Angelogical/Demonological Fallacies

Sasa · Aug 15, 2006

FFH said:
Yes, and I tend to come off as being pretty serious, and basically am most of the time, concerning the truth's of God. I hate to see misconceptions amongst believers of God, just as you do.

The term angel is used in different ways in different religions. I understand that there will be confusion amongst the different religions concerning this. I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from.

I take things seriously too, but perhaps for a different reason. Like I said, I'm human, but I do try to keep in sight what's most important - and that is what I'm in service to God to do as his Chosen One which is lead his lost sheep to safety before it's too late.

If you believe in God and his son Jesus Christ, you're not lost - so, there's really no point in arguing the fine details of things and sometimes I can get caught up in that because I know the truth. But I also can't expect everyone to believe it just because I say so. I mean, I fully understand that it would be hard for anyone to accept the fact that myself and other ministers of our ministry are in the company of Angels of the Cherubic Order.

So... like Becky said, so long as you're (the general you, not you personally) not lost, to each his own but I will continue to share the truth. If you are lost and still not accepting of the truth, well, that's a different story but I still can't convince or twist arms or force people to believe. Sometimes I wish I could though, because I know God wants everyone to obtain eternal life, but unfortunately that's just not the way it works due to a little thing called Free Will.

Sasa · Aug 15, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
I say your source is wrong as you say mine is. I say my information comes straight from God. Either way we'll agree to disagree

LOL Yes we will... But I sure wish you could see the look on a Cherub's face when you say he's wrong. Yeesh! Especially the Supreme Commander. In fact..now that I think of it you can see that if you visit the website listed in my profile. That's exactly what the expression would look like.

Bishka · Aug 15, 2006

Sasa said:
LOL Yes we will... But I sure wish you could see the look on a Cherub's face when you say he's wrong. Yeesh! Especially the Supreme Commander. In fact..now that I think of it you can see that if you visit the website listed in my profile. That's exactly what the expression would look like.

You beloieve waht you believe and I believe what I believe.

Sasa · Aug 15, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
You beloieve waht you believe and I believe what I believe.

Okay now you're just cracking me up. Didn't we just agree to do that?

FFH · Aug 15, 2006

zombieharlot said:
Don't you believe, as an LDS, that everyone goes to heaven though?

There are so many varyiing degrees of beliefs and acceptance of God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and just as many varying degrees of righteousness and sin to go along with those beliefs.

Edit: This is my extremely condensed and simplified version of the three degrees of glory and outer darkness.

For a more correct and accurate version read this: Doctrine and Covenants 76

Celestial Kingdom- Those who accept the fullness of the Father (These will receive all that the Father has, and will be God's and rule over their own kingdoms.

Terestrial Kingodom- Those who reject the fullness of the Father but accept Jesus Christ.

Telestial Kingdom- Those who reject the fullness of the Father, and Jesus Christ, but accept the Holy Ghost. (The vast majority of this earth's population, that has ever lived, or are now living, will obtain this glory, which is said to be better than this earth's existence)

Outer Darkness- Those who reject the fullness of the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. (Basically people like the final antichrist, terrorists, etc. fit into this catagory)

gnostic · Aug 15, 2006

Then what of Jew, since they only accept the Father, but not Jesus and the Holy Ghost? Would the Jews be accepted in the Celestial Kingdom?

Not that Jews would accept Christian's or Mormon's version/interpretation of heaven and hell, or even the afterlife.

Booko · Aug 15, 2006

gnostic said:
Then what of Jew, since they only accept the Father, but not Jesus and the Holy Ghost? Would the Jews be accepted in the Celestial Kingdom?

Not that Jews would accept Christian's or Mormon's version/interpretation of heaven and hell, or even the afterlife.

Wouldn't Shekhinah do for the Holy Ghost?

FFH · Aug 15, 2006

gnostic said:
Then what of Jew, since they only accept the Father, but not Jesus and the Holy Ghost? Would the Jews be accepted in the Celestial Kingdom?

Not that Jews would accept Christian's or Mormon's version/interpretation of heaven and hell, or even the afterlife.

The vast majority of Jews will accept Jesus Christ as their savior, at a later date, scriptures prophecy this.

Edit: Everyone will have a chance to accept or reject Jesus Christ as their savior, either in this life or the next.

Jesus has stated, "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me"

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

FFH said:
The vast majority of Jews will accept Jesus Christ as their savior, at a later date, scriptures prophecy this.

That's correct. It extends not only to Jews but anyone who has not accepted Christ as the son of God and our savior. That's the purpose of the 2nd Rapture. For those who didn't accept Christ before the 1st Rapture, to have a second chance to change their heart conditions. It's simply another indication that God will give us every opportunity at eternal life. He truly is a loving and righteous God.

