Why do Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal God of the Old Testament?

JustWondering · Jan 27, 2018

Faithofchristian said:
So by all means, explain exactly how God could haved done it differently, without the killing of kids. Especially knowing when those kids got older, That would turn out just like their parents, Nephilim Giant's, eating humans for their food source.
Have you any idea exactly how tall those Nephilim Giant's we're.
If you were to take a kid between the ages of
3 to 5 years old and stand them next to someone who is 7 to 9 foot tall, that would give you an example how tall those Nephilim Giant's were standing next to a full grown man and woman. Not to mention that they also had super human strength to top it off with.

That have some scientist saying that it might have been these Nephilim Giant's that could haved built the pyramids of Egypt. Seeing how tall they were and had super human strength.
That just one or two of them, could haved lifted those big stones of the pyramids of Egypt in their place.
Just a thought to think about?

You need to cite sources for this Nephilim giant stuff. You are literally the first person I've ever heard talking about giants. Where are you getting this stuff?

JustWondering · Jan 27, 2018

loverofhumanity said:
An imperfect eye beholds imperfections.

Do you believe in a heaven or afterlife where there is no suffering?

JustWondering · Jan 27, 2018

KenS said:
Appaently you have made up your decision and built your case to support your decision while willfully ignoring the rest of the applicable details such as authority and free will.

Cite the verses in the bible that specifically show that God favors free will in his creation. NOT verses about god favoring or rewarding those who obey him, that only shows that he values obedience. If you can't cite any bible verses that specifically show that god meant to give us free will and he thinks its a good thing then your free will argument is garbage.

KenS said:
If God is not limited in His powers, how would you suggest He take care of it, Oh high and wise one?

He could have arranged from the beginning that evil people would never be born/exist in the first place. Easy since he knows everything right?

How about creating a universe where pain didn't exist and people couldn't hurt each other even if they wanted to?

A god level intellect could surely have created a universe better then one I can envision (one without suffering and evil in it), right?

JustWondering · Jan 27, 2018

KenS said:
No... it hasn't been debunked. But nice try.

It certainly hasn't been proven. There is NO evidence to support that consciousness exists outside of brain function. The problem with some theistic claims is that they lack credible evidence and/or contradict reality. If you want to convince a skeptic that possesses critical thinking skills and general knowledge about natural sciences you need to provide evidence to back up your claims.

AWARE Study Results Finally Published: Does Not Prove Life After Death | Mysterious Universe

Out-of-body experiences are the result of unusual brain activity, study claims | Daily Mail Online

Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

loverofhumanity · Jan 27, 2018

JustWondering said:
Do you believe in a heaven or afterlife where there is no suffering?

I believe in an afterlife but whether one suffers or not depends on his/her life here. Those who lived good lives will be very happy but those who did not will feel deep regret.

74x12 · Jan 28, 2018

JustWondering said:
Some obvious problems with your beliefs is that not everyone has heard the bible. So everyone hasn't been given fair warning. Second, psychopaths and sociopaths didn't choose to be the way they are, they were born with differently wired brains than the rest of us, they didn't have a choice. If the bible meshed with what I see and experience in reality I'd be a believer, but it doesn't, so I'm not.

According to the Bible; God judges people based on their knowledge level. So to those much is given, much is required. (Luke 12:48) I don't believe in a God that will punish people without a reason. God goes off the principle of reaping what you sow. So, just because someone wasn't born into a Christian family and therefore never heard the gospel or whatever that doesn't mean they'll be condemned. They can't be condemned for not knowing. Problem is everyone does things we know are wrong. I believe we're all judged first by our own conscience. Then by our level of knowledge and so forth. It's not that God doesn't want to show mercy. He actually delights in mercy; so shows it where He can.

As for psychopaths and sociopaths. Maybe they have no conscience or empathy. This could be a form of brain damage or something. I don't know how God will judge them and it's none of my business. As far as I know, the Bible is silent on this. However, there is at least one testimony of a sociopath that was changed by God. David Wood in his youtube video now claims he has empathy; when before he didn't have empathy.

