How could an omniscient , omnipotent god of love create sin ?

I am basing this question to christianity's god , but i guess the omnipotent ,omniscient love god matches with other religions too so thats why i am posting that in this section .
So , we are taught that god created hell for the demons and paradise for men , and that he is really sad when even one person gets to enter to hell . Although , one could expect that a caring god like this that had the power to do everything (including avoiding the creation of sin ) and that he knew in advance that man could fall into sin if it was created , wouldnt bring it to existance . What's religion thesis on that ? I would be happy to read your answers

i've got questions said:

So , we are taught that god created hell for the demons and paradise for men , and that he is really sad when even one person gets to enter to hell . Although , one could expect that a caring god like this that had the power to do everything (including avoiding the creation of sin ) and that he knew in advance that man could fall into sin if it was created , wouldnt bring it to existance .

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What you are describing is a particular kind of protestant christianity. It matches only with certain groups of Christians.

i've got questions said:

What's religion thesis on that ?

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There's not 1 official position but several.

Oh, I didn't realize you were the Orthodox fellow from the other thread. Hello again.

Brickjectivity said:

What you are describing is a particular kind of protestant christianity. It matches only with certain groups of Christians.

There's not 1 official position but several.

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Ok , we orthodoxes believe that too ,so . I would be happy if you couyld give me some of them , please

i've got questions said:

I am basing this question to christianity's god , but i guess the omnipotent ,omniscient love god matches with other religions too so thats why i am posting that in this section .
So , we are taught that god created hell for the demons and paradise for men , and that he is really sad when even one person gets to enter to hell . Although , one could expect that a caring god like this that had the power to do everything (including avoiding the creation of sin ) and that he knew in advance that man could fall into sin if it was created , wouldnt bring it to existance . What's religion thesis on that ? I would be happy to read your answers

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First the God of the bible consistently wants humans to have a choice. The reason the tree was in Eden was so we could choose our fate. Prophets were all asked to do God's work. They may have been punished(like Jonah) when saying no but they were never forced. In genesis when God creates the heavens this is typically considered the Planets(Stars) not a literal heaven where god lives. Eden is probably a more accurate reflection of living the afterlife with God. It is the one place where Humans and God where together. That being said I believe that humans create there own heaven or hell. We inflict our own punishment or reward after death because of the gained knowledge from God and the understanding we always had a choice. Our minds are great at creating demons and angels where their are none, they will be even better at it when we have a full understanding.

i've got questions said:

I am basing this question to christianity's god , but i guess the omnipotent ,omniscient love god matches with other religions too so thats why i am posting that in this section .
So , we are taught that god created hell for the demons and paradise for men , and that he is really sad when even one person gets to enter to hell . Although , one could expect that a caring god like this that had the power to do everything (including avoiding the creation of sin ) and that he knew in advance that man could fall into sin if it was created , wouldnt bring it to existence . What's religion thesis on that ? I would be happy to read your answers

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World you see with your eyes is purposely organized this way so we, the souls, know good and evil and learned to choose good. Just a rehabilitation colony . God was not in business to created evil-less world, God meant us to built one.

For an omnibenevolent god sin would indeed seem to be quite contrary to his nature. The only thing I can think of is that in view of the fact that sin, which he created, does exist, he really isn't omnibenevolent at all. And any scripture that suggests he is, is mistaken.

Ya can't have it both ways. Of course it might be conjectured that sin is good, but Genesis 3:14 says otherwise


and Genesis 13:13 says


and Genesis 44:16 says

So sin can hardly be considered to be good, and it all comes down to: God created/deliberately allows sin, which isn't good, therefore god ≠ omnibenevolent.

God can create/allow sin because he's NOT all-good.

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bobhikes said:

First the God of the bible consistently wants humans to have a choice. The reason the tree was in Eden was so we could choose our fate. Prophets were all asked to do God's work. They may have been punished(like Jonah) when saying no but they were never forced. In genesis when God creates the heavens this is typically considered the Planets(Stars) not a literal heaven where god lives. Eden is probably a more accurate reflection of living the afterlife with God. It is the one place where Humans and God where together. That being said I believe that humans create there own heaven or hell. We inflict our own punishment or reward after death because of the gained knowledge from God and the understanding we always had a choice. Our minds are great at creating demons and angels where their are none, they will be even better at it when we have a full understanding.

