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Liberal Christians: Why is it bigoted for Christians to believe they’re part of the true religion

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Yes-but the real test is when you discover it isn't.....what then?

That was my experience with Christendom. I was raised to believe that they were the right religion, despite their bickering factions, these were Christ's disciples. On observation, I discovered that they were not even close. I tried other 'branches' but found their teachings much the same. After I left, I never went back.

We are all free to choose what faith we will subscribe to and what we will reject....for whatever reason.

Are you permitted to openly criticize the beliefs you once held and then found were not "right" after all?

Yes. If you find that the faith you left has glaring inconsistencies, (that being a total failure to adhere to Christ's teachings) then follow Jesus' example and expose them like he did with the Pharisees. Just keep in mind though, how those who believed the Pharisees viewed Jesus and his apostle. Not all "failures" are genuine. Some of it is "fake news" so we have to learn to tell the difference. Popularity wasn't going with this religious territory. (John 15:18-21)

Are you permitted to interpret or reinterpret the religious dogma and tenets of your own "faith"? That's the real test of tolerance. That's the beef @SinSaber seems to have with liberal Christians - they reject conservative and traditional interpretations in favour of more radical and rational versions and it is clear from the language that this is perceived as a threat.

Jesus was perceived as a threat to the status quo by the religious leaders who poisoned people against him.....but it was the Pharisees who were in fact the real threat. Which side did the majority of Jews take? The "right" side? They thought so...and still do. We take a different view.

Since scriptural truth is not revealed all at once, but gradually unfolds over time, there is room for adjustments IMO. It's only details anyway...the basic doctrines remain the same. No Christian in the first century was permitted to interpret scripture for themselves. Doing so just introduces factions and results in disunity. (2 John 10-11) All must speak in agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

If one really did have "the Truth", the one and only "right" religious view - what possible threat could mistaken opposition pose? How could any fallible humanist or secular thinking pose any real and present danger to the conservative faithful?

There is no threat to truth and never has been. The truth has never changed, it has just come to be better understood. But weaker or less experienced souls can be stumbled by lies and misinformation, just as Eve was. There are no new tactics.

A "mistaken opposition view" poses no threat to those who have the truth. The obligation on the part of those who believe that theirs is the right view, will be able to provide evidence of God's backing. They will know what they believe and why they believe it.
Their big picture will make perfect sense to those whose hearts long for scriptural answers to their many questions. That was my experience.

Spiritual hunger is everywhere today because people are finding the material life promoted by this world, devoid of spirituality, to be empty and unsatisfying.

Yet, many of the clergy are as much in the dark as their flocks. That is a truly sad situation. (Isaiah 65:13-14)

What is really at stake if I (for example) dissent? My life or your faith? That's the question.

I guess it's all about what you expect. If you expect God's worshippers to be somehow perfect and without mistakes, then look back at Israel. The fact that many of them let God and their brothers down on many occasions, did not make God abandon them. Sometimes we expect more from our brothers than God does. A bad experience can make people sour on the whole organization. It happens. But faith does not depend on what humans do....it sees what God is doing in spite of their imperfections.

And that seems to be at the root of religious intolerance as far as I can tell. "The Lord" really does seem to be a "jealous God" - and with good reason - because there's not much room for an intolerant God demanding "exclusive devotion" in a world that is tolerant and accepting of diverse religious beliefs.

If God wasn't a stickler for truth, he'd be a wishy-washy, mamby-pamby, poor excuse for a deity. He has laws and standards and he sees to it that these are carried out among his own people. For those outside, he offers them what he offers to all, an opportunity for everlasting life. He doesn't coerce or force anyone to do or to believe anything.....that he leaves up to our own hearts. We tell God every day who and what we are. It is he who then issues an invitation to come into his presence and approach him by means of his appointed mediator. (John 6:44)

And to any fair-minded outsider, it all just seems like so much unnecessary pots and kettles calling each other black - and the world would be so much better off without any of them.

