Why doesn't God kill unbelievers today?

Akivah said:

So since G-d's first recorded words were "Let there be light.", are you claiming that every time G-d said something else, that it was a change?

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I can't really imagine another definition for change that wouldn't be arbitrary. I don't see why saying God changes is so difficult. I don't think Genesis 1:1 constitutes the kind of change I'm thinking of, like change in will, commands, etc.

TheBannerofHomuraAkemi said:

This is my personal opinion and does not represent the beliefs of modern day Christianity.

I don't think God needs to kill us like he said he wants too since were so good at killing each other ourselves.

Or maybe he's just waiting. If your an immortal deity that will live forever you would be in no rush to end it. I mean it took millions of years for his creations to evolve into us. So I think he has a little patience.

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Thank you for being creative and thoughtful. This is an interesting perspective.

Buddha Dharma said:

I can't really imagine another definition for change that wouldn't be arbitrary. I don't see why saying God changes is so difficult. I don't think Genesis 1:1 constitutes the kind of change I'm thinking of, like change in will, commands, etc.

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God only changes His Message to humanity. The nature of God does not ever change. The reason God changes His Message to humanity (through scriptures revealed to Messengers through the Holy Spirit) is that (a) people change over time, and (b) the world people live in changes over time.

"Let there be light" was just the beginning... Then there was light and we moved onto another stage of our existence. God's Message cannot be the same throughout history because time does not stand still... The nature of life is change and we are ever-evolving spiritually. The world around us is also changing constantly. God is the All-Knowing Physician who knows what humanity needs.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

Trailblazer said:

Thanks for the suggestion but it was not my intention to talk about homosexuality. I was just wondering, if you believe God talks to humanity differently at different times in history, why do you believe the laws of the Old Testament apply to this age in history going forward into the future? Other Jewish people have told me that the Torah laws are forever.

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The Torah Laws are Eternal. However, some Laws are inapplicable to a certain time or place, some Laws are suspended because other requirements necessary for the Laws aren't currently in place.

Yes, G-d talks differently to us at different times in our history. When humankind first started out, we needed prophets to speak G-d's words. Now the Age of Prophecy is over and we have our teachings to know how to live properly.

Buddha Dharma said:

I can't really imagine another definition for change that wouldn't be arbitrary. I don't see why saying God changes is so difficult. I don't think Genesis 1:1 constitutes the kind of change I'm thinking of, like change in will, commands, etc.

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Telling us about multiple commandments is NOT a change. It would be a change if G-d later countermanded an earlier commandment.

Akivah said:

The Torah Laws are Eternal. However, some Laws are inapplicable to a certain time or place, some Laws are suspended because other requirements necessary for the Laws aren't currently in place.

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Okay, thanks for explaining that.

Akivah said:

Yes, G-d talks differently to us at different times in our history. When humankind first started out, we needed prophets to speak G-d's words. Now the Age of Prophecy is over and we have our teachings to know how to live properly.

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So I guess what you are saying is that the Torah teachings are all we need for all eternity to know how to live properly. The difference between Judaism and the Baha'i Faith is that we believe that God sends Prophets/Messengers throughout all of eternity, according to the needs of the times. Since the needs of humanity change, God, the All-Knowing Physician, sends new Messengers that address the needs of the current age:

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

“No man, however acute his perception, can ever hope to reach the heights which the wisdom and understanding of the Divine Physician have attained. Little wonder, then, if the treatment prescribed by the physician in this day should not be found to be identical with that which he prescribed before. How could it be otherwise when the ills affecting the sufferer necessitate at every stage of his sickness a special remedy?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 80

Trailblazer said:

The difference between Judaism and the Baha'i Faith is that we believe that God sends Prophets/Messengers throughout all of eternity, according to the needs of the times.

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Interesting...who is the current Baha'i prophet? If you don't have one now, who and when was the last one? Do you only have one at a time? How many female prophets have you had?

Trailblazer said:

I do not believe that God ever killed anyone. The Bible is not an accurate historical record by any means. Much of it is symbolic, a way to convey spiritual truths to people who were not spiritually mature enough for the straight talk they are able to understand in this new age. That is one reason why Jesus said He had many things to say but we could not bear them back in those days.

I believe in a personal God but I tend to agree with you that God does not interact with humans since God gave us free will to act on our own behalf. That might sound contradictory but it would take a little explaining and I don't have time to explain right now because I am late for work. Suffice to say that I believe that God sends Messengers to represent Him, but other than that there is no way to know if God does anything else. I am kind of a cross between a theist and a deist; I do my own thing.

Good to meet you.

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The Bible, like the works of all revealed religions, is history with a fictional overlay. And that, being a lie, means the rest of it can't be trusted without independent validation. Yes, they often do contain some philosophical Truth, but that needs reasoned validation as well. Faith validates nothing, just the opposite.