Bishka · Aug 16, 2006

Sasa said:
That's correct. It extends not only to Jews but anyone who has not accepted Christ as the son of God and our savior. That's the purpose of the 2nd Rapture. For those who didn't accept Christ before the 1st Rapture, to have a second chance to change their heart conditions. It's simply another indication that God will give us every opportunity at eternal life. He truly is a loving and righteous God.

What Biblical evidence is there to actual puport an actual rapture like the 'disapeaaring' of the people?

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

FFH said:
There are so many varyiing degrees of beliefs and acceptance of God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and just as many varying degrees of righteousness and sin to go along with those beliefs.

Edit: This is my extremely condensed and simplified version of the three degrees of glory and outer darkness.

For a more correct and accurate version read this: Doctrine and Covenants 76

Celestial Kingdom- Those who accept the fullness of the Father (These will receive all that the Father has, and will be God's and rule over their own kingdoms.

Terestrial Kingodom- Those who reject the fullness of the Father but accept Jesus Christ.

Telestial Kingdom- Those who reject the fullness of the Father, and Jesus Christ, but accept the Holy Ghost. (The vast majority of this earth's population, that has ever lived, or are now living, will obtain this glory, which is said to be better than this earth's existence)

Outer Darkness- Those who reject the fullness of the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. (Basically people like the final antichrist, terrorists, etc. fit into this catagory)

I think you already know that I respect your beliefs, but for the sake of educating others on the truth, which is my duty, I have to say that it's simply not that complicated. The only separation that will be done is here on earth, between those who believe and have what would be judged as a "good" heart condition and those who don't.

Once on the upper planes of Heaven, there is no further division because everyone has gone through the Baptismal light and agreed to abide by God's Sovereign Laws. By the time that has happened, if they didn't believe before but had committed no vile crimes, they have already been counseled on the truth and have accepted God and Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) is not an actual "being", it is the energy that comes from God and Jesus Christ. Other than that and provided it's prior to Armageddon and the fruition of Christ's Kingdom, the only other locations anyone could go to would be the Abyss, or the Lake of Fire (2nd Death).

Bishka · Aug 16, 2006

Sasa said:
I think you already know that I respect your beliefs, but for the sake of educating others on the truth, which is my duty, I have to say that it's simply not that complicated. The only separation that will be done is here on earth, between those who believe and have what would be judged as a "good" heart condition and those who don't.

Once on the upper planes of Heaven, there is no further division because everyone has gone through the Baptismal light and agreed to abide by God's Sovereign Laws. By the time that has happened, if they didn't believe before but had committed no vile crimes, they have already been counseled on the truth and have accepted God and Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) is not an actual "being", it is the energy that comes from God and Jesus Christ. Other than that and provided it's prior to Armageddon and the fruition of Christ's Kingdom, the only other locations anyone could go to would be the Abyss, or the Lake of Fire (2nd Death).

Again, your truth, not ours or others. Please remember that as you post.

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
What Biblical evidence is there to actual puport an actual rapture like the 'disapeaaring' of the people?

While the specific word Rapture is not mentioned in the Bible, there are many verses that refer to it. The word Rapture comes from the Latin verb rapere which means to carry off, abduct, seize or take forcefully. It was used in the Latin Vulgate translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 which is the primary biblical reference to the Rapture. In addition 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Matthew 25:13 also refer to the Rapture

Those people that are potentials to be Raptured alive in the future, will have their hearts examined throughly before Christ will permit them to be caught away to him and Sanctified. Those that are successfully Raptured will be changed in the twinkling of an eye to spiritual bodies. The main things to remember for those in the Rapture, are these things: (1) Declared Righteous. (2) Resurrected from Sinful death by Rapture. (3) Santification by passing through the Light into Christ's Kingdom. Scripture References:

2 Corinthians 12:2-4 "I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don't know; God knows. I know that this manwhether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knowswas caught up into paradise. He heard inexpressible words, which a man is not allowed to speak." Paul was given the psychic vision of the Third Heaven.

1 John 2:27"The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don't need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie; just as it has taught you, remain in Him." For the Anointed.

John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth." Sanctification of the truth concerning Yahweh's Will. This is part of the counsel Christ and his Counselors give for Santification via entry to the Light.

John 1:12, 13 "But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God." Revealing that you will be reborn in the Kingdom; not of flesh and blood, but of spirit.

2 Corinthians 1:21 "Now the One who confirms us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God;" Being Baptised into Christ's Kingdom by Yahweh.

James 1:18"By His own choice, He gave us a new birth by the message of truth so that we would be the firstfruits of His creatures." This applies to the Holy Ghosts that are on the Ladder of Authority. They were given a new birth to Sanctification by learning the Truth prior to pre-Light entry.

John 6:39, 40 "This is the will of Him who sent Me: that I should lose none of those He has given Me but should raise them up on the last day." (The day of the final and second Rapture. Those that prove faithful will be caught up to him, just as those in the first Rapture were. That way, Christ loses none of those that repent and become positive energy.) "For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." The "last day" is the final Rapture train off this planet. After that, it is curtains for those that remain behind.

