• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Cyrus the Messiah

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
So is Cyrus considered a Messiah because he allowed the hebrews to return to Israel and rebuild the temple?


messiah
 
Last edited:

rosends

Well-Known Member
The rabbinic commentary on Isaiah 45:1 presents 2 possibilities:

1, that "Every title of greatness is called anointing. Comp. (Num. 18:8) “To you I have given them for greatness (לְמָשְׁחָה).”"

2. that the text actually refers to a different series of events: "Our Sages, however, said: To the King Messiah, the Holy One, blessed be He, says, “I complain to you about Cyrus,” as it is stated in Tractate Megillah 12a." so Cyrus would then NOT have been considered a "messiah."
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So is Cyrus considered a Messiah because he allowed the hebrews to return to Israel and rebuild the temple?

Besides Jesus among others (David, Solomon, Saul, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc) were Messiahs or Anointed Ones.
King Cyrus was also anointed by God to conquer or overthrow ancient Babylon releasing the Jews there - Isaiah 44:26 to Isaiah 45:7. Please note that Cyrus would act as God's 'shepherd' as per Isaiah 44:28, and so does Jesus.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
Besides Jesus among others (David, Solomon, Saul, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc) were Messiahs or Anointed Ones.
King Cyrus was also anointed by God to conquer or overthrow ancient Babylon releasing the Jews there - Isaiah 44:26 to Isaiah 45:7. Please note that Cyrus would act as God's 'shepherd' as per Isaiah 44:28, and so does Jesus.

As I live.....
the Jewish people and the nation of Israel will have their Jerusalem Third Temple........
and it will cost them nothing.......
so all that they have already saved toward the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple......
will be able to be redirected into whatever other types of mitzvah they choose.......
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
As I live.....
the Jewish people and the nation of Israel will have their Jerusalem Third Temple........
and it will cost them nothing.......
so all that they have already saved toward the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple......
will be able to be redirected into whatever other types of mitzvah they choose.......

I find that since Pentecost the ' Israel of God ' is spiritual Israel, a spiritual nation Not by flesh but by spirit, or spiritual as per Romans 2:28-29. A spiritual nation with No borders nor boundaries and Not found located on any map.
In other words, a spiritual nation being the Christian Congregation as a whole as per 1 Peter 2:9,5.
Jerusalem 'above' is now mother according to Galatians 4:26.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
I find that since Pentecost the ' Israel of God ' is spiritual Israel, a spiritual nation Not by flesh but by spirit, or spiritual as per Romans 2:28-29. A spiritual nation with No borders nor boundaries and Not found located on any map.
In other words, a spiritual nation being the Christian Congregation as a whole as per 1 Peter 2:9,5.
Jerusalem 'above' is now mother according to Galatians 4:26.

I actually agree with this but........
a metaphorical fulfillment will not prevent a literal fulfillment from also occurring.

Even if 144,000 plus a vast innumerable multitude of Christians end up with living waters flowing out of them.......
this does not stop a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 from also happening........
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Even if 144,000 plus a vast innumerable multitude of Christians end up with living waters flowing out of them.......
this does not stop a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 from also happening........

Huh? I don't comprehend or understand the ^ above ^ because I find at Revelation 22:2 there is No water flowing out of any peoples. What I comprehend is that in the midst of the street ( streets are Not people ) and on either side of the river ( rivers are Not people ) was the tree of life (Rev. 22:14) and the tree of life bares twelve (12) fruits every month, and the leaves ( Not water, nor rivers ) are for the healing of the nations. This I comprehend or understand to be in harmony with Ezekiel 47:12 that the healing leaves are like medicine. I find we are introduced to the ' tree of life ' in Genesis, so to me Revelation 22:2; Ezekiel 47:12 is showing that Eden's ' Tree of Life ' will once again be on Earth. I can't find any Scripture teaching that Christians end up with living waters flowing out of them.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
Huh? I don't comprehend or understand the ^ above ^ because I find at Revelation 22:2 there is No water flowing out of any peoples. What I comprehend is that in the midst of the street ( streets are Not people ) and on either side of the river ( rivers are Not people ) was the tree of life (Rev. 22:14) and the tree of life bares twelve (12) fruits every month, and the leaves ( Not water, nor rivers ) are for the healing of the nations. This I comprehend or understand to be in harmony with Ezekiel 47:12 that the healing leaves are like medicine. I find we are introduced to the ' tree of life ' in Genesis, so to me Revelation 22:2; Ezekiel 47:12 is showing that Eden's ' Tree of Life ' will once again be on Earth. I can't find any Scripture teaching that Christians end up with living waters flowing out of them.

