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Scripturally, What Does a Christian Need to do...or Not do?

pearl

Well-Known Member
Was this the immaculate conception? Where can I find any scripture that even remotely suggests that Mary was sinless?

The Church is a living body and does not stagnate in the 1st cent. That is what fundamentalists except, only a literalist understanding of Scripture. They imagine the 'voice' of God dictating to robotic listeners who then write exactly what was dictated to them. As such you have much in common with Catholic fundamentalists and their insistence on dogma written in stone. Neither take into account the moving forward of the Gospels themselves. Need only to compare Mk's image of Mary with Mt and Lk and especially Jn. There is a forward movement as to the understanding of Mary in the NT itself.

As I have previously stated, the Church makes no claim that all doctrine is worded in Scripture.

so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me.

Until the 16th cent we pretty much were.

This is not the Christianity started by the Son of God.

The Church is greater than and not identified with a hierarchy.
Being that the Church is made up of human beings, and as such sinful, only through the Grace of God is it a community, for all its sinfulness, is at the same time holy and for all its holiness is at the same time sinful.


Augustine

Wherever in my books I have described Church as being without spot or wrinkle,
I have not meant to imply that it was already so, but that it would prepare itself to be so, at the time where it too will appear in its glory, In the present time, because of the inexperience and weakness of the members it must pray everyday anew; " Forgive us our trespasses.


Aquinas

That the Church will be glorious, without spot or wrinkle is the final goal to which we are led
through the sufferings of Christ. This will only be true in our eternal home, not as the way thither,for now we would deceive ourselves if we were to say we have no sin, as I John i:8 points out.
I repeat you have no knowledge of the Catholic Church.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Noah prepared by building an ark. How have you prepared? The minimum one has to do is seek the LORD while he may be found and forsake their wickedness and their unrighteous thoughts. Yeshua said that the end comes when the kingdom of heaven is preached throughout the world (Matthew 24:14). I am thinking that you preach the false gospel of grace in its place. The "end" includes the gathering up of the tares "first", and then the gathering of the wheat (Matthew 13:30). Isaiah 26:20 says to go into your rooms and shut the door. Have you prepared a room to go into for a little while the tares are gathered?

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near. 7Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts;

As with God's people all through biblical history, they must form one united body of believers....who all share one view of God and who accept all of his commands that are practiced in their everyday life.

They are gathered from all nations and languages, and they meet together and seek to worship one God in accord with all biblical directives, and whose name they were to bear. (Revelation 7:9-10; Hebrews 10:24-25; Acts 15:14)

If the view you hold is not held by others, then it appears that perhaps it is you who may be preaching a false gospel. I have to ask if 'you' live up to the Bible's full definition of a Christian whilst you accuse others of not doing so?

We never use the word "grace" for the simple reason that it has been misused by Christendom to suggest that "once saved always saved"....the Bible does not teach that. In fact JW's have very little in common with them at all.

We are all entitled to believe whatever we wish, so being exposed to what others believe is a good way to evaluate what we accept in worship for ourselves.....or whether we will believe at all.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Noah prepared by building an ark. How have you prepared? The minimum one has to do is seek the LORD while he may be found and forsake their wickedness and their unrighteous thoughts. Yeshua said that the end comes when the kingdom of heaven is preached throughout the world (Matthew 24:14). I am thinking that you preach the false gospel of grace in its place. The "end" includes the gathering up of the tares "first", and then the gathering of the wheat (Matthew 13:30). Isaiah 26:20 says to go into your rooms and shut the door. Have you prepared a room to go into for a little while the tares are gathered?

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near. 7Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts;

What do you see as the symbolism in Noah building the ark? What is the lesson for us given Jesus'' words in Matthew 24:37-39?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The Church is a living body and does not stagnate in the 1st cent.

Who said it 'stagnated' in the first century? What Jesus taught was not negotiable or changeable so what are you implying?
Jesus taught God's word and he said it was "truth"...does truth change?

That is what fundamentalists except, only a literalist understanding of Scripture. They imagine the 'voice' of God dictating to robotic listeners who then write exactly what was dictated to them. As such you have much in common with Catholic fundamentalists and their insistence on dogma written in stone. Neither take into account the moving forward of the Gospels themselves. Need only to compare Mk's image of Mary with Mt and Lk and especially Jn. There is a forward movement as to the understanding of Mary in the NT itself.

