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Why Is Jesus As A Sacrifice OK?

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
There's the precedent of Abraham and Isaac. I think that near-miss and Jesus are the only two episodes of human sacrifice. If I remember correctly what Sister Mary Oreganata taught was that the sin of Adam and Eve was so grave that there was no atonement possible other than a life. And there was no life pure enough to make such a sacrifice, so God decided to incarnate and offer himself.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
There's the precedent of Abraham and Isaac. I think that near-miss and Jesus are the only two episodes of human sacrifice. If I remember correctly what Sister Mary Oreganata taught was that the sin of Adam and Eve was so grave that there was no atonement possible other than a life. And there was no life pure enough to make such a sacrifice, so God decided to incarnate and offer himself.

None of which makes sense in the face of the Christian god allegedly being all-powerful, does it?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
There's also Jephthah's daughter.
G-d never commanded that. That man promised to sacrifice the first thing to come from his house on his return. That happened to be his daughter. G-d had no say and never approved it.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
None of which makes sense in the face of the Christian god allegedly being all-powerful, does it?

I've never understood it. The contradictions lead me to believe that what is now the Bible was a compilation from several stories, writers and traditions. Oddly, I don't think that invalidates it, but gives it a multi-layered quality.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
G-d never commanded that. That man promised to sacrifice the first thing to come from his house on his return. That happened to be his daughter. G-d had no say and never approved it.
Did I say it was commanded by God?

It's a human sacrifice in the Bible that isn't condemned. If it's a cautionary tale at all, the message is "don't make promises you'll regret keeping," not "don't sacrifice people to honour God."

The way the story reads, it gives the impression that God would have been angered if Jephthah failed to keep his promise, and that God might have been just as happy if Jephthah had promised to sacrifice a slave or something.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Why is it alright in the Christian religion for Jesus to be a human sacrifice when all throughout Tanach G-d dismays of such practices and does not command them?
As one who see's the OT god and Jesus Father as two different entities, Jesus taught us to sacrifice our lives as he sacrificed his. This is being born again, when we die to the old way (flesh). He taught of something the OT never had (or knew). The Holy Spirit. Without it, you cannot truly live (or be alive).
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Why is it alright in the Christian religion for Jesus to be a human sacrifice when all throughout Tanach G-d dismays of such practices and does not command them?
My guess would be, because Jesus wasn't fully human. Moreover, he was specifically put on earth to be crucified. He was fulfilling his duty; therefore, he wasn't a sacrifice. :shrug:

.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why is it alright in the Christian religion for Jesus to be a human sacrifice when all throughout Tanach G-d dismays of such practices and does not command them?
What's interesting is that this concept really wasn't pushed in the early church, maybe realizing that it might be a theological construct from Paul that shouldn't be taken literally.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Did I say it was commanded by God?

It's a human sacrifice in the Bible that isn't condemned. If it's a cautionary tale at all, the message is "don't make promises you'll regret keeping," not "don't sacrifice people to honour God."

The way the story reads, it gives the impression that God would have been angered if Jephthah failed to keep his promise, and that God might have been just as happy if Jephthah had promised to sacrifice a slave or something.
Sacrificing sons and daughters is condemned multiple times in Torah.


"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer[...]" Deut 18:10

"You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." Deut 12:31

"Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place, and offered him as a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land." 2 Kings 3:27


"Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him." 2 Kings 17:17

According to commentaries, Jepthath was reprimanded and died horribly. In Judges 12:7 it says that Jepthath was buried in towns. In other words, he was torn limb from limb and his bones are scattered. He was denied a proper burial.


“Then Jephthah the Gileadite died and he was buried in the towns of Gilead.”
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Sacrificing sons and daughters is condemned multiple times in Torah.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer[...]" Deut 18:10

"You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." Deut 12:31

"Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place, and offered him as a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land." 2 Kings 3:27

"Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him." 2 Kings 17:17

No argument there. The Torah seems to run hot and cold on the issue, condemning it sometimes (as you pointed out) and praising it in other cases (Abraham & Isaac, Jephthah).

According to commentaries, Jepthath was reprimanded and died horribly. In Judges 12:7 it says that Jepthath was buried in towns. In other words, he was torn limb from limb and his bones are scattered. He was denied a proper burial.
And you're saying that he was punished horribly not for sacrificing his daughter, but for not letting her marry (or whatever your take on the story is)?

The straightforward reading of the text is that God accepted the sacrifice at the time, but punished Jephthah for it later.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Sacrificing sons and daughters is condemned multiple times in Torah.


One of the many reasons I don't see the OT god and Jesus Father as the same.

John 6:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Father with a capital F.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
There's the precedent of Abraham and Isaac.
That's not a precedent because Isaac was never sacrificed and in context of the rest of the chapter it's pretty clear that the entire event was just meant as a test for Abraham and Isaac wasn't intended to be sacrificed.

The command itself is a double entendre. It can be read as:
Take your son Isaac and go to the land of Moriah and bring him up as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will tell you​
It can also be read as:
Take your son Isaac and go to the land of Moriah. And bring up as a burnt offering on one of the mountains that which I will tell you.
Meaning the one that should be brought up as a burnt offering on one of the mountains will eventually be told to Abraham. The reason for this ambiguous phrasing is to allow room for the test without the command turning into a lie.
 
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