Twilight Hue · Jan 28, 2018

JustWondering said:
Where did Noah and his family come from if EVERYBODY else where these Nephilim you're talking about? The first born of Egypt were all Nephilim giants? Don't remember seeing anything about that in the bible, or anywhere else for that matter. Second please provide biblical verses about the these giants. Sounds a lot like something crazy Alex Jones would rant about.

Most of the Bible attributes Canaanites as being descended from one of the sons of Ham. Canaan who was Noah's grandson.

Genesis 9:18

Estro Felino · Jan 30, 2018

Nowhere Man said:
The god of the Old Testament is evil depraved and vicious demanding complete subjugation.

Why do Christians even attempt to defend this, and then further say God is always good and righteous when in fact much of the Old Testament is choc full of God's actions and deeds that point to the extreme opposite of what good and righteousness is supposed to be?

I'll start off with this rather bizarre response from one of our favorite apologists on the subject of an evil God, Answers in Genesis.

Isn’t the God of the Old Testament Harsh, Brutal, Downright Evil?

And as a Christian, I ask you: Is there any difference between the God of the OT and the wicked vengeful gods of the Iliad and the Odyssey ?
They're both mythological figures....but people take only the OT seriously....
Example: Noah was real, but Deucalion and Pyrrha were not

JustWondering · Feb 1, 2018

loverofhumanity said:
I believe in an afterlife but whether one suffers or not depends on his/her life here. Those who lived good lives will be very happy but those who did not will feel deep regret.

So you believe it is possible for a world where suffering doesn't exist can exist, yes?

JustWondering · Feb 1, 2018

74x12 said:
According to the Bible; God judges people based on their knowledge level. So to those much is given, much is required. (Luke 12:48) I don't believe in a God that will punish people without a reason. God goes off the principle of reaping what you sow. So, just because someone wasn't born into a Christian family and therefore never heard the gospel or whatever that doesn't mean they'll be condemned. They can't be condemned for not knowing. Problem is everyone does things we know are wrong. I believe we're all judged first by our own conscience. Then by our level of knowledge and so forth. It's not that God doesn't want to show mercy. He actually delights in mercy; so shows it where He can.

So you admit you were wrong when you said everyone has fair warning. If everyone did have fair warning that still doesn't make torturing bad people a good act. Saying that god can do anything because he's god doesn't make what he does good. It says in the bible that god creates both good and evil. Why would a being that is only goodness and light EVER create evil and cause suffering? That would defy logic. Even a blood thirsty gangster can be loving to his family. That's how the god of the bible comes across. He gives allowances to his favorites and is ruthless with everyone else.

74x12 said:
As for psychopaths and sociopaths. Maybe they have no conscience or empathy. This could be a form of brain damage or something. I don't know how God will judge them and it's none of my business. As far as I know, the Bible is silent on this. However, there is at least one testimony of a sociopath that was changed by God. David Wood in his youtube video now claims he has empathy; when before he didn't have empathy.

It SHOULD be common knowledge in this day and age that brain function determines our behavior and personality. Some people are prone to violent thoughts and actions because their brain is wired that way. This is documented fact not opinion. If a god created everyone, then he created people with mental disorders that make them do bad things. That's reality and it doesn't mesh with the belief system many Christians hold.

loverofhumanity · Feb 3, 2018

JustWondering said:
So you believe it is possible for a world where suffering doesn't exist can exist, yes?

Not in this life because suffering here is a tool used to help us grow spiritually. But in another life it maybe not.

JustWondering · Feb 5, 2018

loverofhumanity said:
Not in this life because suffering here is a tool used to help us grow spiritually. But in another life it maybe not.

I don't buy it. How does suffering teach anything to a small child who dies a agonizing death from cancer or some other disease? Saying we need suffering in the world for some mysterious reason god can't tell us about is a cop out, plain and simple. Secondly, why is pain required to learn or grow? That doesn't make any sense.

loverofhumanity · Feb 7, 2018

JustWondering said:
I don't buy it. How does suffering teach anything to a small child who dies a agonizing death from cancer or some other disease? Saying we need suffering in the world for some mysterious reason god can't tell us about is a cop out, plain and simple. Secondly, why is pain required to learn or grow? That doesn't make any sense.