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Of course i get the symbolism behind Eden , and dont using it fully literary . Αbout the free will , you are mentioning though , i am not sure i can agree with that point of view . What i mean is that , if sin didn't exist there would not be a violation of free will , since there would be no choise that would be deprived from us .

socharlie said:

World you see with your eyes is purposely organized this way so we, the souls, know good and evil and learned to choose good. Just a rehabilitation colony . God was not in business to created evil-less world, God meant us to built one.

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Christianity's scriptures mention that at first humans were granted a life free from any evil ,close to him . Also it is pretty clear that god was not pleased at all with humans knowing evil , when they disobeyed to his command . So how could this,then , be his desire ?

bobhikes said:

First the God of the bible consistently wants humans to have a choice. The reason the tree was in Eden was so we could choose our fate.

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Correction: not "we could choose," but "A&E choose." A&E blew it, and god decided that all of mankind should suffer for their momentary lapse in good judgement. Nice guy.

We inflict our own punishment or reward after death because of the gained knowledge from God and the understanding we always had a choice.

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And what of those whom god's servants, preachers and such, have failed in their obligation to convince the non-believer, and those who never had any knowledge of such a choice in the first place? They get to go to hell too?

.

i've got questions said:

I am basing this question to christianity's god , but i guess the omnipotent ,omniscient love god matches with other religions too so thats why i am posting that in this section .
So , we are taught that god created hell for the demons and paradise for men , and that he is really sad when even one person gets to enter to hell . Although , one could expect that a caring god like this that had the power to do everything (including avoiding the creation of sin ) and that he knew in advance that man could fall into sin if it was created , wouldnt bring it to existance . What's religion thesis on that ? I would be happy to read your answers

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Because you are here to learn what these things mean...

You do not really know love without experiencing hate, or happiness without some misery. The one (not the Christian God, who is knowable) gives you the freedom to explore and do what you feel is right for the growth of your soul. Sometimes, your soul needs to learn some crappy things in this life but it's ultimately all for the good. This One, however, unconditionally loves - there is no concept of sin, it just wants you to learn that lesson. So, you're gonna be back here until you do. Sin is a man-made invention, mostly used to persecute anyone whom will not tow the line of some religious dogma.

Conventional religions basically focus on sinning against the church, rather than sinning against The One. (which is basically impossible) In essence, their spiritual teaching is corrupted and worthless.

i've got questions said:

Ok , we orthodoxes believe that too ,so . I would be happy if you couyld give me some of them , please

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One is called 'Annihilationism' which posits that in fact hell refers to permanent death. Annihilationists generally believe in a physical resurrection of the dead, and so if you are not resurrected that is hell. They have biblical terminology and hermaneutics behind them, and its much more convincing when you understand how to derive it from the Bible.

There are also those who view the resurrection as inclusion in Christ. We're rare, so we don't have a group. That is where I am, so while I'm similar to Annihilationists I differ in that I don't expect a physical resurrection. I also have Biblical hermaneutics and a more convincing way of expressing my ideas.

Unity -- I recently visited a Unity church. They are a little different, so you can read about them. They are probably similar to Universalists.

Swedenborgianism -- a church doctrine founded in Sweden. A lot of people like it. I don't know that much, but the man who founded it is reportedly very clever.

Christian Universalism -- I think they believe in spirits and that we have souls separate from our bodies, but they believe that hell is a way of cleansing. So if you go to hell you go there to get cleaned up and then you go to heaven.

Christian Science -- they think of hell as a metaphor for sin or something like that.

Eternal torment -- this is popular with some. They believe that if you die and don't go to heaven with Jesus that you will suffer flames for all of eternity. Literally you burn with fire that doesn't go out, and it just hurts forever. Usually they also believe it is dark. Some believe the damned are also tortured by creatures while they are burning and so forth. Generally this group believes in a separate body, soul and spirit; but there are variations. Some believe rather than fire the torment is separation from God. Others believe the fire represents some kind of discomfort that may not be literally flames. Some fall into a category sort of like the Universalists where they think its temporary or for cleansing.

Skwim said:

Correction: not "we could choose," but "A&E choose." A&E blew it, and god decided that all of mankind should suffer for their momentary lapse in good judgement. Nice guy.


And what of those whom god's servants, preachers and such, have failed in their obligation to convince the non-believer, and those who never had any knowledge of such a choice in the first place? They get to go to hell too?

.

