syo
Well-Known Member
it's birth.
-
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Birth of Christ
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
syo
Well-Known Member
any human can find the truth that comes from the bible with the help of the holy spirit if they are pure at heart.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Jesus came to cure blindness.
Why?
Because satan is the author of deception, and he uses humans to spread his deception, and he uses blindness to keep the people deceived.
That’s why one needs to let Jesus cure their blindness. Only He has the power.
Why?
Because satan is the author of deception, and he uses humans to spread his deception, and he uses blindness to keep the people deceived.
That’s why one needs to let Jesus cure their blindness. Only He has the power.
About 10 billion years earlier by bible reckoning. "in the beginning was the logos, the logos was god the logos is god, he was with god in the beginning." An outrageous claim actually.
Now if we wanna turn the text into religious cartoon land or * scientific Latin term "cartoonium" or Greek term "cartoonus" and the medical term cartoonism, then we must first read the text in clueless fashion in context to what I said earlier about the logos. Once we are rendered clueless then we can Co equate the bible with historical earth Days. Was their a day before the earth? According to biblical cartoonism no. We then must ask Is biblical cartoonism, a mental defect? Is it congenital? Is it transmittable? I only use the term defect because it's the only term cartoonism understands in context to nature!!!
*REFER TO DAVID-WIKI OR DAVIKI FOR DIASAMBIGUATION.
so if we are the light of the world that sets upon a hill, we don't need external light? love leads to understanding?
Revelation 21:23
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (the Father) and the Word was God". Later the Word was made flesh (Jesus) and dwelt among men. So the Father and word have always existed and the Word was later born with a physical body as Jesus.
in the beginning was the logic and the understanding was with god and the cloud enveloped god. this was god in the beginning and the concept became light.
light from darkness
behold he is coming clothed in darkness and like lightning flashing from the cloud, it will appear.
I don't think so...
Jesus... Col 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
If Jesus was created... then not all things were created by him and for him.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
If he was made (light)... then there was something that was made without him.
1 Jhn 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
We know that God didn't create Himself because God existed before that light... so it must be refering to something else
No.
Jesus is never mentioned in the Tanakh.
The idea that he'd always existed is a consequence of the Trinity doctrine, which is from a time in the politics of the early Christian church when his followers wanted Jesus to be God but felt they needed to get around Jewish charges of polytheism.
The NT gives no basis for the Trinity doctrine ─ as you've no doubt noticed, across the four gospels Jesus expressly, explicitly and repeatedly denies that he's God.
And the doctrine itself is incoherent, as the RCC and Anglicans (at the least) admit by their use of the euphemism 'mystery'.
I would say that the Christ Spirit, which is the same Spirit in all God Messengers given to Humanity, have existed with God eternally. Time is not a factor here.
There is also no time that we could imagine God without a Creation.
Thus I feel we should read these passages as a Spiritual Awakening of Humanity.
Each time a New Message is given becomes a creation of a New heaven and a New Earth, the Old having passed away.
Regards Tony
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
No because Jesus spoke in his prayer in John 17 of glory he always had with the Father before the world was made
we always existed in some other form. god doesn't create from ex nihilo. he used the spirit and water. jesus even said that unless you are born of spirit and water, you can't realize the kingdom of heaven.
the Spirit of the Lord was upon him luke 4:18. he didn't even call himself Lord. he belonged to someone else. he had a higher master.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Colossians says all things were by Him, for Him, through Him and for Him, Him being Jesus
74x12
Well-Known Member
No, He was not born on the first day. However, Jesus certainly is the Light of Genesis 1:3. This is the Light that is the predestined Christ. As it says that God made the world in 7 periods of Light called days. Thus, God made all things in Christ's Light. God finished ALL His work on the 7th day and entered into His rest. This 7th day is the end of these ages and is the beginning of the new heaven and earth. When God's work will REALLY be done. (John 5:17) And is God's eternal rest in the new Jerusalem. (Psalm 132:14) But, I digress ... please read the following about Jesus the Light of Genesis 1:3:
The Mystery of John Chapter One
The mystery of John chapter one can only be understood by linking it with Genesis chapter one. John knew this mystery and writes of it here under the guidance of the holy Spirit. The epistle 1st John chapter 1 also helps to shed important light on the same topic. So you have three separate chapters, each of them the first chapter of three separate books of the Bible that all deal with this mystery. And it is the first five verses of each chapter that we have to do with.