We don’t know all there is to know. There are other worlds apart from this one I believe.

Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you.

Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain. (Baha’u’llah)

JustWondering · Feb 7, 2018

loverofhumanity said:
We don’t know all there is to know. There are other worlds apart from this one I believe.

Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you.

Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain. (Baha’u’llah)

I have no use for wishful thinking. If something doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense. If somethings too good to be true then it's likely not true. It would be great if there were some amusement park in the sky waiting for us after we die but there is zero evidence for that. Additionally, the claims of religions like yours never mesh with reality. The only way to really get into religion it seems is to turn your back on reality and common sense. I just can't do that. I need more than unsubstantiated claims about invisible men in the sky.

loverofhumanity · Feb 7, 2018

JustWondering said:
I have no use for wishful thinking. If something doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense. If somethings too good to be true then it's likely not true. It would be great if there were some amusement park in the sky waiting for us after we die but there is zero evidence for that. Additionally, the claims of religions like yours never mesh with reality. The only way to really get into religion it seems is to turn your back on reality and common sense. I just can't do that. I need more than unsubstantiated claims about invisible men in the sky.

Do you know that the Baha’i laws, principles, ideas and teachings are currently being adopted worldwide by billions and seen as the cutting edge of ideas for today?

These are pragmatic workable ideas in this world not some mythical kingdom.

The equality of men and women. Freedom from all forms of prejudice of race, nationality, religion, class or gender. Have these things been established yet? No. Are these ideas on the agendas of the governments of the world? Yes. Do they come from Baha’u’llah? Yes.

If a family can only afford to educate one child it should be the girl as she is a potential future mother and if a mother is well educated then so will her children be.

Profit sharing. That workers in a business share in the profits made. If this is done properly workers will work more efficiently and strikes will disappear as they stand to lose or gain if the business prospers or fails.

A world or global ethic so no one religion can dominate and all religions and people see the world as one country and humanity as a family.

A world civilisation based upon human rights and ethics and virtues.

That the oneness and equality of all humanity, nations and religions is taught in all the schools of the world to promote world citizenship.

That war be abolished and expenditures of war are invested in universal free education, universal free Medicare and universal employment.

That science and religion work hand in hand.

A universal Auxilliary language to facilitate communication between people.

If you read the Writings of Baha’u’llah, you will find all these concepts and more incorporated together in one Faith offered to assist humanity to establish world unity and world peace.

The Baha’i Faith is the only organisation/religion/community which has one universal educational cirruculum established all over the world.

The UN promotes and spreads many of the laws and teachings of Baha’u’llah throughout the world such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Freedom of Religion, Equal status of women and outlawing things like racism.

We work together with all sorts of organisations and the UN for the betterment of the world.

These are not vague wishful hopes or thinking but realities in this life on the ground. We are rebuilding society from scratch. It’s very hard work. I fully agree that things like sitting cross legged in a cave meditating won’t achieve much if anything at all. We must act not dream.

United Nations Offices

One Human Family | What Bahá’ís Believe

JustWondering · Feb 8, 2018

loverofhumanity said:
Do you know that the Baha’i laws, principles, ideas and teachings are currently being adopted worldwide by billions and seen as the cutting edge of ideas for today?

These are pragmatic workable ideas in this world not some mythical kingdom.

The equality of men and women. Freedom from all forms of prejudice of race, nationality, religion, class or gender. Have these things been established yet? No. Are these ideas on the agendas of the governments of the world? Yes. Do they come from Baha’u’llah? Yes.

If a family can only afford to educate one child it should be the girl as she is a potential future mother and if a mother is well educated then so will her children be.

Profit sharing. That workers in a business share in the profits made. If this is done properly workers will work more efficiently and strikes will disappear as they stand to lose or gain if the business prospers or fails.

A world or global ethic so no one religion can dominate and all religions and people see the world as one country and humanity as a family.