No denying that. It's the old story about hiding a 40 ft tree out in the middle of a cleared field. Original Christianity stood out like that 40 tree, but it was foretold that an 'enemy' would plant a virtual forest of similar looking trees all around it. As time went on, it would become extremely difficult to find the original. People today are lost in the forest until God sends a guide with a compass and shows them the way out of the maze.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
You live in Australia. That's not a Rubbish dump.
file.o.jpg

Australia has some beautiful places...a lot of effort is put into tourist areas to keep them in pristine condition.

images
images
images


Sydney Harbor is world class, but when people do not respect their surroundings, it results in scenes like this on a morning after....

beach620-1-600x400.jpg


https://www.3aw.com.au/english-backpacker-defends-st-kilda-beach-party/
https://www.3aw.com.au/english-backpacker-defends-st-kilda-beach-party/
This what English backpackers did to a Melbourne beach on Christmas Day. This is not how you respect your own place or anyone else's. This is a mentality I just do not understand.
 

Skipper

Wrong is wrong,/ Make America moral again.
when a conservative Christian says that Christianity is the one true religion, you call them bigots. But, if someone from a different religion says the same thing about their religion, you affirm them.

Hypocrisy? Political bias? Humanist hatred?

Nowhere in the Bible can I find any verse condoning bigotry. Bigotry indicates a prideful attitude. Pride is a sin. Nowhere in the Bible can I find a verse allowing discrimination against any group. I can find where the outcasts, the hated groups are to be helped, to be treated well .... just look at Jesus' parables.

Bigotry and pride violate the teachings of Jesus, including the Sermon on the Mount. As Christians, we are not to be bigoted or prideful. We should be thankful and be a blessing to others.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Nowhere in the Bible can I find any verse condoning bigotry. Bigotry indicates a prideful attitude. Pride is a sin. Nowhere in the Bible can I find a verse allowing discrimination against any group. I can find where the outcasts, the hated groups are to be helped, to be treated well .... just look at Jesus' parables.

Bigotry and pride violate the teachings of Jesus, including the Sermon on the Mount. As Christians, we are not to be bigoted or prideful. We should be thankful and be a blessing to others.

It's there. Esau and Edom for example. Many examples actually.
 

Skipper

Wrong is wrong,/ Make America moral again.
It's there. Esau and Edom for example. Many examples actually.

Old Testament, not what Jesus taught and lived.If you pick and select individual verses and ignore Christ's teachings you are going to end up with errors in your beliefs.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Perhaps in human-derived conservative beliefs, but not in Christ. Any teachings that promote hatred or bigotry toward others is not of Christ.

Did Jesus himself liken the Samaritan woman to a dog? Did he whip money-changers out of the Temple? Did he command his followers to have righteousness above that of the Pharisees? Did he command a man to remove his own eye, if it offends? Did Isaiah and other nationalist prophets declare, in God's name, that Israel would be the spiritual hub of all Nations?

There's a stigma attached to the word 'bigotry'. If you're consistent, you will see past that stigma.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Did Jesus himself liken the Samaritan woman to a dog? Did he whip money-changers out of the Temple? Did he command his followers to have righteousness above that of the Pharisees? Did he command a man to remove his own eye, if it offends? Did Isaiah and other nationalist prophets declare, in God's name, that Israel would be the spiritual hub of all Nations?

There's a stigma attached to the word 'bigotry'. If you're consistent, you will see past that stigma.
Regardless of all that Jesus was tolerant. Remember when the apostles told Jesus to destroy a city and he refused? Jesus exemplified tolerance even when the apostles continued to show intolerance.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I think there is something seriously wrong with religions that have a "chosen" people. The people who are not part of the "chosen" group are then given a derogatory label ("heathen", "gentile", "goy", "infidel", "kafir", "atheist", "Muslim", "liberal"). Whenever you label someone then you are free to no longer treat them as an equal human being. Then once you label there is no moral consequence to killing people who are not part of the "chosen" group.

The moment people are labeled with stereotypes you get this:

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-mosul-civilians-airstrike-20170324-story.html

One man approached a bag that contained the body of a pregnant woman, touched it, talked to it, then began to cry and wail. Civil defense workers had to lead him away.

It seems to me the ultimate purpose of religion is to teach tolerance, cooperation, love, and forgiveness for all people just because they are human beings. But when you have labeling bigotry and prejudice are built into the teaching of the religion, then people will die horrible deaths because of religion.