The Word that was with God and yet was God, was the first Word God ever spoke in the Bible.
“… God said Let there be Light” (Genesis 1:3).
The earth(land) was yet without form. That is the LAND was without form because it was all under the water. That is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the deep. These waters symbolize people, nations, languages and tongues as the book of Revelation says the sea symbolizes. (Rev. 17:15) God moving upon the water symbolizes how God moves upon the people to bring to pass His will. God sends His holy Spirit to move upon people to bring His will to pass. The Word was with God according to John chapter 1. This is what Genesis implies when it says that God saw the Light and divided it from the darkness. That is the same darkness that covered the waters which symbolizes the “shadow of death” that covered all the nations and people of all the world.
“The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.” (Isaiah 9:2)
“For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.” (Isaiah 60:2)
So, we can see that God separated this Light which was destined for the darkened people; keeping it with Himself until the time when the Light would be manifest into the world.
“… God divided the light from the darkness.” (Genesis 1:4)
It is good to know that from the very first chapter of Genesis there was promised a Savior for the world. If darkness represents the “shadow of death”(Isaiah 9:2) which is over all the people; then what does Light represent? Light is the opposite of darkness. There is only one thing that Light can represent for the people. Light can be none other than Life.
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” (John 1:4)
“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” (John 8:12)
So, God knew that people would be under the power of death and God knew from the beginning that He would send eternal Life to the people. Thus, in foreknowledge God preordained this Light's coming into the darkened world in the mystery of Genesis 1:1-5. Yet, God reserved the Light (the predestined Light of the world), keeping it with Himself and hiding it in mystery until the time of it's revealing. Thus, John says in John 1:1 that the “Word was with God”. For indeed it was. This is the Word of the predestined Light. The first Word of God recorded in the Bible. In 1st John chapter 1 we see that this Word is called the “Word of Life” and is “eternal Life” that was “with” the Father but finally manifest in the form of Jesus Christ.
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
”So, we see that John wasn't talking about a distinct “person” called “God the Word”. Such an idea is no where presented within the scriptures. This “Word” that was “with” the Father was simply the foreordained incarnation of God into the world. To put it another way, God had already established that He would indeed come into the world. He had spoken this Word from Genesis and He had reserved this Word of deliverance for mankind with Himself until the set time. In other words, God who is Light(1 John 1:5) would one day, also be the “Light of the world” as well. Until that time, the world would still be in darkness. Jesus is not called the “bright and MORNING Star”(Rev. 22:16) without reason. He is called that, because He is the true Morning for those who believe. The beginning of spiritual Day.
Until the true Light came, there were those who were ordained of God to bear witness to the Light that was to come into the world. These were the prophets of old who bore witness to the Light that would come into the world. As Jesus said, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” All these prophets culminated in John the baptist who was the final witness of the Light before His open revealing in the world.
“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.” (John 1:7-8)
Just by bearing witness to the Light, these prophets shined the Light to the people. But it was not as it would be. For it was yet night and all were under the shadow of death. They had the promise of the resurrection if they obeyed, but they would not be resurrected(nor overcome the darkness/death) without Jesus the Light of Life.
We've already covered that the darkness is the power of death that is over all the people and that the Light is eternal Life. Jesus is the Light. He came to destroy the devil who had the power of death. (Heb. 2:14)
“… that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” (Hebrews 2:14)
However, Jesus would only do so, through dying Himself. Thus, John says:
“And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].” AMP Bible
To show, that through the resurrection, the Light was not ever put out by the darkness. Indeed, the Light prevailed. That is, eternal Life which was Jesus Christ prevailed over the power of death.
So, we have answered the question of why the Word is said to be “WITH” God. It is with God in the same way that a father would keep a gift stored away for his child. He keeps it with himself hidden until the day when the child would receive the gift. Thus, God kept the Word of predestination that would bring Christ into the world with Himself until the time of His revealing to the world.
“But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1 Peter 1:19-20)
Now we will answer the question as to why the Word was not only with God, but “WAS” God at the same time.
“n the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5) So when we see God in Gen. 1:3 saying “Let there be Light” We should not take this to mean that God is inventing Light. Because God is not inventing Himself! God IS Light. So, Light already existed. This can only mean that God is speaking Himself into the darkened world. Now we can understand how the Word(the Light) is both with God(because it is the predestined Light of the world) and yet is God(because the Light of the world would be God manifest into the world).
