Do different religions have a different idea of heaven/hell? How is this possible?

April Fool said:

For example, there is only ONE New York city, and everyone regardless of their religion knows this and they would probably know what you were talking about if you said you were going to New York city.

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Clearly, such is not the case for conceptions of heaven and hell.

Therefore, assuming that heaven is supposed to be a place that actually exists, it stands to reason that everyone regardless of their religion should have the same idea of what and where heaven is, and they should also all be thinking of the same place when someone refers to "heaven."

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It seems to me that most people believe heaven and hell to be literally otherworldly in at least one sense.

Many think of them as purely symbolic concepts, environments with non-physical existence, or actual physical places that nonetheless are not part of this sphere that we call Earth.

(Comparatively) very few people seem to actually expect to find either realm on the surface of this planet.

I myself am a Christian for what it's worth, but if, for example, Christians have a different idea of what and where heaven is than do people of other faiths, then this basically says that heaven is a place that exists only as a matter of people's religious beliefs (since it can be different based on your beliefs), and not as an actual place.

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It seems to me that many people would indeed reach such a conclusion. I don't think that is a problem at all, personally.

If, on the other hand it is supposed to be an actual existing place, then everyone regardless of their religion would and should think of it as the same place in the same location and should all consider themselves to be going to that place when they say that they are going to heaven. Of course the same argument could be made about hell, but my point still stands.

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I think a strong can be made that such a conclusion is actually unproper, bad religious practice.

Some religions have no concept of heaven or hell at all.

April Fool said:

For example, there is only ONE New York city, and everyone regardless of their religion knows this and they would probably know what you were talking about if you said you were going to New York city. Therefore, assuming that heaven is supposed to be a place that actually exists, it stands to reason that everyone regardless of their religion should have the same idea of what and where heaven is, and they should also all be thinking of the same place when someone refers to "heaven." I myself am a Christian for what it's worth, but if, for example, Christians have a different idea of what and where heaven is than do people of other faiths, then this basically says that heaven is a place that exists only as a matter of people's religious beliefs (since it can be different based on your beliefs), and not as an actual place. If, on the other hand it is supposed to be an actual existing place, then everyone regardless of their religion would and should think of it as the same place in the same location and should all consider themselves to be going to that place when they say that they are going to heaven. Of course the same argument could be made about hell, but my point still stands.

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It is possible that people have different views because of what they have been taught.
For example:
There are basically two (2) hells:
(1) the Bible's hell or temporary grave, and (2) the non-biblical hell of burning forever.
As the people migrated out of ancient Babylon they took with them their non-biblical ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great. That is why we see so many similar or overlapping ideas in the religious world about a burning hell of some sort.
Whereas the temporary Bible's hell is simply most of mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the unconscious sleeping dead until Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years. That is why Jesus taught sleep in death at John 11:11-14 in harmony with the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach silence in death as per Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.

KenS said:

Here we have a person who took the same foundation as others (in his example) but comes to a completely different conclussion ( a different set of thoughts).

I would view it differently. If I would take his foundational belief system, I would say "Even though I killed the bank teller and it was my decision to do so, the judge is an unloving judge because he sent me to jail for 5 consequtive life terms and I am going to suffer. And the jailer is even more unloving because he put me in solitary confinement. Who cares if I hit him? He is DEFINITELY an unloving jailer".

Again, we used the same foundation but came to two different conclusions. Thus we have differing viewpoints of a Heaven.

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So you have two people involved in your punishment of a murderer, the judge and the jailer. How about throwing in guard, the son of the bank teller he killed, who keeps spitting into his food every day? No matter how much you compound the punishment it will never come close to god's scheme of having you suffer for all of eternity for some defect in your character that prompted you to kill the teller. I say, defect, because very often we have no reasonable control over our actions, like the kid who enjoys to bully other kids. Think he's behaving rationally? People are often controlled by a warped psychological makeup, but according to the Bible god makes no allowances for such extenuating circumstances.

