The highly debated topic of the husband beating the “Nashez” wife in the holy Qur’an

Nakosis · Jan 24, 2018

mahmoud mrt said:
I posted this topic in Islam Dir to discus with fellow Muslims, I also want to discuss it with non-Muslims so I post it again here

Here we tackle the highly debated topic of the husband beating the “Nashez” wife, which means arrogantly hurting her husband by means of letting the persons he hates into the house, & arrogant disobedience.

First, we must mention the nature of the holy Qur’an, the holy Qur’an is a small book leading to one integrated sentence, Which means that The holy Quran is Not an arranged topic by topic chapter by chapter book, it’s a Net of orders and stories closely related diversely located.

Which means that to understand the holy Qur’an’s point of view in any subject you must bring in front of you each and every verse related to the topic including a verse in the beginning of the book, a verse in the middle, and a verse at the end, etc., Then Read these diversely located verses as a one integrated sentence.

This Golden Rule in understating the holy Qur’an is known to all top Academic Muslims Scholars and is a key to understand the Holy Qur’an.

What the extremists violent groups do is that they intentionally ignore this Golden rule and pic one verse, isolate it and build their wrong criminal ill judgment on this incomplete isolated verse. They even sometimes pic only a part of a verse not even completing it.

The holy Qur’an clearly Blames and condemns any person who divides the holy Qur’an not understanding it as one integrated sentence:

Holy Qur’an, Sura 15 Al-Hijr:

[Verse 90: Just as We had revealed [scriptures] to the separators
91: Who have made the Qur'an into portions.
92: So by your Lord, We will surely question them all
93: About what they used to do.]

Now we get back to beating the “Nashez” wife, this was mentioned in the holy Qur’an in Sura 4 An-Nisa’:

[Verse 34: Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear “Noshooz: Nashez” arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.]

Let us see how to holy Qur’an explains beating the wife "Surah Sad “The Letter Saad” Sura 38:

[Verses 41: And remember Our servant Job, when he called to his Lord, "Indeed, Satan has touched me with hardship and torment."
42: [So he was told], "Strike [the ground] with your foot; this is a [spring for] a cool bath and drink."
43: And We granted him his family and a like [number] with them as mercy from Us and a reminder for those of understanding.
44: [We said], "And take in your hand a bunch [of grass] “Deghth” and strike with it and do not break your oath." Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back [to Allah ].]

These verses speak of the Prophet Ayub “Job” peace be upon him, and the word “Deghth” is a bunch of grass filling the hand, because when he was ill in the bed he swore to hit his wife a hundred lashes when he heals, the reason for this is not mentioned because the holy Qur’an respects the in-house privacy, so God ordered him to take a bunch of 100 pieces of grass and strike with it only one strike,

This is the beating of the “Nashez” wife, something very symbolic and does not contain any pain, just a handful of soft grass or other stuff that does not hurt, Only a kind of caress that leads to a message to women, and even this as a last resort and chosen according to the husband's assessment of the feasibility with his wife and cultural and social background. There are two solutions before it, namely preaching and abandonment in bed.

Regards,
Mahmoud

Why do men have authority over women? I understand the idea that men provide the wealth, but men can screw up just as much if not more so than women. Men can squander to finances and resources of the household as easily as any man.

Why do men get to keep women in check but who's to keep the men in check?

So at best the beating should be 50-50. If women screw up you want to caress them with a hand full of grass, ok. Why shouldn't women folk possess the right to be caressing the men folk with grass when they screw up?

YmirGF · Jan 24, 2018

Nakosis said:
Why do men have authority over women? I understand the idea that men provide the wealth, but men can screw up just as much if not more so than women. Men can squander to finances and resources of the household as easily as any man.

Why do men get to keep women in check but who's to keep the men in check?

So at best the beating should be 50-50. If women screw up you want to caress them with a hand full of grass, ok. Why shouldn't women folk possess the right to be caressing the men folk with grass when they screw up?

There is nothing approaching equality in a divinely ordained patriarchy

mahmoud mrt · Jan 24, 2018

Akivah said:
I once discussed the topic of wife beating with Muslims also. The consensus that I got is that beating a wife is permissible in Islam, but the instrument of beating must be no thicker than a pencil and no bruises can be made. I believe the term was "lightly striking".

