Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I speak Arabic . . . nobody is going up to me asking this stuff. 
Gotta work my degree somehow I figure.
Gotta work my degree somehow I figure.
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The highly debated topic of the husband beating the “Nashez” wife in the holy Qur’an
- Thread starter mahmoud mrt
- Start date
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
You obviously don't realize there is no universal consensus on the matter. It is interpreted differently:
"Some jurists argue that even when beating is acceptable under the Quran, it is still discouraged.[nb 6][nb 7][nb 8] Ibn Kathir in concluding his exegesis exhorts men to not beat their wives, quoting a hadith from Muhammad: "Do not hit God's servants" (here referring to women). The narration continues, stating that some while after the edict, "Umar complained to the Messenger of God that many women turned against their husbands. Muhammad gave his permission that the men could hit their wives in cases of rebelliousness. The women then turned to the wives of the Prophet and complained about their husbands. The Prophet said: 'Many women have turned to my family complaining about their husbands. Verily, these men are not among the best of you."
See:Ibn Kathir 1981 vol I: 386, Sunan Abi Dawud, Book of Marriage #1834, ad-Darimi, Book of Marriage #2122; quoted in Roald (2001) p. 167
"Islam forbids beating women and warns strictly against it. The Prophet (Peace be upon Him) never beat any of his wives or servants, as his wife Aishah (may Allah exalt their mention) reported in an authentic tradition (Bukhari #2328). Women are, in general, weaker than men in their physique and stamina. Women are often unable to defend themselves against violence. Although beating of women is generally forbidden, Islam permits the beating of wives in a restricted and limited sense only as a final solution and acceptable valid reason when all else fails. This is analogous to spanking children when all else fails and they must learn a lesson in obedience for their own protection and success."
See:Wife Discipline - Misconceptions About Women - WomenInIslam.ws
Apparently the idea of "beating" is often (and rightfully so) associated with the brutal depiction of a man using either his fist or striking a woman in a violent manner. We forget that we do not live in 500 A.D. where ideas of corporeal punishment were different then as it is now.
The remedy to treat a wife blameworthy of immoral behavior, as we have noticed, comes in three gradual stages:
- First stage: The stage of advice, counseling and warning against Allah's punishment. A husband must remind his wife of the importance of protecting his rights in Islam. This stage is a very kind and easy one. But, if this treatment does not work and proves to be ineffective, then the husband may resort to the next stage.
- Second stage: To leave the wife's bed. Or, if one sleeps in the same bed with her, he will turn his back to her, not touch her, talk to her or have intercourse with her. This stage, as noticed, combines both strictness and kindness, although it is a very harsh practice on both. But, if this treatment does not work, then the husband may resort to the final stage of discipline explained below.
- Third and final stage: Beating without hurting, breaking a bone, leaving black or blue marks on the body, and avoiding hitting the face or especially sensitive places at any cost. The purpose of beating her is only to discipline and never retaliation or with desire to hurt by any means. Islam forbids severe beating as punishment.
The Prophet (Peace be upon Him) said:
"None of you should beat his wife like a slave-beating and then have intercourse with her at the end of the day".
[Bukhari #4908]
Mrs. Annie Besant (A women's rights activist) compared Islamic Laws and Western legislation on women's rights and said:
"Islamic Laws are among the best laws known to the world, insofar as woman is concerned. It is the most fair and just legislation. It exceeds the Western legislation concerning real estate, inheritance and divorce laws. It acts as a guardian for women's rights. Phrases such as One Wife is Sufficient for a man, and Polygamy, mystified people and turned them away from the real misery which Western women suffer from and live through. Many husbands left their wives after they got what they wanted from them. In fact such men show no care, concern or mercy for their wives."
Wife Discipline - Misconceptions About Women - WomenInIslam.ws
Srivijaya
Active Member
Seriously? This presupposes that a women are inferior to men and requiring of this sort of 'treatment' to sort them out. It is sexist in the extreme and indefensible. Does the reverse also apply if a man is misbehaving? Can a wife advise, withdraw sex and then beat him? No? Didn't think so.
That was exactly the point I made earlier. In 500 A.D. in Europe and everywhere else, things were very, very different. Society has moved on in the last 1,500 years but these rules haven't and they are not fit for purpose.
Beating up your wife in ANY circumstances is a failure and immoral. To use the final sanction of your physical size and strength is oppression, not love. Domestic assault will not make you a better person or help you find god.
