Repentance after death

I believe it totally goes against the nature of God to condemn Any meek, charitable, humble, honest person who has a heart of gold and follows their conscience. There are many Buddhists, atheists, and polytheists who have those virtues.

The dead will be resurrected before being judged. After being resurrected and discovering the truth, how do you know they cannot repent, believe in the truth, accept the necessary defense attorney, and be saved?

I'm amazed at how many Christians argue against this possibility and say there's no Second Chances. Yet they cannot produce one shred of evidence from scripture that says that.

Even if they could, the Bible contradicts itself on this issue... The Bible actually has more verses in favor of Universal reconciliation than it does for Eternal damnation.

The way I see it, if God is not actually loving, just, merciful, then I do not want to spend eternity with him. I want to spend eternity with other spirits who are kind, thoughtful, etc and will follow where that leads me.

PopeADope said:

I believe it totally goes against the nature of God to condemn Any charitable, humble, honest person. There are many Buddhists, atheists, and polytheists who have those virtues.

The dead will be resurrected before being judged. After being resurrected and discovering the truth, how do you know they cannot repent, believe in the truth, accept the necessary defense attorney, and be saved?
.

Click to expand...

I think that is actually a great question... It always amazes me how people want to decide what is only in God's authority to do!

PopeADope said:

Repentance after death

Click to expand...

What happened from within my NDE:

Hell is the lowest quantum dimension, so it is like being in the soil or dense matter everywhere around us; you're stuck trapped, and condensed with many other none enlightened souls, so it is a dull shade of murk.

The souls down there all have issues of having ego before soul in life, so they didn't realize what they'd become on the inside...

Plus since we've just had a chance to see the ramifications of our actions in our life's flash back; it also maintains many go to this dark place to begin with...

Yet those who recognize their own inner demons, in a place full of the worst sorts of sickness, like, accusers, slanderers, haughtiness, arrogance, pride, obviously all the really evil intents; yet it was interesting that there were so many taker types of character flaws as well...

Heaven in contrast is ultimately giving, and Hell is ultimately taking.

Anyways personally realized my own iniquity, apologized, then called "yet I know Oneness!" and really meant it from the very root of my soul...

Which was like a candle becoming illuminated in the darkness...

Then was pulled up in a big tractor beam through the dimensions to the Core of reality.

It is like the CPU doesn't want us to go off against it; yet due to equal opposite reactions, some of us are mental, and don't realize we can not live without the CPU creating reality, and yet they hate it for some weird reason.

As for Buddhist, many of them have more chance of finding Nirvana, as long as they didn't attach it as an earthly place of existence, as 0neness and Nirvana are the same thing in many ways.

Simply put repentance means "returning towards the Light".

In my opinion.

PopeADope said:

I believe it totally goes against the nature of God to condemn Any meek, charitable, humble, honest person who has a heart of gold and follows their conscience. There are many Buddhists, atheists, and polytheists who have those virtues.

The dead will be resurrected before being judged. After being resurrected and discovering the truth, how do you know they cannot repent, believe in the truth, accept the necessary defense attorney, and be saved?

I'm amazed at how many Christians argue against this possibility and say there's no Second Chances. Yet they cannot produce one shred of evidence from scripture that says that.

Even if they could, the Bible contradicts itself on this issue... The Bible actually has more verses in favor of Universal reconciliation than it does for Eternal damnation.

Click to expand...

I doubt God will make any mistake of separating even one truly meek, humble, honest person from Himself or that any person will end up suffering eternal damnation, other than those who have so hardened their hearts and minds against God's truth to the point that they would never desire change even given an eternity to do so. I believe each person is given second, third, and hundreds of opportunities in this life to stop worshiping self, repent, and forsake sin, turning instead to God's love and goodness.

I think the real problem is that we minimize our sin and think of it as no big deal. We all do it because of our fallen nature. We also compare ourselves to others and think we are honest or humble more than those who are obviously (in our minds) really selfish or arrogant and bad.