This is a common misconception among Muslims, this is because of some Prophet’s Traditions “hadiths” in the books.

I am From the Muslims who disregards any tradition that contradicts with the holy Qur’an as a whole.

mahmoud mrt · Jan 24, 2018

YmirGF said:
Do you realize that this doesn't make a lick of sense to the non-Muslim perspective?

The point in the only 3 times divorce limit is to make sure it’s not a divorce game, when the ex-husband feels the pain that his ex-wife married another person, then when he re-maries her he will be much more reluctant to divorce her again, Same to the wife,

YmirGF said:
I have been given the same information by Muslims here on RF. The thing is, a very thin and long tree branch could still result in quite a stinging little intruder.

Yes, that’s why I Disagree with the Traditions “Hadiths” that allows "lightly striking", it should be as the Qur’anic verse of the prophet “Ayub” Job verse: with very soft material like the grass which inflicts No pain at all.

YmirGF · Jan 24, 2018

mahmoud mrt said:
The point in the only 3 times divorce limit is to make sure it’s not a divorce game, when the ex-husband feels the pain that his ex-wife married another person, then when he re-maries her he will be much more reluctant to divorce her again, Same to the wife,

Yes, that’s why I Disagree with the Traditions “Hadiths” that allows "lightly striking", it should be as the Qur’anic verse of the prophet “Ayub” Job verse: with very soft material like the grass which inflicts No pain at all.

Thank you for your noble efforts to make this barbaric custom seem reasonable. Don't you think it might be more progressive to simply abandon these silly notions once and for all?

Nakosis · Jan 24, 2018

YmirGF said:
There is nothing approaching equality in a divinely ordained patriarchy

It's hard to dismiss the misogyny of the Abrahamic religions. In the past it was accepted. With modern morality, they try to find ways to justify it.

The need to justify one's treatment of women based on religious ideology at all shows there is something inherently wrong with the belief, IMO.

So the moment they start trying to justify their treatment of women, you know that's not a religion you want your family to be apart of.

lostwanderingsoul · Jan 24, 2018

Any book or religion that says it is OK to hit a woman is a book or religion from Satan, not God.

sealchan · Jan 24, 2018

mahmoud mrt said:
I posted this topic in Islam Dir to discus with fellow Muslims, I also want to discuss it with non-Muslims so I post it again here

Here we tackle the highly debated topic of the husband beating the “Nashez” wife, which means arrogantly hurting her husband by means of letting the persons he hates into the house, & arrogant disobedience.

First, we must mention the nature of the holy Qur’an, the holy Qur’an is a small book leading to one integrated sentence, Which means that The holy Quran is Not an arranged topic by topic chapter by chapter book, it’s a Net of orders and stories closely related diversely located.

Which means that to understand the holy Qur’an’s point of view in any subject you must bring in front of you each and every verse related to the topic including a verse in the beginning of the book, a verse in the middle, and a verse at the end, etc., Then Read these diversely located verses as a one integrated sentence.

This Golden Rule in understating the holy Qur’an is known to all top Academic Muslims Scholars and is a key to understand the Holy Qur’an.

What the extremists violent groups do is that they intentionally ignore this Golden rule and pic one verse, isolate it and build their wrong criminal ill judgment on this incomplete isolated verse. They even sometimes pic only a part of a verse not even completing it.

The holy Qur’an clearly Blames and condemns any person who divides the holy Qur’an not understanding it as one integrated sentence:

Holy Qur’an, Sura 15 Al-Hijr:

[Verse 90: Just as We had revealed [scriptures] to the separators
91: Who have made the Qur'an into portions.
92: So by your Lord, We will surely question them all
93: About what they used to do.]

Now we get back to beating the “Nashez” wife, this was mentioned in the holy Qur’an in Sura 4 An-Nisa’:

[Verse 34: Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear “Noshooz: Nashez” arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.]

Let us see how to holy Qur’an explains beating the wife "Surah Sad “The Letter Saad” Sura 38:

[Verses 41: And remember Our servant Job, when he called to his Lord, "Indeed, Satan has touched me with hardship and torment."
42: [So he was told], "Strike [the ground] with your foot; this is a [spring for] a cool bath and drink."
43: And We granted him his family and a like [number] with them as mercy from Us and a reminder for those of understanding.
44: [We said], "And take in your hand a bunch [of grass] “Deghth” and strike with it and do not break your oath." Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back [to Allah ].]

