Arian Catholics

Hi all

Are there any Arian Catholics out there?

It would be great if you could get in touch.

Cheers

Jim :run:

Æthelweard said:

Hi all

Are there any Arian Catholics out there?

It would be great if you could get in touch.

Cheers

Jim :run:

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What is an Arian Catholic?

Hi Vic



Go to wikpedia. I cant post the link cos ive not enough posts. The official site is at the bottom of the page. Pretty much fits my views on Christianity. Never heard of them before so i was wanting to get in touch with someone to ask a few questions.

Cheers

Jim

Æthelweard said:

Hi Vic



Go to wikpedia. I cant post the link cos ive not enough posts. The official site is at the bottom of the page. Pretty much fits my views on Christianity. Never heard of them before so i was wanting to get in touch with someone to ask a few questions.

Cheers

Jim

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Ah ok, yeah we kinda fought this movement back in Nicea already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_catholic

Our disagreements are there for all to see.

*bump*?

Victor said:

Ah ok, yeah we kinda fought this movement back in Nicea already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_catholic

Our disagreements are there for all to see.

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Yeah, I'm not seeing how a person calls themself "Catholic" but won't align him/herself with the teachings and declarations of the Catholic Church

FGS

FerventGodSeeker said:

Yeah, I'm not seeing how a person calls themself "Catholic" but won't align him/herself with the teachings and declarations of the Catholic Church

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They view themselves as the followers of the true catholic church.

This is a group I will have to read up on, pretty interesting.

FerventGodSeeker said:

Yeah, I'm not seeing how a person calls themself "Catholic" but won't align him/herself with the teachings and declarations of the Catholic Church

FGS

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Catholic just mean "universal", so any church can claim to be catholic if it wants, they're just not Roman Catholic.

Arian Catholicism does seem extremely interesting. I'm pretty new to all this but it's definately more along the lines of what I believe in (never could get my head around the Trinity).

Ive been in touch with the Arian Catholic Church and hope to continue relations with them. I'll let you know how it all goes :angel2:
Cheers

jim

Halcyon said:

Catholic just mean "universal", so any church can claim to be catholic if it wants, they're just not Roman Catholic.

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Catholic means universal in the sense that it's unified as well. There is over 23 different rites in the Umbrella of Catholicism. All of which are in union with the Pope. "Roman Catholic" is but one rite of many. But I can assure you that Arian Catholic is not under papal jurisdiction. Not sure why they would want to keep the name.

Halcyon said:

they're just not Roman Catholic.

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Except, of course, during those short periods of time when the Arians came back and managed to get Athanasius himself and the rest of the proponents of the Nicene Creed banished from the Empire under Constantius II and Valens.

the doppleganger

Victor said:

Catholic means universal in the sense that it's unified as well. There is over 23 different rites in the Umbrella of Catholicism. All of which are in union with the Pope. "Roman Catholic" is but one rite of many. But I can assure you that Arian Catholic is not under papal jurisdiction. Not sure why they would want to keep the name.

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We're not under papal jurisdiction either but what westerners call the Eastern Orthodox Church is actually the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church. Catholic does not mean RC and nor does it mean universal (despite what most westerners think). It's from the Greek kata holos, which means 'according to the whole'. This is a narrow portion of the meaning universal, which is actually best translated as ecumenical not catholic (hence St. Gregory the Great's opposition to the title of the Patriarch of Constantinople).

Arian Catholic is, however, an oxymoron. The Arians did not adhere to the faith according to the whole. They, in fact, chose to break communion with the vast majority of the Church over a new teaching with an identifiable origin (in the person of the priest Arius) rather than adhere to the Catholic faith. They then did not believe in the Catholic faith as they could not fulfill a single of St. Vincent of Lerins criteria for identifying that faith - it was neither believed by all, nor always, nor everywhere, being predominantly eastern (and even then a minority), and having no roots in the faith prior to the fourth century.