Jesus has had more words put in his mouth than probably anyone else in history.

God must be One and omnipresent. Sending "messengers"/angels is just more anthropomorphism. Any personal God would be one looking over your shoulder, influencing your moral choices and thus negating your free will. Deism, given its definition and the purpose for God's laissez-faire, makes blending it with theism impossible.

I was a deist for many years who believed in fate, prophesy and divine providence. It was like the trauma when I went through when I abandoned Christianity when I finally let myself listen to the other shoe drop. We don't know because we mustn't know....in this life. And the doubt rests a little easier on our shoulders when we finally realize that. It's not a contradiction, but it is a mystery.

dfnj said:

The Bible is full of evil and obviously was written by men:

No. 1:St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church:

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

No. 2: In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people:

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

No. 3: A command of Moses:

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

No. 4: The ending of Psalm 137, a psalm which was made into a disco calypso hit by Boney M, is often omitted from readings in church:

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

No. 5: Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them:

“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)

No. 6: St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans:

“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)

No. 7: In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out:

“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)

No. 8: The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son:

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

No. 9: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

No. 10: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Submit to your cruel masters slaves because the Bible implies slavery is morally okay!

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Are these quotations you found on your own or did you copy them from a skeptics' website?

Buddha Dharma said:

The Bible and Koran both contain accounts of God killing unbelievers for idolatry, apostasy, and blasphemy. The Bible says God made the earth swallow up some Jews for doubting Moses.


Why does God not today do this- if indeed that god is never-changing?


Why doesn't God make the earth swallow up atheists and other unbelievers? Why doesn't God consume people with a glance?


Is it that God has changed? God has lost his power somewhere? Or this God- the god of monotheism, doesn't exist?

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In the point of view of the Holy Qur’an the mass full termination of tribes for Arrogantly not believing or Committing crimes came to an end with the message of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

To understand why is quite simple, The tribes that were terminated each had a specific sin committed in addition to Disbelief, One tribe was cheating in trade, other was war crimes “Aaad Tribe”, other was homosexual rape “The people of prophet Loot who used to rape any passing male, and publicly have homosexual full sex intercourse”, other was religious discrimination of minorities “like the pharaoh of Egypt discrimination towards Jews”, etc.

So All the possible examples were fulfilled, there is no need for another additional example Then came the message of prophet Muhammad, the Arabs before Islam had all the above sins daily committed, so The holy Qur’an treated these problems one by one using the formal examples, and stated that the Prophet Muhammad will stand as witness in the hereafter for the Muslim nation and that the Muslim Nation will be witness to all other nations in addition to each nation’s specific witness, thus Ending any full termination of any Muslim or non-Muslim nation till Judgment day, Where God will Judge and balance the good and bad in every human being and judge him accordingly without an atom of injustice.

BilliardsBall said:

Are these quotations you found on your own or did you copy them from a skeptics' website?

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What difference does it make? There are thousands of verses in the Bible completely immoral by today's standards.

I think the Bible has it all wrong. You do not get forgiveness from God. You get absolution from the people you sinned against. I try to aspire to a higher sense of morality.

Akivah said:

Interesting...who is the current Baha'i prophet? If you don't have one now, who and when was the last one? Do you only have one at a time? How many female prophets have you had?

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The Prophet for the current dispensation (age in history) is Bahá'u'lláh. He was born in 1817and died in 1892. He had a 30 year mission and wrote His own scriptures. All of them have not yet been translated into English, but those that have been are all in the Baha’i Reference Library: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh.

Baha’is believe that there is only one Prophet that is current at a time. Baha’u’llah was not the last Prophet that will ever come to earth, just the current Prophet. We believe that Prophets have come throughout all eternity and will continue to come for all of eternity. That is called Progressive Revelation and is the core of our theology.

Baha’is often refer to Prophets as Messengers of God because they bring a message from God. We also call them Manifestations of God because they manifest God.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was the Messiah promised in the Old Testament and the return of Christ promised in the New Testament. In fact, we believe He was the Promised One of All Ages and fulfilled the prophecies of all religions: Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

There has never been a female Prophet but there very well could be one in the future.

ThePainefulTruth said:

The Bible, like the works of all revealed religions, is history with a fictional overlay. And that, being a lie, means the rest of it can't be trusted without independent validation. Yes, they often do contain some philosophical Truth, but that needs reasoned validation as well. Faith validates nothing, just the opposite.

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I agree that the Bible is history with a fictional overlay. I do not know that much about the Qur’an or the works of other revealed religions but the Baha’i Faith history has no fictional overlay since it is recent history that can be verified.