Those who protest the idea of eternal, conscious suffering use words like, “cruel,” “morally revolting,” "horrendous”, etc., but sure don’t use the same terms of outrage to describe their sin. Why? Because people are not outraged by sin because they fail to see sin as God sees sin. If we cannot see our sin as God sees it, or realize the infinite enormity of sin, then it stands to reason that we do not understand the just judgment of eternal justice as He sees it either.

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:10-15

"Thought: Death brings change, not annihilation. The resulting change is an eternal one--forever in the presence of God or forever separated from Him, forever living or forever in the state of dying."

-- A.W. Tozer

Change Not Annihilation

idea said:

The way I see it, if God is not actually loving, just, merciful, then I do not want to spend eternity with him. I want to spend eternity with other spirits who are kind, thoughtful, etc and will follow where that leads me.

Click to expand...

It is not your subject to choose. If God exists and is the sole authority of the universe and beyond there is nothing you can do or whatever desires you have you do not have the right to legislate anything because you are a creation of this plane of existence and are subject to him so in reality or metaphysically it does not matter what you want.

People forget God is not confined to our idea of choice or freedom of the will or even in the books in all the worlds that is written. God can forgive Adolf Hitler if he chooses, or turn me into a Pokémon in the next life. God is not subject to any logic or any humanly conceived principle that makes sense to us.

Epic Beard Man said:

It is not your subject to choose. If God exists and is the sole authority of the universe and beyond there is nothing you can do or whatever desires you have you do not have the right to legislate anything because you are a creation of this plane of existence and are subject to him so in reality or metaphysically it does not matter what you want.

Click to expand...

I do not believe I was created - conservation of mass, conservation of energy, conservation of intellgence - I believe all things are eternal and un-created with no beginning and no end, eternally changing form.

The creator is diminished by the imperfect nature of their creation if we are in deed created...
if not created? (as it appears from the existence of our free will is the case) then we are free to roam, act, and interact - our actions only confined by the free will of others around us. The laws of the universe and nature of free fill dictate that kindness and love lead to increased knowledge and union with what we are surrounded with - my loyalties lie with principles, rather than with any being. I hope to become close to those who also follow the same principles, and if there is a being who is 100%loving and merciful, I would love to meet them! I believe the eternal natural laws will prevent malicious, controlling, power hungry beings from being able to eternally ensnare or entrap anyone though, and will hold to the notion that we are all free to interact and eternally exist in our own natural realm.

PopeADope said:

I believe it totally goes against the nature of God to condemn Any meek, charitable, humble, honest person who has a heart of gold and follows their conscience. There are many Buddhists, atheists, and polytheists who have those virtues.

The dead will be resurrected before being judged. After being resurrected and discovering the truth, how do you know they cannot repent, believe in the truth, accept the necessary defense attorney, and be saved?

I'm amazed at how many Christians argue against this possibility and say there's no Second Chances. Yet they cannot produce one shred of evidence from scripture that says that.

Even if they could, the Bible contradicts itself on this issue... The Bible actually has more verses in favor of Universal reconciliation than it does for Eternal damnation.

Click to expand...

If you believe the orthodox ideology, they have judged for you. Your insight may (I say may) be well founded. The Father judges the heart and the works of it. He wants the whole world to see and do his will over the will we were given through our carnal understanding.

At the end of the Apocalypse of Peter, Peter prays so hard for those who were suffering (after death) to be given mercy. When God see's Peters faith and love, he complies. The early RCC called the AoP canon and was read every Easter in the catholic church for centuries. Then the RCC removed it.

And unto them, the godly, shall the almighty and immortal God grant another boon, when they shall ask it of him. He shall grant them to save men out of the fierce fire and the eternal gnashing of teeth: and this will he do, for he will gather them again out of the everlasting flame and remove them else whither, sending them for the sake of his people unto another life eternal and immortal, in the Elysian plain where are the long waves of the Acherusian lake exhaustless and deep bosomed;- AoP

At the end, someone has added words saying that church father Origen added the words.