And adultery is one of the biggies; one of the Ten Commandments no less. Have an unbidden sexual predilection that made you once lust for someone? Too bad. It makes no difference that you once lusted over Marilyn Monroe in the nude calendar photo of her, you're bound for hell kiddo, and for eternity no less. Think the punishment doesn't fit the crime? It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what god wants, and he wants you to suffer forever for your moment of lust. ................Now THAT'S unloving.

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Jayhawker Soule said:

I can define hell as a place of eternal punishment without knowing anything about the nature of that punishment or, for that matter, the nature of 'place.'

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You have defined what you're referring to regarding hell.

But how about x? You wrote, "the existence of n conflicting opinions of x does not, in and of itself invalidate all n; one could be accurate while n-1 are false and "even if all n are false, that would not in and of itself disprove x, it simply indicates that each n inadequately describes it" without defining x, which generalizes the matter beyond a definition of hell. The point was, that using a term lacking a specific definition like the one you just provided, we don't know what we're talking about.

Do zelebixi exist (don't bother looking it up - I just made the word up). What if I said that they did?

leibowde84 said:

This is an unfair assumption. There are pictures of NYC, there are books about it, history, tangible monuments, buildings, etc. With heaven there are none of these things, and no one has ever been there and returned.

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Some of us have been and returned, they call it a n Death Experience

April Fool said:

assuming that heaven is supposed to be a place that actually exists, it stands to reason that everyone regardless of their religion should have the same idea of what and where heaven is, and they should also all be thinking of the same place when someone refers to "heaven."

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I wouldn't understand if different religions had the same description of heaven. We can only report on material places that we see with our bodily senses. Only immaterial souls can go to Heaven. So any attempt to describe Heaven in specific material terms is impossible. You'd have as much luck trying to measure the length of a soul.

Eliab ben Benjamin said:

Some of us have been and returned, they call it a n Death Experience

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How do you know it was heaven? What evidence are you basing that on? Couldn't it have been merely an illusion, or the brains response to being near death. For example, when people drowned, the brain releases chemicals near the end that can cause hallucinations and feelings of euphoria.

April Fool said:

For example, there is only ONE New York city, and everyone regardless of their religion knows this and they would probably know what you were talking about if you said you were going to New York city.

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And there are multiple Memphis', multiple Springfield's, multiple Georgia's ...

April Fool said:

I myself am a Christian for what it's worth, but if, for example, Christians have a different idea of what and where heaven is than do people of other faiths, then this basically says that heaven is a place that exists only as a matter of people's religious beliefs (since it can be different based on your beliefs), and not as an actual place.

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Or maybe "there are many mansions". In other words, even if there's one afterlife, your life will bias how the next one will look.

April Fool said:

If, on the other hand it is supposed to be an actual existing place, then everyone regardless of their religion would and should think of it as the same place in the same location and should all consider themselves to be going to that place when they say that they are going to heaven.

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When you are nothing essentially but thought, you realize reality is just thought, too. That makes it ... "flexible".

whitemulberries said:

have told others how to get there

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Oh, that reminds me: there are multiple Sesame Streets, too.

KenS said:

the judge is an unloving judge because he sent me to jail for 5 consequtive life terms

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But in a human court, it's a farce to sentence people to multiple life sentences when we only acknowledge one of them.

It Aint Necessarily So said:

The point was, that using a term lacking a specific definition like the one you just provided, we don't know what we're talking about.

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I fully agree that you don't know that we're talking about but that, in and of itself, is not evidence of absence. Now drop the sophomoric nonsense and move along.

Parenthetically, the term ignosticism was coined by Rabbi Sherwin Wine, a man I was fortunate enough to meet with on more than one occasion prior to his timely death. He deserves better.

Skwim said:

So you have two people involved in your punishment of a murderer, the judge and the jailer. How about throwing in guard, the son of the bank teller he killed, who keeps spitting into his food every day? No matter how much you compound the punishment it will never come close to god's scheme of having you suffer for all of eternity for some defect in your character that prompted you to kill the teller.
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I'm not sure how that compares... God offers a "get out of jail" card... the judge doesn't. So I would have to say that the compounding is on forgiveness and not punishment for what we do wrong.