These verses speak of the Prophet Ayub “Job” peace be upon him, and the word “Deghth” is a bunch of grass filling the hand, because when he was ill in the bed he swore to hit his wife a hundred lashes when he heals, the reason for this is not mentioned because the holy Qur’an respects the in-house privacy, so God ordered him to take a bunch of 100 pieces of grass and strike with it only one strike,

This is the beating of the “Nashez” wife, something very symbolic and does not contain any pain, just a handful of soft grass or other stuff that does not hurt, Only a kind of caress that leads to a message to women, and even this as a last resort and chosen according to the husband's assessment of the feasibility with his wife and cultural and social background. There are two solutions before it, namely preaching and abandonment in bed.

Regards,
Mahmoud

I greatly appreciate your exposition here. I am very uninformed about the teachings of the Qur'an but your introduction to its interpretation is very intriguing.

If anyone disrespects anyone else (man or woman) there is a certain requirement that an individual feel free to respond with self-respect and dignity. The wisdom implied in the use of 100 blades of soft grass suggests such wisdom.

But the deeper wisdom is to examine the relationship. If anyone (man or woman) holds de facto power over another the temptation to assume that authority tends to devolve into a deafness towards the contrasting needs of others. The woman's behavior seems to indicate an underlying dissatisfaction which is not being adequately addressed. Wisdom would dictate that it is this dissatisfaction which has not been allowed, perhaps, to be sincerely expressed (and not matter-of-factly ignored/suppressed) that is the true evil in this situation and in this relationship. Both parties may be equally responsible but in a patriarchy it is the man's responsibility to not run the marriage like a dictatorship. I recommend couple's counseling with a guarantee that the man in this relationship isn't automatically correct.

sealchan · Jan 24, 2018

Nakosis said:
It's hard to dismiss the misogyny of the Abrahamic religions. In the past it was accepted. With modern morality, they try to find ways to justify it.

The need to justify one's treatment of women based on religious ideology at all shows there is something inherently wrong with the belief, IMO.

So the moment they start trying to justify their treatment of women, you know that's not a religion you want your family to be apart of.

It is from our modern point of view...but somehow religion or no, that wouldn't have changed the sexual politics of everyday life in the all-too-common mysogeny of our various cultural pasts and presents. MeToo# shows us that even in a pro-equality culture we still have work to do.

Nakosis · Jan 24, 2018

sealchan said:
It is from our modern point of view...but somehow religion or no, that wouldn't have changed the sexual politics of everyday life in the all-too-common mysogeny of our various cultural pasts and presents. MeToo# shows us that even in a pro-equality culture we still have work to do.

Maybe, I suspect religious ideology is inherent in western culture.

It's hard to know what western culture would really be like without the Christian influence.

Srivijaya · Jan 24, 2018

mahmoud mrt said:
I respect this point of view, but I kindly disagree with it, Example by Example in my relatives, friends and family proves to me that the old rules are the right way to organize the family. I say organize, not constantly reminding your spouse with it blaming him or her.

To what extent are the unhappy couple just obeying the rules because society demands it of them, rather than addressing the causes of their unhappiness.

Human beings need these rules as the last resort when the family integrity is at stake, I don’t assume that the wife is an employee in a company, that’s why I mentioned the verse where it clearly command of consultancy and kindness between the two.

These rules state that, the final recourse can be a wife-beating (I guess if all else fails). I can't see how beating up a woman will win her love or respect. Even if your religion and culture force her to stay with you, she will never forgive that and will despise you in her heart for ever.

LuisDantas · Jan 24, 2018

sealchan said:
It is from our modern point of view...but somehow religion or no, that wouldn't have changed the sexual politics of everyday life in the all-too-common mysogeny of our various cultural pasts and presents. MeToo# shows us that even in a pro-equality culture we still have work to do.

While what you say is very reasonable, there is a hurdle that may prove difficult to overcome.

Namely, Islaam's self-imposed duty to avoid learning better.

Bid‘ah - Wikipedia

Coupled with the emphasis on Islaam as a "complete way of life", meaning that all aspects of the life of a Muslim are supposed to follow the expectations of the Qur'an, that results in a very static society, one that actually disapproves of change as a goal.

sealchan · Jan 24, 2018

LuisDantas said:
While what you say is very reasonable, there is a hurdle that may prove difficult to overcome.