John 7:37


In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
John 7:37
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Thank you for your reply. I find Jesus explains John 7:37-38 at John 7:39.
Jesus was Not speaking about real or actual literal water coming out of his belly. Jesus spoke of God's spirit.
I looked in the Greek/English Interlinear and found the word ' cavity ' instead of the KJV English word belly.
Cavity could be meaning coming from deep inside of Jesus, or deep within Jesus' core is spiritual water of life.
After all at the time of John 7:39 God's spirit was Not yet poured out upon people as per Acts of the Apostles 10:45 B.
There was No literal pouring out of water on those people, but God's spirit became active upon them.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
Thank you for your reply. I find Jesus explains John 7:37-38 at John 7:39.
Jesus was Not speaking about real or actual literal water coming out of his belly. Jesus spoke of God's spirit.
I looked in the Greek/English Interlinear and found the word ' cavity ' instead of the KJV English word belly.
Cavity could be meaning coming from deep inside of Jesus, or deep within Jesus' core is spiritual water of life.
After all at the time of John 7:39 God's spirit was Not yet poured out upon people as per Acts of the Apostles 10:45 B.
There was No literal pouring out of water on those people, but God's spirit became active upon them.

I am no expert.... .but I have difficulty imagining that there could be zero connection
between what happened when the Roman soldier thrust a spear into the side of Messiah.....
with........

Forgotten Books of Eden: First Book of Adam and Eve
Chapter 69
Twelfth apparition of Satan to Adam and Eve, while Adam was praying over the offering on the altar; when Satan beat him.

1 Then Satan, the hater of all good, envious of Adam and of his offering through which he found favor with God, hastened and took a sharp stone from among the sharp iron stones; appeared in the form of a man, and went and stood by Adam and Eve. 2 Adam was then offering on the altar, and had begun to pray, with his hands spread before God. 3 Then Satan hastened with the sharp iron stone he had with him, and with it pierced Adam on the right side, from which flowed blood and water, then Adam fell on the altar like a corpse. And Satan fled. 4 Then Eve came, and took Adam and placed him below the altar. And there she stayed, crying over him; while a stream of blood flowed from Adam's side over his offering. 5 But God looked at the death of Adam. He then sent His Word, and raised him up and said to him, "Fulfill your offering, for indeed, Adam, it is worth much, and there is no shortcoming in it." (The Book of Adam and Eve)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I am no expert.... .but I have difficulty imagining that there could be zero connection
between what happened when the Roman soldier thrust a spear into the side of Messiah.....
with........
Forgotten Books of Eden: First Book of Adam and Eve

If there is such a thing as those forgotten books it would be because God rejects them because we are Not (I repeat we are Not) to add (+) or to subtract (-) from Scripture as it says at Revelation 22:18-19.
Also, I find at 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that ALL Scripture is God inspired, so other books would Not be inspired by God.

The connection I find with John 19:34 is found at Isaiah 53:5 and Zechariah 12:10 so to me there is a connection to what happened with the Roman soldier who pierced Jesus.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
If there is such a thing as those forgotten books it would be because God rejects them because we are Not (I repeat we are Not) to add (+) or to subtract (-) from Scripture as it says at Revelation 22:18-19.
Also, I find at 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that ALL Scripture is God inspired, so other books would Not be inspired by God.