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I say, defect, because very often we have no reasonable control over our actions, like the kid who enjoys to bully other kids. Think he's behaving rationally?
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We don't have reasonable control??? So, I killed someone and I can say "I couldn't help myself!"?

People are often controlled by a warped psychological makeup. But according to the Bible god makes no allowances for such extenuating circumstances.

Matthew 5:27-30
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
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And adultery is one of the biggies; one of the Ten Commandments no less. Have an unbidden sexual predilection that made you once lust for someone? Too bad. It makes no difference that you lusted once over Marilyn Monroe in the nude calendar photo of her, you're bound for hell kiddo, and for eternity no less. Think the punishment doesn't fit the crime? It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is what god wants, and he wants you to suffer forever for your moment of lust. ................Now THAT'S unloving.

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With your interpretation... yes. However, yours isn't the only interpretation and your view doesn't line up with the rest of the story.

April Fool said:

For example, there is only ONE New York city, and everyone regardless of their religion knows this and they would probably know what you were talking about if you said you were going to New York city. Therefore, assuming that heaven is supposed to be a place that actually exists, it stands to reason that everyone regardless of their religion should have the same idea of what and where heaven is, and they should also all be thinking of the same place when someone refers to "heaven." I myself am a Christian for what it's worth, but if, for example, Christians have a different idea of what and where heaven is than do people of other faiths, then this basically says that heaven is a place that exists only as a matter of people's religious beliefs (since it can be different based on your beliefs), and not as an actual place. If, on the other hand it is supposed to be an actual existing place, then everyone regardless of their religion would and should think of it as the same place in the same location and should all consider themselves to be going to that place when they say that they are going to heaven. Of course the same argument could be made about hell, but my point still stands.

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It's a good question, you touch upon there being a personal dimension to heaven.. and that's only logical:


John 14:2-4 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

KenS said:

I'm not sure how that compares... God offers a "get out of jail" card... the judge doesn't. So I would have to say that the compounding is on forgiveness and not punishment for what we do wrong.

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But the "get out of jail" card is extremely conditional. It depends on knowing that adultery, for example, is a sin. Not everybody is a Christian, OR even as an aware non Christian, being convinced it's true, OR even having ever heard about the sin of adultery. So, with no such exculpatory circumstances ever being announced in the Bible, one can only concluded they don't exist. Don't qualify for a "get out of jail" card, (which I assume is a declaration that Jesus is one's lord and savior)? Tough. Prepare for hell, kid.

We don't have reasonable control??? So, I killed someone and I can say "I couldn't help myself!"?

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Yup, and if a judge determines you're not mentally competent to be judged culpable you won't be found lawfully guilty. God has never announced any such defense. Of course people can conjecture all they want that god would never send someone to hell who didn't know better, but that's all it is, conjecture. It's not a "judgement" of god that appears anywhere in the Bible that I know of.

With your interpretation... yes. However, yours isn't the only interpretation

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Fine, give me an alternative interpretation that stays within the bounds of biblical scripture.

and your view doesn't line up with the rest of the story.

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Lining up with the rest of what story?

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Skwim said:

But the "get out of jail" card is extremely conditional. It depends on knowing that adultery, for example, is a sin. Not everybody is a Christian, OR even as an aware non Christian, being convinced it's true, OR even having ever heard about the sin of adultery. So, with no such exculpatory circumstances ever being announced in the Bible, one can only concluded they don't exist. Don't qualify for a "get out of jail" card, (which I assume is a declaration that Jesus is one's lord and savior)? Tough. Prepare for hell, kid.

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No... I don't think so. First, your reading on adultery has everything to do with taking one scripture out of context and at the epense of all other scripture. But you never ask.

Second, God's decisions are based on the heart... mankind only bases his/her decisions on what they see.

Last, why no prepare for Heaven instead?


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Yup, and if a judge determines you're not mentally competent to be judged culpable you won't be found lawfully guilty. God has never announced any such defense. Of course people can conjecture all they want that god would never send someone to hell who didn't know better, but that's all it is, conjecture. It's not a "judgement" of god that appears anywhere in the Bible that I know of.

