I'm sure that we basically believe what we believe... and I am fine with that so that we both understand that we can still be amicable with differing viewpoints (which I believe you are that type of person)
So my answer is just to share my position... as you said "As you are, obviously, freely able to do. As I am freely able to reject it" in which we both subscribe to.
You can give the "yes", but I can't accept it. The only way that God can ONLY be credited with "good" is if, by his very definition/nature/being His acts are what define the term "good". Meaning that He can only "do no wrong" because he is God, and He decides what is "right" and "wrong" - that he basically OWNS the concepts "right" and "wrong" and can do with them what he pleases.
That He owns the concepts of "right" and "wrong", I can agree with. That He can do with them what He pleases... I would disagree.
If He said "lying is wrong", He doesn't lie.
However, that view makes God out to be pretty much totalitarian, and there is no hope that anything we say or do will hold sway with God.
I can understand how that would be a logical conclussion. BUT (
I'm sure you knew that was coming", I would disagree with that position.)
Take, for instance, God and Abraham in Gen 18 as it appears that you can talk to God and what you say can alter outcomes.
You even seem to recognize that people can hold different, subjective opinions on what is "good" or "bad". There isn't much difference in God deciding for us what is good or bad (without ever having engaged us in any discussions on the topic) and God simply being "right" no matter what He does. He could change "good" at any time and we would be expected to follow suit.
I don't think we are talking apples and apples here. Where were you and I when the dictates were established?
Or for that matter, in the world we have laws that say you can get married at 11, 15, 18 or marry a child if you want. And we want to have our opinions as what morality should be? Hey, we can't even do that in one country let alone as mankind.
So, yes, He had every right to set the terms.
Just imagine - as God is held to be a "father" figure of sorts - just imagine if your own father never, ever accepted any criticism at all from you. In fact, what if to criticize your father possibly incurred punishment? This would mean your father could make a mistake that affects you negatively - possibly even a terrible one - and never even feel the need to apologize. In reality, there are people who have just such relationships with their fathers... and do you think those people would call their relationship with a father like that "good?"
As flawed humans... you are correct.
And yet many claim that God knows exactly what we'd be doing with that inspiration anyway. So, He is at least an enabler of all of the things we do that end up being "bad" for ourselves or other beings of the planet, isn't He?
I don't think that if A then B automatically means C since we are free will spiritual agents with self determination.
Even our laws dictate this point. I taught my son to drive safely and not exceed the speed limit. I gave him a car since he is in college and needs to get there and back. He exceeded the speed limit and got a ticket. I am not classified as the enabler. My son did wrong because he chose to do wrong and he reaped the results.
Perhaps you don't hold that God is omniscient, and knows the future - fine. He still continues to give us such "inspiration" knowing that we have either squandered it, or taken wrongful advantage of it in the past.
Certainly you are making me think....................
I guess it is how one want to look at it. Suppose someone knew beforehand that their grandson was going to invent a medicine that would save 1 milliion people over time. However, suppose he also knew beforehand that their son was going to have this medicine-child illegitamately and leave the mother and child and squander his life away into nothingness. Do you not have the child because of what he will become? Or do you have the child because you know that the future generations are contingent on the birth of the grandson the medicine-child?
I think we would have the child anyway.
God may have known that there was going to be many Kings of Israel and Judah that would be evil, but He also knew that The Word needed to come as a man to save future generations.
Each person has his own free will -- it is God's gift to mankind. What we do with it is up to us. If we exceed the speed limit and get a fine, it is our fault not his. IMV
As you are, obviously, freely able to do. As I am freely able to reject it,
I can respec that
and hold that God either:
- exists as a poor example of moral judgment from a human perspective, is totalitarian, and wishes to simply decide what morality is for us and impose His will without a single word being able to be gotten in edge-wise from the actual creatures being held to the standard
- simply does not exist - my preferred, and truthfully believed scenario
Understand and respect your position though, of course, not in agreement for above reasons.
I
HAVE enjoyed the time we have discussed this. Appreciate your demeanor.