As I have previously stated, the Church makes no claim that all doctrine is worded in Scripture.

If it was the "voice of God dictating scripture" then all the gospels would be photo copies of each other. The fact that some of the writers included detail that the other omitted makes for a very comprehensive account of what took place. As for being literal, I see nothing in the gospels that is figurative unless it is obvious in an illustration or a figure of speech.

This "moving forward as to the understanding of Mary in the NT" calls for specifics......please supply them.

Until the 16th cent we pretty much were.

Up until the 16th century the Catholic monolith held tyrannical power over the masses. History attests to her very unchristian treatment of those who dared to point out her errors. The Jews did the same to those prophets that God sent to correct her. The church has the power of excommunication....but not torture and murder. The inquisition will go down in infamy as the darkest of unchristian practices in a most unholy church.

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The Church is greater than and not identified with a hierarchy.

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Really? What is "the church" without them?

Being that the Church is made up of human beings, and as such sinful, only through the Grace of God is it a community, for all its sinfulness, is at the same time holy and for all its holiness is at the same time sinful.

Jesus said.....
Every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:17-20)

What was the identifying mark of true Christians? Jesus said...."By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35)

By what means are Catholic hierarchy identified...?

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By their colors perhaps? (Revelation 17:4-6)

Augustine

Wherever in my books I have described Church as being without spot or wrinkle,
I have not meant to imply that it was already so, but that it would prepare itself to be so, at the time where it too will appear in its glory, In the present time, because of the inexperience and weakness of the members it must pray everyday anew; " Forgive us our trespasses.

You'd think if his words had real meaning that time would have seen the church become more "Christ-like"......but the 'glory of the church' is seen in the finery of its architecture, its vast store of material treasures and its elaborate costumes....but not so in its actions.

Aquinas

That the Church will be glorious, without spot or wrinkle is the final goal to which we are led
through the sufferings of Christ. This will only be true in our eternal home, not as the way thither, for now we would deceive ourselves if we were to say we have no sin, as I John i:8 points out.

"The Church" will definitely be without spot and wrinkle when the final judgment comes.....but is Roman Catholicism or any other denomination in Christendom identified by Jesus as "his" church? That is the question.

Matthew 7:21-23 tells us the outcome for those who think they are "Christians" in good standing, but who deny Christ by their teachings and actions.....

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

We must all do a very serious search inside our own minds and hearts because we only get one shot at this. We are not "sheep" because we think we are.....Christ might well call us something else. :(

I repeat you have no knowledge of the Catholic Church.

I wonder if you do? If one is raised to believe that Catholicism or any other denomination in Christendom is practicing true Christianity, then how would they know any different?

I have enough knowledge to know that I don't want to be identified with any part of it when that final judgment comes. (Revelation 18:4-5)
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
What do you see as the symbolism in Noah building the ark? What is the lesson for us given Jesus'' words in Matthew 24:37-39?

Noah built the ark to ward off destruction by water. The next destruction will be by fire (Revelation 9:18) which is a result of the "great earthquake" and "one hundred pound hailstones" (Revelation 16:18-21). Keep in mind that the pay load of multiple reentry nuclear rockets is around 100 pounds each. Per Matthew 24:22, the time span of destruction was cut short to save the "elect". As for who already said "He is in the wilderness" (Matthew 24:26), that would be Paul, and what Yeshua said was "do not believe them" (Matthew 24:26). As for Matthew 24:37-39, it will be the "tares" which will be gathered up first (Matthew 13:30), and they will be unprepared and be assigned a place "with the hypocrites" (Matthew 24:51).
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Noah built the ark to ward off destruction by water.

Why didn't God just supply Noah with the right vessel? After all, it was God who was going to bring about the flood and Noah was the only righteous family head in existence at the time....why was there a need to construct such a huge vessel which was going to take Noah and his sons decades to build?

The next destruction will be by fire (Revelation 9:18) which is a result of the "great earthquake" and "one hundred pound hailstones" (Revelation 16:18-21)
Per Matthew 24:22, the time span of destruction was cut short to save the "elect".

Revelation is a rundown on the final judgment of the inhabitants of this earth.....the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen will begin, culminating in "the war of the Great Day of God the almighty"....."Armageddon" will cleanse the earth of all wickedness and prepare the way for God's Kingdom to rule those who welcome its rulership. They have nothing to fear from what is about to take place, as they have taken refuge in their God and his Christ.