The connection I find with John 19:34 is found at Isaiah 53:5 and Zechariah 12:10 so to me there is a connection to what happened with the Roman soldier who pierced Jesus.


Books don't have to be scripture..... or on a par with scripture to be beneficial.

The book "Heaven is For Real" by Pastor Todd Burpo and the movie based on it is turning
hundreds, and thousands, and tens of thousands of people to God.......
That book fits with:

Revelation 12:11

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Your own personal story of how you came to belief in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is your story.....
and there is a segment of the population that could benefit a great deal if you were to write it up........

We have the impression that the people of 3000 years ago were very primitive......
but this statement by King Solomon reveals that they may have been more advanced than we tend to think:



Ecclesiastes 12:12

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Books don't have to be scripture..... or on a par with scripture to be beneficial.
We have the impression that the people of 3000 years ago were very primitive......
but this statement by King Solomon reveals that they may have been more advanced than we tend to think:
Ecclesiastes 12:12
"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

Not saying other books are Not beneficial, but I find Scripture alone is ' God inspired ' as per 2 Timothy 3:16:17.
I find it is good to keep the words of Ecclesiastes 12:12 in mind, and that mediation on Scripture is most beneficial
because it is Scripture that holds out the promise of everlasting life, whether in Heaven for some, or forever on Earth
as Jesus promised for humble meek people to inherit the Earth once the wicked are gone - Psalms 37:9-11,29; Proverbs 2:21-22. Meditate daily on Scripture as per Psalms 1:2 and Joshua 1:8.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
Not saying other books are Not beneficial, but I find Scripture alone is ' God inspired ' as per 2 Timothy 3:16:17.
I find it is good to keep the words of Ecclesiastes 12:12 in mind, and that mediation on Scripture is most beneficial
because it is Scripture that holds out the promise of everlasting life, whether in Heaven for some, or forever on Earth
as Jesus promised for humble meek people to inherit the Earth once the wicked are gone - Psalms 37:9-11,29; Proverbs 2:21-22. Meditate daily on Scripture as per Psalms 1:2 and Joshua 1:8.


True..... meditation on the scriptures is powerful.......
I do realize that.... but I believe that God wants us to
reach out to the lost and certain testimonies have
the power to assist the lost to get turned around rather quickly.......

Revelation 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

The testimony of a three year old is bringing thousands of people to a basic understanding of the plan of God.


 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
True..... meditation on the scriptures is powerful.......
I do realize that.... but I believe that God wants us to
reach out to the lost and certain testimonies have
the power to assist the lost to get turned around rather quickly.......
Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
The testimony of a three year old is bringing thousands of people to a basic understanding of the plan of God.

I recall hearing about a banned country where several spiritual elders compromised but a young female did Not,
that was even though she was threatened that if she did Not denounce Christ her hand would be put into boiling oil.

Plans as we know can change. Plans for a picnic can change because of bad weather, but God's purpose does Not change. So, besides some called to heaven (Luke 22:28-30), the majority of mankind (John 3:13; Acts 2:34) can be part of the blessing benefit of ' healing for earth's nations ' as described at Revelation 22:2.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise, God's purpose for Earth, that is because of God's promise to father Abraham at Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18 that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with the benefit of healing as describe by Isaiah 35. In that way, the humble meek people (such as starting with those of Matthew 25:37) can inherit the Earth, or inherit the earthly realm of God's kingdom government under Christ as King of God's kingdom.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
So is Cyrus considered a Messiah because he allowed the hebrews to return to Israel and rebuild the temple?


messiah

Being led by the right hand by G-d is important too......
giving freedom of religion to all 127 provinces of the Medo- Persian Empire was also obviously an act way ahead of his time period.

Isaiah 45:1


Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
 
Top