I appreciate how you think logically. I saw that from the first post I read that you wrote. Yes, the philosophical truth in the Bible, what I refer to as spiritual truth, needs to be validated. The only reason I believe in Moses and Jesus is because Baha’u’llah referred to them and validated them, but that does not mean the Bible is accurate history.

ThePainefulTruth said:

Jesus has had more words put in his mouth than probably anyone else in history.

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Ain’t that the painful truth.

ThePainefulTruth said:

God must be One and omnipresent. Sending "messengers"/angels is just more anthropomorphism. Any personal God would be one looking over your shoulder, influencing your moral choices and thus negating your free will. Deism, given its definition and the purpose for God's laissez-faire, makes blending it with theism impossible.

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I believe that God is One and God is omnipresent, but God is not anthropomorphic. Why do you think that “sending” Messengers is anthropomorphism? The reason God sends them is because God cannot become a man, so there is no other way for God to communicate His Will to man in such a way that all people can receive it and understand it. But God forever remains hidden.

The reason I said that I am a cross between a theist and a deist is because I believe in a God that knows everything about us and cares about us, but I do not believe in a God that intervenes as so many Christians believe. For example, a Christian says that God got them a job as if God actually did that, where I would say they got a job by making free will decisions and acting upon them. God does not cause things to happen although God knows what we will do before we ever do it.

Why do you think a personal God would be looking over our shoulder, influencing our moral choices and thus negating our free will? I believe God knows all our thoughts and is closer to us than we are to ourselves, but that does not mean God wants to influence our moral choices. The reason we have free will is so we can make our own moral choices. God does not intervene. Although God might prevent some of our free will choices from coming to fruition, we can never know if/when that happens because we can never know what God is doing. This is the beef I have with some Christians who say God did something in their life. I think this is rather naïve.

ThePainefulTruth said:

I was a deist for many years who believed in fate, prophesy and divine providence. It was like the trauma when I went through when I abandoned Christianity when I finally let myself listen to the other shoe drop. We don't know because we mustn't know....in this life. And the doubt rests a little easier on our shoulders when we finally realize that. It's not a contradiction, but it is a mystery.

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I guess you mean you went from a Christian to a deist and then from a deist to an agnostic, and that was like the other shoe dropping. People use the word agnostic to mean different things. For some it means that they don’t know if God exists or not and for others it means we cannot ever know if God exists... I guess you are the latter.

So do you think we are not meant to know in this mortal life but that we will know in the afterlife? Can you imagine going through this life not knowing that God exists only later to find out God does exist and that there was a reason for our mortal existence we never knew about?

Other believers get after me because I say “I know God exists” because they say I can only believe, I cannot know. I agree that God is a mystery and we cannot know God exists in the sense of having proof, but a person can know in a sense of having inner certitude. The reason I know is because of the evidence, not because of any personal spiritual experience. I was an agnostic before I was a Baha’i.

I do not base my beliefs upon emotions. I do not have feelings about God, just beliefs. I believe God is personal but I do not have a personal relationship with God because I do not think that is possible or desirable. God is exalted beyond anything that can ever be recounted or perceived so God does not have any relationships with humans. That is anthropomorphism. I believe that after we die we will be able to get closer to God but there is no way we can understand what that means until we get there.

Trailblazer said:

The Prophet for the current dispensation (age in history) is Bahá'u'lláh. He was born in 1817and died in 1892. He had a 30 year mission and wrote His own scriptures. All of them have not yet been translated into English, but those that have been are all in the Baha’i Reference Library: The Works of Bahá'u'lláh.

Baha’is believe that there is only one Prophet that is current at a time. Baha’u’llah was not the last Prophet that will ever come to earth, just the current Prophet. We believe that Prophets have come throughout all eternity and will continue to come for all of eternity. That is called Progressive Revelation and is the core of our theology.

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It's been over a century since your last prophet. Is the next one overdue? How often do prophets come? Who decides the identity of each new prophet? Has there been continuing controversy about the identity of some prophets in the past? Meaning some people thought some past guy was a prophet, but many others in your religion disagree?

Akivah said:

It's been over a century since your last prophet. Is the next one overdue? How often do prophets come? Who decides the identity of each new prophet? Has there been continuing controversy about the identity of some prophets in the past? Meaning some people thought some past guy was a prophet, but many others in your religion disagree?

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Major Prophets (or independent Prophets) who found new religions only come about every 500-1000 years.

Question.—How many kinds of Prophets are there?
Answer.—Universally, the Prophets are of two kinds. One are the independent Prophets Who are followed; the other kind are not independent and are themselves followers.

