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Is apollyon the antichrist

74x12

Well-Known Member
So, I have had this theory for some time now.
The beast ascends out of the bottomless pit. (Rev. 17:8)
Apollyon the "king of the bottomless pit" also comes out of the bottomless pit. (Rev. 9:11)

Why is apollyon there in the first place? I assume because he probably did some crime against God in ancient times. The bottomless pit(probably also known as tartaros) is the prison of angelic beings. This means apollyon is more than a mere human.

Although the antichrist is said to be a human because he is the "man of sin" and 666 is the "number of a man" but that doesn't mean he is not a spirit also. So I believe the spirit of antichrist in that time is possibly apollyon.

Many people agree that the name apollyon was a none too subtle dig at the god Apollo. Apollo was also known as the "destroyer" because he was the god of plagues and could destroy so many people with his plagues. His name also conveniently was very similar to the Greek word for destroyer. Hence, he was even called Apollyon by at least one ancient Greek writer. Anyway, Apollo has been looked at for a long time as the "messiah" of the pagans. He is reported by many to be one day "coming back" to earth to rule on the earth as a god-king. Even Napoleon's name means "the true Apollo".
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Just another theory to add to the thousands seen in Revelations. No book has had such a negative impact on the Gospel. It's driven some people crazy.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Just another theory to add to the thousands seen in Revelations. No book has had such a negative impact on the Gospel. It's driven some people crazy.
This is why it was almost left out of the New Testament altogether. We don't even read from it in the Eastern Churches because 1: we didn't accept it until the 600's and had already written our lectionaries, and 2: Chapters 3 through 19 are utterly worthless to try and read.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just another theory to add to the thousands seen in Revelations. No book has had such a negative impact on the Gospel. It's driven some people crazy.
It even says in the text I give no interpretation of the visions these are the visions. It should have said to interpret these visions is a symptom of confusion. But that is transparent in and of itself. So I would say since that is not transparent to the church itself that is the confusion itself.

It's exactly like if I say evolution the cranium defaults to darwin narrative defining evolution regardless. Thats a problem a huge problem. That is purely superficial inculture interpretive narrative nonsense as being "Evolution". It's not.

So yea, you are right and we understood this thousands of years ago when the text was written in the first place. Not them we. We forgot somewhere between there and here and we became they. Church is hung up on that right there.

Jung wrote his own revelations it's called the red book. It's nonsense to read it and interpret it and it becomes your interpretation. Stupid absolutely stupid. I own that particular work btw. It's beautiful art
IMG_20171125_093037.jpg
 
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Rough Beast Sloucher

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
So, I have had this theory for some time now.

The beast ascends out of the bottomless pit. (Rev. 17:8)
Apollyon the "king of the bottomless pit" also comes out of the bottomless pit. (Rev. 9:11)

Why is apollyon there in the first place? I assume because he probably did some crime against God in ancient times. The bottomless pit(probably also known as tartaros) is the prison of angelic beings. This means apollyon is more than a mere human.

Although the antichrist is said to be a human because he is the "man of sin" and 666 is the "number of a man" but that doesn't mean he is not a spirit also. So I believe the spirit of antichrist in that time is possibly apollyon.

Many people agree that the name apollyon was a none too subtle dig at the god Apollo. Apollo was also known as the "destroyer" because he was the god of plagues and could destroy so many people with his plagues. His name also conveniently was very similar to the Greek word for destroyer. Hence, he was even called Apollyon by at least one ancient Greek writer. Anyway, Apollo has been looked at for a long time as the "messiah" of the pagans. He is reported by many to be one day "coming back" to earth to rule on the earth as a god-king. Even Napoleon's name means "the true Apollo".

Apollyon Apolluón is not “very similar to the Greek word for destroyer”. It is the active participle form of the verb ‘to destroy’, apollumi. Revelation 9:11 says that this is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Abaddon, which means destruction or a place of destruction. Since it is specified as the translation of the Hebrew, there is no connection with the Greek god Apollo. John of Patmos has personified the idea of destruction, not because Abaddon/Apollyon was any previously referenced character.

I am very familiar with Greek mythology. Apollo is associated with many things, plagues being a minor attribute. In the popular imagination Apollo was remembered much more for his many positive attributes. Plagues were not uncommon but they were generally not attributed to Apollo. At the beginning of the Iliad, Apollo, one of the many gods taking sides in the Trojan War, causes a plague by withdrawing his more usual healing and good health protection.

There is no messiah of any kind in Greek mythology, not Apollo or any other god or figure. In Greek mythology of the NT era, life just goes on. One dies and goes to Elysium, Hades or Tartarus immediately. No future ‘salvation’ or judgment or any change in status. Tartarus is the place of punishment for evil people. It is also where the Titans are imprisoned for waging war against Olympus. One might find a parallel here with Satan and the rebellious angels. But Apollo was not a Titan but an Olympian.