Romans 6:5 "For if we have been joined with Him in the likeness of His death, we will certainly also be in the likeness of His resurrection." Christ's death was to bore our sins through his death. His ressurection was to spirit; your "death" is the removal of sin, and to be changed in the twinkling of an eye to a spiritual body like Christ has.

1 Corinthians 15:42-49 "So it is with the resurrection of the dead: Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption; sown in dishonor, raised in glory; sown in weakness, raised in power; sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being ; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. Like the man made of dust, so are those who are made of dust; like the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly. And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly man." Jesus is the "last Adam." "the spiritual is not first, but the natural" means that those that passed over and later Crossed Over were made up of natural mankind - not born in Heaven previously. They make up the Holy Ghosts on the Ladder of Authority. "then the spiritual." refers to those that are later Raptured alive to spirit life. The natural mankind dies off or is killed. They are at the pre-Light stage, and so they were the first Holy Ghosts because they died over the centuries by physical death. Then, those Raptured become spiritual without physical death; they are the latter.

1 Corinthians 15:52 "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." This refers to the final Rapture; but it also applies to both Raptures, because it describes how you are ressurected from the cousion of sin - death. It is stated that way because in Yahweh's eyes, we are all dead unless we repent and seek Christ. When that happens, at the Raptures the sin deserving of the eternal death penalty is shed off of yopu, and you are raised to an incorruptible eternal life, so long as you do not disobey Yahweh's Will. Remember this: Sin is corruption. It is also disobedience. If you obey, you will live for eternity.

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
Again, your truth, not ours or others. Please remember that as you post.

I'm not keeping anyone from believing what they want to believe. All I'm doing is telling the truths that have been relayed to me by the Cherubic Order. I'd appreciate it if you allow others to make up their own minds as well. We already know where you stand. Thank you.

Bishka · Aug 16, 2006

Sasa said:
I'm not keeping anyone from believing what they want to believe. All I'm doing is telling the truths that have been relayed to me by the Cherubic Order. I'd appreciate it if you allow others to make up their own minds as well. We already know where you stand. Thank you.

Most of them already have their own descions about their faiths. This site is not to convince or convert, but to share and educate.

Hacker · Aug 16, 2006

Sasa said:
I think you already know that I respect your beliefs, but for the sake of educating others on the truth, which is my duty, I have to say that it's simply not that complicated.

How did you know that you were "chosen" to educate others on the truth? Please don't take this as if I do not believe you, because I don't know but I'm really curious to know how you were called. I appreciate your willingness and desire to spread the word, and you have answered some questions I've been pondering, thank you.

Sasa said:
I'm not keeping anyone from believing what they want to believe. All I'm doing is telling the truths that have been relayed to me by the Cherubic Order

What is the Cherubic Order if you don't mind me asking?

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
Most of them already have their own descions about their faiths. This site is not to convince or convert, but to share and educate.

Maybe, maybe not. I've also already stated that I'm not trying to convince or twist arms nor will I try to. In fact, educate is the exact word I used in a prior post. And that's what I'm doing - or attempting to do. Here's a couple quotes from my prior posts in case you missed them.

Sasa said:
I think you already know that I respect your beliefs, but for the sake of educating others on the truth, which is my duty,

Sasa said:
I still can't convince or twist arms or force people to believe.

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

tlcmel said:
How did you know that you were "chosen" to educate others on the truth? Please don't take this as if I do not believe you, because I don't know but I'm really curious to know how you were called. I appreciate your willingness and desire to spread the word, and you have answered some questions I've been pondering, thank you.

What is the Cherubic Order if you don't mind me asking?

I'm very happy to hear that I've managed to answer some questions for you. There were always a lot of things that I pondered and it's been fascinating to learn all the little things that seem to fill in the blanks. I have a journal started on this forum that will help to explain the answers to your two questions. This is the link: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/journal.php?do=showjournal&j=158 (I'm hoping it works) You can also visit the site listed below in my signature for further information.

Sasa · Aug 16, 2006

Snowbear said:
Huh - my understanding is that *resurrection* is to be brought back to life after one has died.

Okay. I know what I did and please pardon my mistake - I think my mind was on overload earlier with all the questions. I was saying Resurrected but thinking Ascended. Christ first ascended to his Father before anyone else could. That's all I'm able to comment on this subject because it really goes beyond the primary message(s) they want us to give.

sojourner · Aug 16, 2006

Sasa, I want to comment on something you said on page 4. You said (paraphrasing) that humanity are "mere pawns" in a cosmic chess game between God and Satan. I don't believe the Bible tells us that humanity is "merely" anything. We are created just lower than the angels. We received the breath of God in creation. We are accepted as sons and daughters of God. God does not use us as "pawns" in "games." One does not use those one loves -- as we are truly God's beloved.

How do you reconcile this kind of faulty theology with angelic revelation?

Angelogical/Demonological Fallacies

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