If a relationship has sunk to the point where a husband is constantly so angry with his wife's behaviour that he feels like committing violence on her, it's time to call it a day and split, for everyone's sake.
Now I'm not saying that every Muslim is violent or would dream of beating his wife, as I'm sure there are plenty who are man enough not to feel good about beating up someone who is weaker than them. But - and this is the key point - Islam allows them to do so, in certain circumstances; which will be ultimately interpreted by an angry person on the spur of the moment.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
you missed the important part...Islam's prophet Muhammad forbade it!
But you also forget, we have "honor killings in parts of Asia/South-East Asia, parts of Africa that go beyond religious norms. We still live in a world where the people cross-education, will still interpret doctrine the way they want. But last but not least you missed the point of the "beating" is that it is not a violent act but a tap. I personally don't think this in essence is akin to women being inferior, I think it is a matter of the interpretation of the act itself and what it entails religiously. You also realize here even in the west men get abused by women. Society has instilled the idea that if a man who is abused by a woman goes to authorities he is weak, while a man who is abused defends himself is also weak because he defends himself against a perceived inferior, less strong person--that being a woman.
As you can see in the west there is still the perception subconsciously and consciously that women are inferior, and even some women themselves subscribe to this mentality. This is not localized to Islam itself but everywhere.
Srivijaya
Active Member
So what are we discussing then? How Islam forbids any violence against women? Okay, I'm all in favour of that. Just that it feels like the goalposts have moved a bit. I have the feeling that the more one tries to pin those scriptures down, the more they slip out of ones grasp.
People will always misuse religion to commit vile acts. The question is, to what extent is the religion ambiguous when it comes to such deeds and to what extent can its followers find "justification" for such acts in their scriptures.
A tap? Just a light tap?
Nobody should have to suffer abuse and a man has the same rights in law if he is a victim of it.
Absolutely right for certain people.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
In regards to the bold I think people more than likely have an issue of the word "beating" than the actual discipline. I also believe even Muslims themselves in highly conservative areas take the actual Arabic word and translation (which I defer to anyone who speaks Arabic and is knowledgeable about this) quite literally as well.
mahmoud mrt
Member
It seems that many members here have zero respect for the holy Qur’an and Islam in general
I’ve shared a very important concept in understanding the holy Qur’an, this concept I use to refute any violent or terrorist idea or support constantly. Some members responded respectfully, and I thank them for this. Other responded with deep hatred and disrespect
The Main concept that I’m not just a Muslim by birth, since I became an adult and even before this I analyzed Islam and the holy Quran very thoroughly and deeply. The main thing to understand is First to have respect, When I analyzed the holy Qur’an with respect I believed it to be the words of God. You have the right to Not believe, but to disrespect or hate is wrong.
Try to understand that the holy Qur’an addresses all Cultures throughout history, the very most of Muslims do not want to force our believes or way of life on other nations, So you can do whatever you want in your country, why do you want to impose your culture into our countries persistently?, and disrespect us for not believing or acting the way you do, thinking that your way of life is the Only perfect one. By this you make the same mistake of extremists in every religion and ideology.
Try to understand, Disagree with respect, to be different is the way God created us, so at least we can disagree with kindness and respect.
Holy Qur’an, Surah 49 Al-Hujurat, verse 13: O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
Some here have mentioned that Islam as Anti-feminism, In fact I respect feminism and see that Islam encourages feminism in the respectful way even better than many feminists do. I support the Malala Fund and its goal to give every young girl a future by Education ad empowerment, and fight child marriage. And for the ones who don’t know Malala Yousafzai is a proud Muslim Girl, She calls herself a feminist while she wear her modest covering Islamic clothes, Having western friends and Muslim friends evenly.
So before you attack blindly try to understand first with respect, if you do, you’ll find a common ground with us.
Regards,
Mahmoud
I’ve shared a very important concept in understanding the holy Qur’an, this concept I use to refute any violent or terrorist idea or support constantly. Some members responded respectfully, and I thank them for this. Other responded with deep hatred and disrespect
The Main concept that I’m not just a Muslim by birth, since I became an adult and even before this I analyzed Islam and the holy Quran very thoroughly and deeply. The main thing to understand is First to have respect, When I analyzed the holy Qur’an with respect I believed it to be the words of God. You have the right to Not believe, but to disrespect or hate is wrong.
Try to understand that the holy Qur’an addresses all Cultures throughout history, the very most of Muslims do not want to force our believes or way of life on other nations, So you can do whatever you want in your country, why do you want to impose your culture into our countries persistently?, and disrespect us for not believing or acting the way you do, thinking that your way of life is the Only perfect one. By this you make the same mistake of extremists in every religion and ideology.
