of toil for their food, The gods had bodies of flesh and could die of starvation if having no food to eat.

So their city-gardens in the EDIN were created for for them to eat from, BEFORE man was later created, and became their gardening slave.

th
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
The gods of Sumer made man to care for their fruit tree gardens in the EDIN. He was to be a gardening slave, alleviating the gods of toil for their food, The gods had bodies of flesh and could die of starvation if having no food to eat.

So their city-gardens in the EDIN were created for for them to eat from, BEFORE man was later created, and became their gardening slave.

th

And where would we find the evidence to support this rubbish?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The Garden of Eden as recast Mesopotamian Myth
by Walter R. Mattfeld
(Millbury, MA)

Some Liberal PhD scholars trained in biblical studies and ancient Mesopotamian myths understand that the Garden of Eden story is a Hebrew recast of Mesopotamian myths which explained how man came to be created and where, and how he acquired godly-forbidden knowledge but was denied immortality.

The Garden of Eden as recast Mesopotamian Myth
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The Garden of Eden as recast Mesopotamian Myth
by Walter R. Mattfeld
(Millbury, MA)

Some Liberal PhD scholars trained in biblical studies and ancient Mesopotamian myths understand that the Garden of Eden story is a Hebrew recast of Mesopotamian myths which explained how man came to be created and where, and how he acquired godly-forbidden knowledge but was denied immortality.

The Garden of Eden as recast Mesopotamian Myth
You do realize that Abraham was the son of Terah, who was the high priest in the Sumerian city of UR.
The problem with that is ur didn't exist at that time.
 
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