James

EDIT:

Just took a look at the Arian Catholic church's teachings and, interestingly, they appear to be teaching Adoptionalism rather than Arianism. Arius did not teach that Christ was simply a man who was the spiritual son of God but rather that Christ was a lesser god (but divine nonetheless) who was incarnate as man but was not consubstantial with the Father. Unless the Wikipedia article is incorrect, the Arian Catholic Church ought to change it's name as the LDS teachings are closer to Arius's than these are.

doppleganger said:

Except, of course, during those short periods of time when the Arians came back and managed to get Athanasius himself and the rest of the proponents of the Nicene Creed banished from the Empire under Constantius II and Valens.

the doppleganger

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They still weren't part of the Catholic Church because they had been anathematised by Her. They just had the ear of the Emperor. This was not unusual at the time. The Arians seem to have gone down well with temporal leaders. It is interesting to note that, despite his presiding of the Council of Nicea, Constantine was eventually baptised himself by an Arian priest. What does that do to the usual claims that he corrupted the Church?

James

JamesThePersian said:

They still weren't part of the Catholic Church because they had been anathematised by Her.

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They were, for a short time, the "Roman Catholic Church" by authority of certain of the Emperors.

JamesThePersian said:

What does that do to the usual claims that he corrupted the Church?

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It would depend on who is claiming the Church was corrupted, and why, wouldn't it?

the doppleganger

doppleganger said:

They were, for a short time, the "Roman Catholic Church" by authority of certain of the Emperors.

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There was no Roman Catholic Church until the second millennium, when the Great Schism saw Rome and the other four Patriarchates part company. The Emperor likewise never held any authority over the Church. Constantine's example shows this perfectly. He was in favour of the Arians and yet the council he called anathematised them. At no point after Nicea was the anathema repealed and never after that point were Arians allowed into communion with the Catholic Church. Without communion there is no Church and just being a church within the Empire and having the ear of the Emperor did not make you a Catholic.

It would depend on who is claiming the Church was corrupted, and why, wouldn't it?

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The usual claim is that Constantine corrupted the Church to follow his beliefs at Nicea, but as he was favourably disposed towards the Arian party and the Church did not side with them but with their opponents, this view has little to support it.

James

JamesThePersian said:

The usual claim is that Constantine corrupted the Church to follow his beliefs at Nicea, but as he was favourably disposed towards the Arian party and the Church did not side with them but with their opponents, this view has little to support it.

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Gotcha. Personally, I don't think the Catholic Church is corrupted. Everything it has ever done is perfectly consistent with its nature.

the doppleganger

JamesThePersian said:

We're not under papal jurisdiction either but what westerners call the Eastern Orthodox Church is actually the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church. Catholic does not mean RC and nor does it mean universal (despite what most westerners think). It's from the Greek kata holos, which means 'according to the whole'. This is a narrow portion of the meaning universal, which is actually best translated as ecumenical not catholic (hence St. Gregory the Great's opposition to the title of the Patriarch of Constantinople).

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I thought I specifically said it didn't just mean RC. Although I will ask for a source on this "kata holos" meaning according to the whole. Did you mean: throughout the whole?

From New Advent:
katholikos from katholou -- throughout the whole, i.e., universal
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm

I'm no Greek scholar, so you could be right.

Victor said:

I thought I specifically said it didn't just mean RC. Although I will ask for a source on this "kata holos" meaning according to the whole. Did you mean: throughout the whole?

From New Advent:
katholikos from katholou -- throughout the whole, i.e., universal
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm

I'm no Greek scholar, so you could be right.

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I just looked it up in the dictionary, and "catholic" does come from the Greek kata and holos. However, my dictionary says that kata means "down, completely" and holos means "whole"...."completely whole" sounds pretty close to "universal" to me, too.

FGS

FerventGodSeeker said:

I just looked it up in the dictionary, and "catholic" does come from the Greek kata and holos. However, my dictionary says that kata means "down, completely" and holos means "whole"...."completely whole" sounds pretty close to "universal" to me, too.

FGS

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It was more a question of "according to the whole" vs. "throughout the whole" that caught my eye.