It seems to me we are all sons and daughters of the same creator. At some point back in time we all share the same mother and father through birth. So we are all equal in the eyes of God because we all share the same creator. Since we are all equal in the eyes of our creator, we should treat the people we meet as the most sacred thing on Earth the way we treat small children. Every adult you meet was once a small child and a sacred object to their parents to be cared for with the greatest amount of respect and love. People are just so rude to each other its very sad.

The OP made the point Christians were being singled out as bigots. Many Christians have a persecution complexes. I think any religion that labels has bigotry. Some people in all religions are bigots. I don't think bigotry is something that only occurs with Christianity. I imagine there probably are some "liberal Christians" who don't think ALL conservative Christians are bigots. I think the bigger problem is not bigotry but labeling. You can't have bigotry without labels.

No religion is a religion of peace once you have labels. People are not labels. People are people and every person on this planet deserves some level of respect and human decency. But I don't think people care about peace. People just love killing the "enemy". People love war. Satan laughing spreads his wings.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Regardless of all that Jesus was tolerant. Remember when the apostles told Jesus to destroy a city and he refused? Jesus exemplified tolerance even when the apostles continued to show intolerance.

Right. But if you consider it, he was actually exemplifying an intolerance to their belief. They wanted to destroy their own brothers and sisters. They were of the spirit of Cain. Jesus says saving lives is contrary to destroying them, as even preceding prophets had done. He uses the Son of Man/Adam idea to shame them.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Right. But if you consider it, he was actually exemplifying an intolerance to their belief. They wanted to destroy their own brothers and sisters. They were of the spirit of Cain. Jesus says saving lives is contrary to destroying them, as even preceding prophets had done. He uses the Son of Man/Adam idea to shame them.
There is even more tolerance that Jesus showed by reminding we are all children of the most high, by eating with sinners, by saving the adulterous lady, the Samaritan. Calling people to repent is not the same as being intolerant.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
There is even more tolerance that Jesus showed by reminding we are all children of the most high, by eating with sinners, by saving the adulterous lady, the Samaritan. Calling people to repent is not the same as being intolerant.

That's the stigma talking.

We're intolerant of one another; we are a diversified species occupying and traveling within a limited space. There will always be opposing beliefs; there will always be opposing directions, forces, etc.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
That's the stigma talking.

We're intolerant of one another; we are a diversified species occupying and traveling within a limited space. There will always be opposing beliefs; there will always be opposing directions, forces, etc.
Having different beliefs from a person isn’t the same as being intolerant. Even telling a person they are wrong is not intolerance. Tolerance is accepting the right of people to have differing beliefs, especially with matters of faith and opinion. Most people feel others have a right to their opinion.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Having different beliefs from a person isn’t the same as being intolerant. Even telling a person they are wrong is not intolerance. Tolerance is accepting the right of people to have differing beliefs, especially with matters of faith and opinion. Most people feel others have a right to their opinion.

Certain opinions. Certain articles of faith.

You would not entertain a rapist's opinions, I'm assuming. A child predator? A mass-murderer?

There are boundaries.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
when a conservative Christian says that Christianity is the one true religion, you call them bigots. But, if someone from a different religion says the same thing about their religion, you affirm them.
IMO, there's a big difference between criticizing an entire religion or denomination versus disagreeing with some of their teachings. The former is often "bigotry" because it typically involves stereotyping and labeling the entire group in negative terms.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Certain opinions. Certain articles of faith.
Right well that’s the point.
You would not entertain a rapist's opinions, I'm assuming. A child predator? A mass-murderer?

There are boundaries.
I find it interesting how often debates resort to “oh yeah well what about rape”. That’s not the argument but I appreciate the strawman. Jesus did teach love your enemies(more of that tolerance) but I’m not Jesus. The US constitution respects all peoples right to happiness so long as it doesn’t infringe on those same rights of others which I tend to agree with. That doesn’t necessarily mean I want the system putting people to death sentences. Really though we are talking about religious tolerance not the tolerance of sickos.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
We're intolerant of one another; we are a diversified species occupying and traveling within a limited space. There will always be opposing beliefs; there will always be opposing directions, forces, etc.
The reason for this is kinda simple. We humans categorize nearly everything. One huge distinction we are programmed to make is "predator v prey v unimportant". We categorize humans that way as well, unless we learn to do differently. It's the instincts we're born with.
Either we evolved them or God makes us that way, it doesn't matter. It's how we are born.
Tom
 
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