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Acutally, conjecture is mankind taking the position of who qualifies and who doesn't.


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Fine, give me an alternative interpretation that stays within the bounds of biblical scripture.

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Since Jesus never gouged anyone's eyes out... you would be hard pressed that he meant that literally.
If you read the WHOLE of the words stated, you would see that basically man has his viewpoints which are necessarily God's (as you have so demonstrated by your interpretation).
If you read the WHOLE of the words stated, one would realize that basically he is saying "everyone sins" and therefore needs forgiveness. He is the forgiveness.
And lastly, he was speaking according to the law (if one wanted to be exact on what was right and what was wrong according to the law) and not according to God's grace - he wasn't speaking about his forgiveness for the world.


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Lining up with the rest of what story?
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The Christmas story, of course

I believe the answer is that other religions are not getting their information from God.

sunrise123 said:

First welcome to RF.

Yes, various religions have very different ideas about heaven and hell. One way of perhaps looking at it is your NYC example. There are many many different neighborhoods in the City with very different characteristics. Being in downtown Manhattan is very different from being in some neighborhoods in the Bronx and so forth.

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I believe that doesn't work. NYC is still recognized as NYC. I suppose if one were describing Heaven then it would apply because Heaven is completely visionary and each person can have his own vision.

Skwim said:

Different people developed different religions to suit different needs and goals, and to meet these needs they define various concepts in different ways. Early Jews had no need for hell, so for the most part they've never bothered to give it much of a formal shape. On the other hand, Christians, with their need to convince people to believe in Jesus, found hell a very convenient tool to scare people into accepting Christ as a savior from the place. It never made much difference how they presented hell as long as it served its purpose. So different denominations approached hell differently, Some found good success with an eternal fire and brimstone concept, whereas others found this far too over the top and were content with hell as a simple separation from god, sometimes making hell only a temporary stopover to heaven.

Personally, I'd say that if one is going to accept the Bible as the word of god, all the Bible, then one would be pretty much obligated to regard hell as a place of eternal suffering. Of course this doesn't speak very well of a loving god, but them's the consequences of Christianity. In for a dime, in for a dollar, no matter how illogical and cruel it may be.
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I believe they did not write from need but wrote what God was telling them. I believe God does not tell people about Hell until it becomes relevant.

I believe that is not true. A loving God has to reward those who are good and punish those who are evil.

I believe that is not a consequence for Christians. We are not going to Hell and soon will have no need to go to Heaven since we will have eternal life.

Muffled said:

I believe that doesn't work. NYC is still recognized as NYC. I suppose if one were describing Heaven then it would apply because Heaven is completely visionary and each person can have his own vision.

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Many decades ago when I had relatives in NYC, the Bronx was definitely very different than Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn. Living conditions, wealth, culture and so forth all varied by location.

KenS said:

I'm not sure how that compares... God offers a "get out of jail" card... the judge doesn't.

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Acquittal and parole exist in the human courts.

Besides, how does wiping away the sin help the victims? Do murder victims come back to life if the murderer repents and turns to God? At least we can keep murderers away from society, though they can still kill people in prison until we fix that problem.

Also, the Egyptians had a get out of jail card. Yahweh's not the only one. They had this thing called the Book of the Dead. Do what it says and you go to "heaven".

KenS said:

We don't have reasonable control??? So, I killed someone and I can say "I couldn't help myself!"?

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If someone cut your brakes and you didn't know it, you can be helpless when you kill someone. That's why we have charges other than first degree murder.

KenS said:

Second, God's decisions are based on the heart

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So the guy who was just trying to keep the Ark from falling to the ground was evil in his heart despite wanting to help do something good? Was that why he died?

(I mean, other than the fact it's a really heavy box so of course he died, but the bible says God struck him down.)

Eliab ben Benjamin said:

Some of us have been and returned, they call it a n Death Experience

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No, they have not been and returned, This is a classic urban myth, To truly 'been and return' you would have to be truly 'dead dead and return.'

Near death experiences too often simply justify one's own belief system, and the person;s brain remains very much alive..