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A&E and Eden are symbolism for all humans and their choice to have faith or not.

i've got questions said:

I am basing this question to christianity's god , but i guess the omnipotent ,omniscient love god matches with other religions too so thats why i am posting that in this section .
So , we are taught that god created hell for the demons and paradise for men , and that he is really sad when even one person gets to enter to hell . Although , one could expect that a caring god like this that had the power to do everything (including avoiding the creation of sin ) and that he knew in advance that man could fall into sin if it was created , wouldnt bring it to existance . What's religion thesis on that ? I would be happy to read your answers

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First of all, I can't find any Bible verse saying hell for the demons.
( Remember: the world teaches about a non-biblical hell as being Scriptural hell and it is Not )
I do find that the day Jesus died that dead Jesus went to biblical hell according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
The reason dead Jesus entered biblical hell is because the Bible's hell is simply the stone-cold grave.
The temporary grave for the sleeping dead until Resurrection Day.
If biblical hell was permanent then Jesus would still be in hell.
Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death at John 11:11-14 which is in harmony with the old Hebrew Scriptures found at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing. So, No pain in death, just sleep.

God chooses Not to know all things because God gifted all of us with free-will choices.
So, there are things that God chooses Not to know, otherwise there would be No need to ask us to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' (be destroyed) as per 2 Peter 3:9.

Since Jesus will destroy Satan as per Hebrews 2:14 B then Satan ends up in destruction and Not the grave.
Satan ends up in that symbolic ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8.

During Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins then we will once again see paradisical conditions on Earth as described at Revelation 22:2 when there will be 'healing for Earth's nations'.
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations, and Earth will become a beautiful paradise as described in chapter 35 of Isaiah.

i've got questions said:

Of course i get the symbolism behind Eden , and dont using it fully literary . Αbout the free will , you are mentioning though , i am not sure i can agree with that point of view . What i mean is that , if sin didn't exist there would not be a violation of free will , since there would be no choise that would be deprived from us .

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That's fine, I have no proof.

The "sin" was Adam disobeying God's Word. We descended from this fallen Adam. Christ came to bring us back in to Adam's previous state of relationship with God, one in which we Walk with Him in the Garden, even now. It is referred to as "Grace". And so is it for us who have died to our sins and all that connect us to Adam, and we are born forth of the water and the Word, receiving the Holy Resurrected Spirit of our risen Lord, into our Temple Bodies. We who are Faithful. This is the Bible story in a nutshell, and we sing about it a lot this time of year. Salvation, Peace on earth, Good will toward men... all accomplished when we open the door to Jesus.

(Rev 3:20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

bobhikes said:

A&E and Eden are symbolism for all humans and their choice to have faith or not.

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So humans are continually choosing to eat the apple, even those who don't even know they're doing so. And god knows this, and is quite fine with it. Again, "Nice guy"

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Skwim said:

So humans are continually choosing to eat the apple, even those who don't even know they're doing so. And god knows this, and is quite fine with it. Again, "Nice guy"

.

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Yes that is correct, humans keep choosing to eat the apple, God wants us to have the choice so yes he is fine with. The only thing I would disagree with is that you don't know, people know when they do wrong. Does this mean religions have sins right, no. Religions are interpretations made by humans. God or Evolution programmed Humans to succeed not to fail.

socharlie said:

World you see with your eyes is purposely organized this way so we, the souls, know good and evil and learned to choose good. Just a rehabilitation colony . God was not in business to created evil-less world, God meant us to built one.

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Your reply reminds me of Jesus' words that humble people, the meek will inherit the Earth.
So, to me that indicates such humble meek people will build an evil-less world once the wicked are gone.
So, after the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 takes place on Earth only the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people will be alive on Earth, and can continue to live on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One when Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth begins. The wicked will be gone as per Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalms 92:7 but the upright remain as per Psalms 37:9-11,29.

Here's another one: Esoteric Christianity - Wikipedia
Esoteric is a catholic form of Christianity not protestant. Most of these things I've listed do not interest me, but I'm just listing them since you wanted to see them.

and another one: Contemplative Christianity. Some independent catholics like this. The Contemplative Society – Contemplative teaching, retreats, and meditation

Skwim said:

So humans are continually choosing to eat the apple, even those who don't even know they're doing so. And god knows this, and is quite fine with it. Again, "Nice guy"
.

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That is why the good news of Matthew 24:14 about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 is Now being proclaimed on an international basis so that people everywhere on Earth will have the opportunity to know what they are doing.
We all will choose as to who we would like as Sovereign over us.