Revelation to John — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

As for who already said "He is in the wilderness" (Matthew 24:26), that would be Paul, and what Yeshua said was "do not believe them" (Matthew 24:26).

By whose measure do you assume that Paul is some kind of villain? What makes you think that Paul is the one saying "he is in the wilderness"? Upon which scripture do you base that assertion?

As for Matthew 24:37-39, it will be the "tares" which will be gathered up first (Matthew 13:30), and they will be unprepared and be assigned a place "with the hypocrites" (Matthew 24:51).

Who are the tares? Who are the wheat?

You did not respond to my question......"As with God's people all through biblical history, they must form one united body of believers....who all share one view of God and who accept all of his commands that are practiced in their everyday life.

They are gathered from all nations and languages, and they meet together and seek to worship one God in accord with all biblical directives, and whose name they were to bear. (Revelation 7:9-10; Hebrews 10:24-25; Acts 15:14)

If the view you hold is not held by others, then it appears that perhaps it is you who may be preaching a false gospel. I have to ask if 'you' live up to the Bible's full definition of a Christian whilst you accuse others of not doing so?"

Can you respond to this please?
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Why didn't God just supply Noah with the right vessel? After all, it was God who was going to bring about the flood and Noah was the only righteous family head in existence at the time....why was there a need to construct such a huge vessel which was going to take Noah and his sons decades to build?



Revelation is a rundown on the final judgment of the inhabitants of this earth.....the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen will begin, culminating in "the war of the Great Day of God the almighty"....."Armageddon" will cleanse the earth of all wickedness and prepare the way for God's Kingdom to rule those who welcome its rulership. They have nothing to fear from what is about to take place, as they have taken refuge in their God and his Christ.

Revelation to John — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY



By whose measure do you assume that Paul is some kind of villain? What makes you think that Paul is the one saying "he is in the wilderness"? Upon which scripture do you base that assertion?

Who are the tares? Who are the wheat?

You did not respond to my question......"As with God's people all through biblical history, they must form one united body of believers....who all share one view of God and who accept all of his commands that are practiced in their everyday life.

They are gathered from all nations and languages, and they meet together and seek to worship one God in accord with all biblical directives, and whose name they were to bear. (Revelation 7:9-10; Hebrews 10:24-25; Acts 15:14)

If the view you hold is not held by others, then it appears that perhaps it is you who may be preaching a false gospel. I have to ask if 'you' live up to the Bible's full definition of a Christian whilst you accuse others of not doing so?"

Can you respond to this please?


As for Noah, action based on believe is called faith. For Noah to be saved, it required action on his part. The same can be applied to Abraham (James 2:21).

The “elect” have plenty to fear. If the “great tribulation” is not cut short, they would all perish. (Matthew 24:22). They are warned that they should not even turn back to pick up their cloak. It is Paul’s apparent friend Luke, who says Paul saw Yeshua in the desert. Of course, as everyone was either deaf or blind during that excursion, the only witness would have been Paul.

You apparently are taking refuge in your man made church, whose dogmas, doctrines, and scripture all are initially derived from the daughter of Babylon (Revelation 18:4) & (Zechariah 2:7). You follow Constantine in following his decree to not work on the day of the sun per his decree of 321 AD. No one could buy or sell on the day of the sun per his decree.


Apparently you have taken the mark of Constantine (Deuteronomy 6:8), who was the beast with two horns like a lamb, and this kind of puts you in the land of the tares, who "commit lawlessness (Matthew 13:41) and the wicked (Matthew 13:49), which precludes one from having "understanding" (Daniel 12:10). Constantine's law precluded buying and selling on the day of the sun (Sunday), and declared it the day of rest. Your shepherds appear to "have no understanding" (Isaiah 56:11), which they have passed onto you (Jeremiah 16:19).

Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
As for Noah, action based on believe is called faith. For Noah to be saved, it required action on his part. The same can be applied to Abraham (James 2:21).

Thank you. The action in both cases was extraordinary, taking both out of their 'comfort zone'. So not only "action" to back up their faith, but absolute obedience even at great personal effort and cost on their part. A 'comfortable' faith in not treading the "cramped and narrow road".