Try to understand, Disagree with respect, to be different is the way God created us, so at least we can disagree with kindness and respect.
Holy Qur’an, Surah 49 Al-Hujurat, verse 13: O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.
Some here have mentioned that Islam as Anti-feminism, In fact I respect feminism and see that Islam encourages feminism in the respectful way even better than many feminists do. I support the Malala Fund and its goal to give every young girl a future by Education ad empowerment, and fight child marriage. And for the ones who don’t know Malala Yousafzai is a proud Muslim Girl, She calls herself a feminist while she wear her modest covering Islamic clothes, Having western friends and Muslim friends evenly.
So before you attack blindly try to understand first with respect, if you do, you’ll find a common ground with us.
Regards,
Mahmoud
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Srivijaya
Active Member
That's very positive. Why do you think there is so much violence in the name of Islam?
She's an inspiration to everyone.
mahmoud mrt
Member
This is because as I analyze to 2 factors:
1- Many Muslims Sanctify History and Traditions “Hadiths” Books even more than the holy Qur’an itself. These books are a result of history & wars of the middle ages and it contain many fakes conveyed as the word of God or teachings and doings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him or his companions. To fight this it’s very important to raise awareness among Muslims that the Only holy Book is the Qur’an, and that we judge any sentence in these books by comparing it to the whole holy Qur’an, then either disregarding completely or containing & constraining it in the historical time and circumstances, Not applying it to nowadays. Only Accepting hadiths the do not contradict with the holy Qur’an.
Keep in mind that there are 1 million Traditions “Hadiths” in these books, yes it’s not a typo, 1 million hadith, In the Saheeh books alone there are 60 thousands hadith. It’s impossible for the very most of Muslims to memories or analyze them, so this made a dependency on Scholars, keeping in mind this Sanctification in the background. Any Terrorist scholar can easily brain wash many Muslim youth. What made this worse is there are many Muslims youth suffering from poverty and unemployment, which made them ideal candidates for this brainwashing.
What made this even worse is that even most of the official moderate scholars who fight terrorism contradict themselves by ensuring that these hadith books keep being sanctified. This is the most horrible selfish crime in history. They do this to keep their status and profits by being the only persons to fully understand Islam.
Reading, Reading & Again Reading is the key to eliminate this threat of brain-wash, Muslim youth have to read a lot in the holy Qur’an and its meanings from different sources, and stop enslaving themselves to Scholars, The very first word revealed in the holy Qur’an is “Read”. But Sadly Reading died to be a habit in the most of the Muslim World since centuries.
2- Many Muslims, as I said do not read even the holy Qur’an which is a small book. So mainly they listen occasionally in the Friday prayer, or at transportation, This is a huge problem, the holy Qur’an urges and orders Muslims to think thoroughly in the meanings not just listen to it like a song or melody.
To realize what happens from this ignorance, we Must consider the famous Double standards of many western world governments treating Israel Preferably over Muslim Arabs and Palestinians, ignoring day to day crimes committed by the Israeli military. I do Not justify terrorists acts done by Hamas or other Palestinians military groups, both crimes should be equally condemned, but Muslims see that in the 90th hundreds of thousands of Muslims were Slaughtered and raped by Christian orthodox Surbs in Yugoslavia, and the west only reacted after more than 6 years, They see how the Rohingya Myanmar Muslims are killed and kicked out of their homes and the west does nothing. They see the Palestinians kicked out of their homes, prohibited from prayer in the Aqsa Mousq, killed and treated worse than animals day by day.
So taking the above into consideration when the Ignorant Muslim hear the holy Qur’an, they prefer to project their feeling of discrimination on the verses that talks about criminal disbelievers, and they ignore the verses that Illustrate and Emphasis on justness and kindness. This is the curse of ignorance, stupid feelings projection. This made a mode of hatred from many Muslims towards any non-Muslim, thus sadely making it more easy to brainwash.
She indeed is, God Bless her.
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Srivijaya
Active Member
Thanks for the very well thought out reply. I get what you are saying about the information overload. It's no coincidence that Terrorist scholars often recruit in prisons.
That's a shame because people rely on them to interpret and lead.
Knowledge is always empowerment. Allowing a person to reach their own conclusions.
Correct and it is indefensible and inexplicable. Especially in the case of the Israeli land grab. It's so obvious what's going on there that it beggars belief.
No doubt this is a big factor.