A world civilisation based upon human rights and ethics and virtues.

That the oneness and equality of all humanity, nations and religions is taught in all the schools of the world to promote world citizenship.

That war be abolished and expenditures of war are invested in universal free education, universal free Medicare and universal employment.

That science and religion work hand in hand.

A universal Auxilliary language to facilitate communication between people.

If you read the Writings of Baha’u’llah, you will find all these concepts and more incorporated together in one Faith offered to assist humanity to establish world unity and world peace.

The Baha’i Faith is the only organisation/religion/community which has one universal educational cirruculum established all over the world.

The UN promotes and spreads many of the laws and teachings of Baha’u’llah throughout the world such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Freedom of Religion, Equal status of women and outlawing things like racism.

We work together with all sorts of organisations and the UN for the betterment of the world.

These are not vague wishful hopes or thinking but realities in this life on the ground. We are rebuilding society from scratch. It’s very hard work. I fully agree that things like sitting cross legged in a cave meditating won’t achieve much if anything at all. We must act not dream.

United Nations Offices

One Human Family | What Bahá’ís Believe

I don't need and certainly don't want some theocracy telling me how to live my life, especially when it's edicts are based on the commands of an invisible man in the sky. I realized without religion that I would rather live in a world where people treat each other with respect and have empathy for each other. You don't need religious mumbo jumbo for that, just common sense will suffice.

sandy whitelinger · Feb 8, 2018

David T said:
Because they are cluelessly normal.

Gee thanks. I don't have a clue what you mean.

sandy whitelinger · Feb 8, 2018

I

loverofhumanity said:
Do you know that the Baha’i laws, principles, ideas and teachings are currently being adopted worldwide by billions and seen as the cutting edge of ideas for today?

These are pragmatic workable ideas in this world not some mythical kingdom.

The equality of men and women. Freedom from all forms of prejudice of race, nationality, religion, class or gender. Have these things been established yet? No. Are these ideas on the agendas of the governments of the world? Yes. Do they come from Baha’u’llah? Yes.

If a family can only afford to educate one child it should be the girl as she is a potential future mother and if a mother is well educated then so will her children be.

Profit sharing. That workers in a business share in the profits made. If this is done properly workers will work more efficiently and strikes will disappear as they stand to lose or gain if the business prospers or fails.

A world or global ethic so no one religion can dominate and all religions and people see the world as one country and humanity as a family.

A world civilisation based upon human rights and ethics and virtues.

That the oneness and equality of all humanity, nations and religions is taught in all the schools of the world to promote world citizenship.

That war be abolished and expenditures of war are invested in universal free education, universal free Medicare and universal employment.

That science and religion work hand in hand.

A universal Auxilliary language to facilitate communication between people.

If you read the Writings of Baha’u’llah, you will find all these concepts and more incorporated together in one Faith offered to assist humanity to establish world unity and world peace.

The Baha’i Faith is the only organisation/religion/community which has one universal educational cirruculum established all over the world.

The UN promotes and spreads many of the laws and teachings of Baha’u’llah throughout the world such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Freedom of Religion, Equal status of women and outlawing things like racism.

We work together with all sorts of organisations and the UN for the betterment of the world.

These are not vague wishful hopes or thinking but realities in this life on the ground. We are rebuilding society from scratch. It’s very hard work. I fully agree that things like sitting cross legged in a cave meditating won’t achieve much if anything at all. We must act not dream.

United Nations Offices

One Human Family | What Bahá’ís Believe

Is this a popup ad for Bahai?

sandy whitelinger · Feb 8, 2018

Father Heathen said:
Because they were indoctrinated as children to believe that the bible is the inerrant word of an infallible god, and to always have blind, unquestioning faith in it (or they'll burn for eternity).

I was indoctrinated as an adult.

sandy whitelinger · Feb 8, 2018

socharlie said:
to understand OT you need to understand this:
Bicameralism (psychology) - Wikipedia

Wow, a yin and yang mind. Who knew?

Why do Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal God of the Old Testament?

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