The independent Prophets are the lawgivers and the founders of a new cycle. Through Their appearance the world puts on a new garment, the foundations of religion are established, and a new book is revealed. Without an intermediary They receive bounty from the Reality of the Divinity, and Their illumination is an essential illumination. They are like the sun which is luminous in itself: the light is its essential necessity; it does not receive light from any other star. These Dawning-places of the morn of Unity are the sources of bounty and the mirrors of the Essence of Reality.

The other Prophets are followers and promoters, for they are branches and not independent; they receive the bounty of the independent Prophets, and they profit by the light of the Guidance of the universal Prophets. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in itself, but receives its light from the sun.

The Manifestations of universal Prophethood Who appeared independently are, for example, Abraham, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. But the others who are followers and promoters are like Solomon, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. For the independent Prophets are founders; They establish a new religion and make new creatures of men; They change the general morals, promote new customs and rules, renew the cycle and the Law. Their appearance is like the season of spring, which arrays all earthly beings in a new garment, and gives them a new life.

With regard to the second sort of Prophets who are followers, these also promote the Law of God, make known the Religion of God, and proclaim His word. Of themselves they have no power and might, except what they receive from the independent Prophets.
43: THE TWO CLASSES OF PROPHETS, Some Answered Questions, pp. 164-165

So that nobody would be misled by a false prophet, Baha’u’llah wrote that another Prophet could not come before the full expiration of 1000 years from when He announced His Mission, which would be no sooner than 2852:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p. 346

God decides the identity of the next Prophet because God sends speaks through the Holy Spirit to that man. A Prophet is more than an ordinary man. There is a lot more to it but loverofhumanity explained the nature of a Prophet in this post:

“Of the true nature of the Prophets we are told their bodies are human but their Soul was not conceived at conception like ours, but was pre existent. In that pre existence their Souls were given the ability and capacity to receive direct revelations from God.

Although They then had to translate that Revelation into a form we could understand, Their Words were endowed with an invisible spiritual force.” #218 loverofhumanity

It is true that there has been confusion as to who was a Prophet and who was not. Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha, His Son and the Centre of His Covenant, identified certain Prophets in their Writings so we know who is a Prophet. From the above passage we also know that no Prophets have come since 1852 and none will come before 2852. Certain individuals such as Joseph Smith have claimed to be Prophets but if they did not fulfill Bible Prophecies they cannot be a Prophet sent by God. My Baha’i friend told me that in the Qur’an it says that Prophets have come to every nation, but we do not know who they were, and they were not Major Prophets who brought revelations and founded religions. The Major Prophets we know about are as follows: Krishna, Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

Trailblazer said:

I agree that the Bible is history with a fictional overlay. I do not know that much about the Qur’an or the works of other revealed religions but the Baha’i Faith history has no fictional overlay since it is recent history that can be verified.

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Now think about that. Information, even today, is loaded with, even dominated by, fake news. It was ever thus.

ThePainefulTruth said:

Now think about that. Information, even today, is loaded with, even dominated by, fake news. It was ever thus.

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But what does that prove? Logically speaking, some news is fake but that does not mean all news is fake. Some news is real. We just have to decipher which is which, if we care.

Buddha Dharma said:

The Bible and Koran both contain accounts of God killing unbelievers for idolatry, apostasy, and blasphemy. The Bible says God made the earth swallow up some Jews for doubting Moses.

Why does God not today do this- if indeed that god is never-changing?

Why doesn't God make the earth swallow up atheists and other unbelievers? Why doesn't God consume people with a glance?

Is it that God has changed? God has lost his power somewhere? Or this God- the god of monotheism, doesn't exist?

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I believe he may very well be doing it but not announcing it. I also believe every death happens according to God's will except for suicide.

I believe God is being patient but part of the story is that we are near the end when almost all those who have not received Jesus as Lord and Savior will perish.

I believe not. Idolators survived for many years before the Babylonian Captivity.

I believe God uses his power judiciously.

I believe that qualifies as fantasy.

Nowhere Man said:

I'd go for the non-existent part.

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I believe there must be too much stinky smoke in your meditations.

robocop (actually) said:

Now that I think of it, this information is copywritten but I hope we can still be friends.

I will start you out by sharing a question that opens up this information, so I am sharing the first sentence: "If extra-terrestrials created us like an always repeating loop in parts of the Universe, why not simply make us like them, enjoy everything, have a meaningful and successful past in our memories, and be ready for space travel?"

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I believe this isn't quite what it appears to be. There were already races of men on earth when Adam and Eve were created as the first "humans." In fact it is not a new creation but the revival of an old race that had died out and the gods were doing it according to what God perceived that race to be ie in God's image.

I believe I have some human in my DNA but mostly I am Caucasian which means that I come from one or more of the alien races.

I believe you will find this hard to believe but most of the aliens were not gods and most likely had no desire to be gods.