Namely, Islaam's self-imposed duty to avoid learning better.

Bid‘ah - Wikipedia

Coupled with the emphasis on Islaam as a "complete way of life", meaning that all aspects of the life of a Muslim are supposed to follow the expectations of the Qur'an, that results in a very static society, one that actually disapproves of change as a goal.

I know from my experience with members of my own faith what the response to my next statement is probably going to be from most people...

I would hope that in understanding what is good or bad Bid'ah, it is recognized that the entire Qur'an is composed of subtly, potentially contradictory statements that must be read as "one integrated sentence" and that the only real challenge to Islam is that a new thought or religious teaching contradicts the fact that truth is an integrated whole. Calling all new ideas contradictory to the Qur'an would probably be the error of taking one statement from the Qur'an out of proper context.

I think the static-ness of a society is co-dependent on the interpretation of the scripture and that blaming one or the other is less likely true than that both have evolved together in a greater environment to produce reactionary, xenophobic attitudes. Wars and subjugation tend to do that to a culture in many cases.

Epic Beard Man · Jan 24, 2018

@mahmoud mrt give it up man. Unless you have knowledgeable Muslims responding here as well, you're outnumbered. A lit of people here dislike Islam man.

LuisDantas · Jan 24, 2018

And what reasons could we possibly have for such a stance, @Epic Beard Man ? Perhaps those of the actual Qur'an and Islaamic doctrine?

Then there is the matter that such hypothetical knowledgeable Muslims seem to be very discreet, not only in these forums but also on the world a large. Plenty of people attempt to defend the reputation of Islaam and of the Qur'an, but the results tend to be very disappointing - not for lack of passion, mind you.

Sometimes something looks indefensible because it actually is indefensible.

YmirGF · Jan 24, 2018

Epic Beard Man said:
@mahmoud mrt give it up man. Unless you have knowledgeable Muslims responding here as well, you're outnumbered. A lit of people here dislike Islam man.

Heaven forbid anyone point out the inherent misogyny that is divinely ordained in the patriarchy that is Islam, eh?
And what, exactly, is there to like about Islam? It's a perfectly horrid ideology.

danieldemol · Jan 24, 2018

In the Baha’i faith there is no wife beating.

Srivijaya · Jan 24, 2018

I think the bottom line is that in any civilized society it's called assault and it's illegal.

Epic Beard Man · Jan 24, 2018

LuisDantas said:
And what reasons could we possibly have for such a stance, @Epic Beard Man ? Perhaps those of the actual Qur'an and Islaamic doctrine?

Then there is the matter that such hypothetical knowledgeable Muslims seem to be very discreet, not only in these forums but also on the world a large. Plenty of people attempt to defend the reputation of Islaam and of the Qur'an, but the results tend to be very disappointing - not for lack of passion, mind you.

Sometimes something looks indefensible because it actually is indefensible.

I just noticed anyone who isn't proficient in the language of Arabic nor is knowledgeable of Islam as a whole tend to become endlessly argumentative no matter if the truth was explained to them. I just recall my experiences here even defending Muslims against some of the vitriol that was exercised here and the reception I received. "OH I thought you were Muslim" (because I will not stand idle while some of you (not you in particular) bully Muslims? I often times see people online as armchair scholars who know truly nothing about Islam beyond media coverage and what they literally read from the book. I also learned you cannot change a leopard's spots regardless if you had the ability. This discussion is no different. Many of you are too comfortable with your biases and no matter what can be explained intellectually, you'll have a counterargument and are too far gone with the attitude of close-mindedness.

Epic Beard Man · Jan 24, 2018

YmirGF said:
Heaven forbid anyone point out the inherent misogyny that is divinely ordained in the patriarchy that is Islam, eh?
And what, exactly, is there to like about Islam? It's a perfectly horrid ideology.

Point of the misogyny in Judaism and Christianity, or that or Buddhist culture or western culture. Or in Greek and Roman culture. Too many of you are too focused on Islam that there are a plethora of other cultures that have this same attitude. Or what about the Hindu caste system in which racism and classism thrives.....There are plenty faiths and cultures to pick on.

The highly debated topic of the husband beating the “Nashez” wife in the holy Qur’an

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