The antichrist is not mentioned in Revelation at all. The only references in the NT to the anti-Christ is in the letters of John. He defines the antichrist as one who denies that Jesus is the messiah and that the messiah came in the flesh.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Apollyon Apolluón is not “very similar to the Greek word for destroyer”. It is the active participle form of the verb ‘to destroy’, apollumi. Revelation 9:11 says that this is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Abaddon, which means destruction or a place of destruction. Since it is specified as the translation of the Hebrew, there is no connection with the Greek god Apollo. John of Patmos has personified the idea of destruction, not because Abaddon/Apollyon was any previously referenced character.
Why did John feel the need to translate this into Greek if you're right? The Greek does matter. And I don't believe that John of Patmos personified anything. Revelations are given by God they are received by humans. They are not just made up by anyone. The book of Revelation says this about itself:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (Rev 1:1)

So, this is not something John just decided to write. John wrote everything exactly as the angels and God told him to write:
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (Rev 3:14)

I am very familiar with Greek mythology. Apollo is associated with many things, plagues being a minor attribute. In the popular imagination Apollo was remembered much more for his many positive attributes. Plagues were not uncommon but they were generally not attributed to Apollo. At the beginning of the Iliad, Apollo, one of the many gods taking sides in the Trojan War, causes a plague by withdrawing his more usual healing and good health protection.
Many people are familiar with the basics of Greek mythology. The point it's an obvious play on words. He was indeed able to send plagues wit his arrows and did so in the Trojan war. All your glowing terms about Apollo are helping my point because he was viewed as a perfect god messiah type figure.
There is no messiah of any kind in Greek mythology, not Apollo or any other god or figure. In Greek mythology of the NT era, life just goes on. One dies and goes to Elysium, Hades or Tartarus immediately. No future ‘salvation’ or judgment or any change in status. Tartarus is the place of punishment for evil people. It is also where the Titans are imprisoned for waging war against Olympus. One might find a parallel here with Satan and the rebellious angels. But Apollo was not a Titan but an Olympian.
Look, I'm not saying there is a literal mythological messiah of the Greek gods. The point here is some people are looking for the return of Apollo(who they believe is also Osiris). He is a "messiah" to them in that sense. Tartaros is mentioned in the Bible as the prison of certain fallen angels. (2 Pet. 2:4) This is how I identify it with the bottomless pit. I am aware of it's history in Greek mythology.

The antichrist is not mentioned in Revelation at all. The only references in the NT to the anti-Christ is in the letters of John. He defines the antichrist as one who denies that Jesus is the messiah and that the messiah came in the flesh.
Just because the word antichrist is not used in the book of Revelation that doesn't mean he's not in there.
 

Rough Beast Sloucher

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
Why did John feel the need to translate this into Greek if you're right? The Greek does matter. And I don't believe that John of Patmos personified anything. Revelations are given by God they are received by humans. They are not just made up by anyone. The book of Revelation says this about itself:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (Rev 1:1)

So, this is not something John just decided to write. John wrote everything exactly as the angels and God told him to write:

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (Rev 3:14)

If Revelation were the product of John of Patmos, the he decided to personify destruction as Apollyon. If John wrote what was given to him, then it was God who decided to personify destruction as Apollyon. Either way, the Hebrew word Abaddon, which means destruction, translates to destruction in Greek. Whoever it was that is responsible for presenting the Hebrew and the translation into Greek wanted it clear that destruction was intended. It should be no surprise that the Hebrew word should be used here. Revelation is full of references to the Jewish scriptures. Perhaps John or God wanted to make it clear that there was no Greek pun going on, just an accidental similarity of names.

Many people are familiar with the basics of Greek mythology. The point it's an obvious play on words. He was indeed able to send plagues with his arrows and did so in the Trojan war. All your glowing terms about Apollo are helping my point because he was viewed as a perfect god messiah type figure.

Look, I'm not saying there is a literal mythological messiah of the Greek gods. The point here is some people are looking for the return of Apollo(who they believe is also Osiris). He is a "messiah" to them in that sense. Tartaros is mentioned in the Bible as the prison of certain fallen angels. (2 Pet. 2:4) This is how I identify it with the bottomless pit. I am aware of it's history in Greek mythology.

I never said I was only familiar with the basics of Greek Mythology. I know a great deal about it.

There is no ‘obvious play on words’ as is obvious from it being presented as a translation from the Hebrew. Abaddon is Hebrew for destruction. Apollyon is the translation of that Hebrew word.

Apollo was never viewed as a messiah figure. A messiah figure is oneFirl who is going to come and change everything, defeat the enemy, bring salvation and so on. Where in the Apollo mythos does any of that appear?

Apollo has no connection with Osiris, modern re-invented new age mythology notwithstanding. The connection that was made between Egyptian and Greek mythology was Serapis. When Egypt was being Hellenized, Greek distaste for the part animal Egyptian deities was a divisive element between the two cultures. A fusion of two Egyptian deities, re-invented in totally human form, resulted in the new Aser-Osiris deity, contracted to Serapis. The purpose was to present Egyptian religion and culture as not so primitive as the Greeks first saw it.

One look at the statues of Serapis and Apollo shows that Serapis cannot be confused with Apollo. Serapis is presented as a mature bearded man, as befits a king. Apollo is presented as an athletic beardless youth, in the kouros artistic tradition.

There is no connection between Apollo and Osiris except in the imagination of 19th century mystic Rudolph Steiner. There are no prior references to the idea anywhere. Steiner made it up.

Just because the word antichrist is not used in the book of Revelation that doesn't mean he's not in there.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

The antichrist is anyone who denies that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) and came in the flesh. (As opposed to the docetic belief that Jesus was a spirit masquerading as a man.) Is there a figure in Revelation that talks that way? John also says that there are many antichrists already in the world in his time. Many antichrists already, not just one and not climbing out of a pit.

It is not simply that the word does not appear in Revelation. The concept is not there.
 
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