Some artless iambic lines of uncertain date are appended here, which show what was thought of the doctrine:

' Plainly false: for the fire will never cease to torment the damned. I indeed could pray that it might be so, who am branded with the deepest scars of transgressions which stand in need of utmost mercy. But let Origen be ashamed of his lying words, who saith that there is a term set to the torments.'

It just shows the fierce hold that the orthodox view wanted to implement to gain followers. And the spiritual battle between ignorance and knowledge (of the Spirit). The non canon Gospels doesn't talk of "hell fire" but does clarify perish and eternal. A loving God doesn't show love by scaring the "hell" out of you. He shows his love by example.

Lost and saved are better uses. Light and darkness. There is a god who murderers and one who doesn't.

Orthodoxy see's both as the same. I do not.

Epic Beard Man said:

or turn me into a Pokémon in the next life

Click to expand...

He'll get tired of everyone wanting to be Mewtwo.

It's like this time I dreamed I died and met Yamma. He started to get annoyed I kept asking if I could go to King Kai's planet. Apparently he felt offended I thought it should be like Dragonball. Still, got to meet King Kai.

That's the beauty of being taken to a state of existence where physical rules don't really apply: you CAN be anything you want to be, which is why the idea you can't just walk out of hell is silly. Ask Sisyphus.

idea said:

I do not believe I was created - conservation of mass, conservation of energy, conservation of intellgence - I believe all things are eternal and un-created with no beginning and no end, eternally changing form.

The creator is diminished by the imperfect nature of their creation if we are in deed created...
if not created? (as it appears from the existence of our free will is the case) then we are free to roam, act, and interact - our actions only confined by the free will of others around us. The laws of the universe and nature of free fill dictate that kindness and love lead to increased knowledge and union with what we are surrounded with - my loyalties lie with principles, rather than with any being. I hope to become close to those who also follow the same principles, and if there is a being who is 100%loving and merciful, I would love to meet them! I believe the eternal natural laws will prevent malicious, controlling, power hungry beings from being able to eternally ensnare or entrap anyone though, and will hold to the notion that we are all free to interact and eternally exist in our own natural realm.

Click to expand...

Well I think you are wrong in your assertion but hey I was merely commenting on your post. You cannot question someone who designed you from the atomic structure to the macro. You are subject to God in this plane of existence. But since you don't believe so have at it haus!

PopeADope said:

I believe it totally goes against the nature of God to condemn Any meek, charitable, humble, honest person who has a heart of gold and follows their conscience. There are many Buddhists, atheists, and polytheists who have those virtues.

The dead will be resurrected before being judged. After being resurrected and discovering the truth, how do you know they cannot repent, believe in the truth, accept the necessary defense attorney, and be saved?

I'm amazed at how many Christians argue against this possibility and say there's no Second Chances. Yet they cannot produce one shred of evidence from scripture that says that.

Even if they could, the Bible contradicts itself on this issue... The Bible actually has more verses in favor of Universal reconciliation than it does for Eternal damnation.

Click to expand...

I see the resurrection differently than you do. The resurrection to me is a spiritual one rather than a physical one. There are many aspects to this that I can explain if you want me to. At any rate after death we ascend to a spiritual world where we review our life for all of the good and bad it has. This does not include revealing to us whether we have the complete truth or not. So a Buddhist would not know about the Reality of Christ for example. The Buddhist, if he follows the truths of Buddhism may be in pretty good shape. He'll find out though, that there is no reincarnation and that we have a soul that lives on. I see no passages in the NT where Christ says that those who don't believe in Him will suffer eternal damnation. Rather He says that those that don't believe in Him can be forgiven. It's just that those who don't believe in Him will not be as spiritual as they could be. As a Baha'i I believe in Baha'u'llah and I believe that those who don't believe in Baha'u'llah will not have as spiritual a life as I do. Faith and works are both rewarded. God is merciful and forgives many sins. In addition to all those, it is possible for those who died without believing in Baha'u'llah to believe in Baha'u'llah it's just that it's not guaranteed.