The “elect” have plenty to fear. If the “great tribulation” is not cut short, they would all perish. (Matthew 24:22). They are warned that they should not even turn back to pick up their cloak. It is Paul’s apparent friend Luke, who says Paul saw Yeshua in the desert. Of course, as everyone was either deaf or blind during that excursion, the only witness would have been Paul.

If Paul was not the apostle he claimed to be, then we cannot accept any scripture as inspired of God. If the Bible is God's word, then he is the one who determined what it contains. Luke, as one of the gospel writers, cannot be ignored. I believe it is God who decides what is scripture....not men.

You apparently are taking refuge in your man made church, whose dogmas, doctrines, and scripture all are initially derived from the daughter of Babylon (Revelation 18:4) & (Zechariah 2:7). You follow Constantine in following his decree to not work on the day of the sun per his decree of 321 AD. No one could buy or sell on the day of the sun per his decree.


Apparently you have taken the mark of Constantine (Deuteronomy 6:8), who was the beast with two horns like a lamb, and this kind of puts you in the land of the tares, who "commit lawlessness (Matthew 13:41) and the wicked (Matthew 13:49), which precludes one from having "understanding" (Daniel 12:10). Constantine's law precluded buying and selling on the day of the sun (Sunday), and declared it the day of rest. Your shepherds appear to "have no understanding" (Isaiah 56:11), which they have passed onto you (Jeremiah 16:19).

Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity

Apparently, you are labouring under the wrong assumption that we subscribe to Christendom's doctrines.....I assure you that JW's do not believe any of them. We have no "Sunday" worship as a holy day of rest, recognising, as you do, that Constantine's church is a fusion religion of weakened Christianity and pagan sun worship. Christians were never told to observe a Sabbath. That was only for Jews.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Thank you. The action in both cases was extraordinary, taking both out of their 'comfort zone'. So not only "action" to back up their faith, but absolute obedience even at great personal effort and cost on their part. A 'comfortable' faith in not treading the "cramped and narrow road".



If Paul was not the apostle he claimed to be, then we cannot accept any scripture as inspired of God. If the Bible is God's word, then he is the one who determined what it contains. Luke, as one of the gospel writers, cannot be ignored. I believe it is God who decides what is scripture....not men.



Apparently, you are labouring under the wrong assumption that we subscribe to Christendom's doctrines.....I assure you that JW's do not believe any of them. We have no "Sunday" worship as a holy day of rest, recognising, as you do, that Constantine's church is a fusion religion of weakened Christianity and pagan sun worship. Christians were never told to observe a Sabbath. That was only for Jews.

At least you are consistent. Wrong on all counts. Everyday faith is not based on "cost on their part". If God wants something done, he puts it in the hearts of his children to want to do it. As for Paul being the bell weather of what is inspired of God, give me a break. What you do is forget God's day of rest. The followers of Yeshua all kept the Sabbath. It is Paul's Christian church which follows the direction of Constantine. And yes, you do abide by the canon of the Catholic church as concerning what is from God. That was first formalized in 367 AD by Athanasius, the Roman bishop of Alexandria, the guy who sat next to Constantine at the Council of Nicaea, and who was a proponent of the Trinity doctrine. It is the Roman church who decided "what is scripture". The nations will cling to the Jew, not the Jew to Christians/gentiles, because God will be with them. You have been mislead (Revelation 13:14) & (Jeremiah 16:19). God will be with Israel and Judah (Jacob). The nations will try and hang on to them to be their servants (Isaiah 14:1-2).

Zechariah 8:23
Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'In those days ten men [as representatives] from all the nations will grasp the robe of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”'”
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What you do is forget God's day of rest. The followers of Yeshua all kept the Sabbath.
That would be because they were all Jewish. It was a Jewish command not binding on Gentile Christians. The "necessary things" that Christians needed to do was recounted by the apostles and older men in Jerusalem, and recorded in Acts 15:25-29.....

"we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barʹna·bas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

Among the "nesessary things" there is no mention of observing the Sabbath. All these things were common practices among Gentiles. Jews already observed these laws. Jews could still observe the Sabbath if they chose to, but it was not binding on Gentiles.
I believe that it is a dangerous thing to dismiss any part of God's word as if you think he would allow men to interfere with his communication to the world.

It is Paul's Christian church which follows the direction of Constantine. And yes, you do abide by the canon of the Catholic church as concerning what is from God. That was first formalized in 367 AD by Athanasius, the Roman bishop of Alexandria, the guy who sat next to Constantine at the Council of Nicaea, and who was a proponent of the Trinity doctrine. It is the Roman church who decided "what is scripture".

I have already told you that we hold no beliefs in common with Christendom. Do you understand that? We are not subject to any of that. We accept Paul, because the other apostles accepted him. If they were guided by Holy Spirit, then they would have exposed him. They did not reject his counsel or his words. On what basis do you do so?

Do you believe that God never guided what is included in his word? It was all just decided by apostates, with no guidance at all from him? How then, do you pick and choose what to believe? If only some of the Bible is from God, then how do you decide what is God's word and what is man's?

The nations will cling to the Jew, not the Jew to Christians/gentiles, because God will be with them. You have been mislead (Revelation 13:14) & (Jeremiah 16:19). God will be with Israel and Judah (Jacob). The nations will try and hang on to them to be their servants (Isaiah 14:1-2).

Zechariah 8:23
Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'In those days ten men [as representatives] from all the nations will grasp the robe of a Jew, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”'”

You ignore Jesus words at Matthew 23:37-39. Fleshly Israel was "abandoned" because they were serial covenant breakers. As soon as they put God's last prophet, his precious son to death, his obligation to Abraham was fulfilled. John the Baptist said it all.....

"7 When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones"

And raise up children he did.....not from the stones, but from the nations, creating 'spiritual' Israel. These became 'sons of God' by adoption, not by birth. It is these from among fleshly Israel and the Gentile nations who now, as one global body of united Christians, wear the "robe of a Jew" and it is these to which we must cling.

I believe it is you who have been horribly misled.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
That would be because they were all Jewish. It was a Jewish command not binding on Gentile Christians. The "necessary things" that Christians needed to do was recounted by the apostles and older men in Jerusalem, and recorded in Acts 15:25-29.....

"we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barʹna·bas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

Among the "nesessary things" there is no mention of observing the Sabbath. All these things were common practices among Gentiles. Jews already observed these laws. Jews could still observe the Sabbath if they chose to, but it was not binding on Gentiles.
I believe that it is a dangerous thing to dismiss any part of God's word as if you think he would allow men to interfere with his communication to the world.

I have already told you that we hold no beliefs in common with Christendom. Do you understand that? We are not subject to any of that. We accept Paul, because the other apostles accepted him. If they were guided by Holy Spirit, then they would have exposed him. They did not reject his counsel or his words. On what basis do you do so?

Do you believe that God never guided what is included in his word? It was all just decided by apostates, with no guidance at all from him? How then, do you pick and choose what to believe? If only some of the Bible is from God, then how do you decide what is God's word and what is man's?

You ignore Jesus words at Matthew 23:37-39. Fleshly Israel was "abandoned" because they were serial covenant breakers. As soon as they put God's last prophet, his precious son to death, his obligation to Abraham was fulfilled. John the Baptist said it all.....

"7 When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones"

And raise up children he did.....not from the stones, but from the nations, creating 'spiritual' Israel. These became 'sons of God' by adoption, not by birth. It is these from among fleshly Israel and the Gentile nations who now, as one global body of united Christians, wear the "robe of a Jew" and it is these to which we must cling.

I believe it is you who have been horribly misled.

"Every tree that does not produce fruit, it is cut off and thrown into the fire (Matthew 3:10). That would pertain to all. As for Jacob's future, go to Ezekiel 36:18-16:

18“Therefore I poured out My wrath on them for the blood which they had shed on the land, because they had defiled it with their idols. 19“Also I scattered them among the nations and they were dispersed throughout the lands. According to their ways and their deeds I judged them. 20“When they came to the nations where they went, they profaned My holy name, because it was said of them, ‘These are the people of the LORD; yet they have come out of His land.’ 21“But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went.

Israel to Be Renewed for His Name’s Sake
22“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23“I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
To answer the question, What a Christian needs to do, is follow the teachings of Christ Jesus and not be found adding to his word or deleting from his word.

And not be taking every word that a Pastor, Preacher may say.
Alot of Pastor's, Preachers knows they can tell their people whatever they want and the people will believe them. That's because people are gullible to believe their every word.

This very thing was happening back at the time of Christ Jesus was here on earth and is happening now with people ?
 
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