This is the same mystery that Paul speaks of saying:
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” (2 Corinthians 4:6)
So all the Light that shined in Jesus was the knowledge of the glory of God which shined in His face for those who believed. That is those who had eyes to see. Because it is only the blind that cannot see Light. And it is only the deaf that could not hear the Word of Life that God had sent into the world. So we could have looked right at Jesus and only saw a Man, but with the eyes of faith we could see the Light of the glory of God which is the Light of Life. Thus, the Light of God shining from Jesus Christ in a darkened world was the fulfilling of Genesis 1:3.
Although the Light shined in the darkness, the darkness did not receive it. However, those who came out of darkness received the Light. And the Light shined in the darkness of their hearts. Making them new. Here is a new Day for them. It begins now within anyone who is born again. As the scripture speaks of the time when the Day Star shall arise in their hearts. This is speaking of Jesus who will arise and shine in their hearts as the “Sun of Righteousness with healing in His wings”. The church/the bride of Christ is who God is speaking to in Isaiah 60:1-2. For God once shined in the darkness of the world in the form of Jesus Christ. But, He is shinning again in His people the bride of Christ. Whoever has the Spirit of Christ in them. This is the shining city on a hill that cannot be hidden. This is the Light of Christ shining in them. For God who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness has shined in their hearts.
“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:” (Col 1:13)
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.” (2 Corinthians 4:3-7)
Jesus is the Light of the world, the visible, tangible image of the invisible God and He shined in the darkness of this world and in His face was the light of the glory of God.
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;” (1 John 1:1)
thanks for the hint to another thread.
the Father is greater. if you're a trinitarian that nullifies jesus' being equal to god
John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
John 14:28
“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
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No, He was not born on the first day. However, Jesus certainly is the Light of Genesis 1:3. This is the Light that is the predestined Christ. As it says that God made the world in 7 periods of Light called days. Thus, God made all things in Christ's Light. God finished ALL His work on the 7th day and entered into His rest. This 7th day is the end of these ages and is the beginning of the new heaven and earth. When God's work will REALLY be done. (John 5:17) And is God's eternal rest in the new Jerusalem. (Psalm 132:14) But, I digress ... please read the following about Jesus the Light of Genesis 1:3:
The Mystery of John Chapter One
The mystery of John chapter one can only be understood by linking it with Genesis chapter one. John knew this mystery and writes of it here under the guidance of the holy Spirit. The epistle 1st John chapter 1 also helps to shed important light on the same topic. So you have three separate chapters, each of them the first chapter of three separate books of the Bible that all deal with this mystery. And it is the first five verses of each chapter that we have to do with.
The Word that was with God and yet was God, was the first Word God ever spoke in the Bible.
“… God said Let there be Light” (Genesis 1:3).
The earth(land) was yet without form. That is the LAND was without form because it was all under the water. That is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the deep. These waters symbolize people, nations, languages and tongues as the book of Revelation says the sea symbolizes. (Rev. 17:15) God moving upon the water symbolizes how God moves upon the people to bring to pass His will. God sends His holy Spirit to move upon people to bring His will to pass. The Word was with God according to John chapter 1. This is what Genesis implies when it says that God saw the Light and divided it from the darkness. That is the same darkness that covered the waters which symbolizes the “shadow of death” that covered all the nations and people of all the world.
“The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.” (Isaiah 9:2)
“For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.” (Isaiah 60:2)
So, we can see that God separated this Light which was destined for the darkened people; keeping it with Himself until the time when the Light would be manifest into the world.
“… God divided the light from the darkness.” (Genesis 1:4)
It is good to know that from the very first chapter of Genesis there was promised a Savior for the world. If darkness represents the “shadow of death”(Isaiah 9:2) which is over all the people; then what does Light represent? Light is the opposite of darkness. There is only one thing that Light can represent for the people. Light can be none other than Life.
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” (John 1:4)
“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” (John 8:12)
So, God knew that people would be under the power of death and God knew from the beginning that He would send eternal Life to the people. Thus, in foreknowledge God preordained this Light's coming into the darkened world in the mystery of Genesis 1:1-5. Yet, God reserved the Light (the predestined Light of the world), keeping it with Himself and hiding it in mystery until the time of it's revealing. Thus, John says in John 1:1 that the “Word was with God”. For indeed it was. This is the Word of the predestined Light. The first Word of God recorded in the Bible. In 1st John chapter 1 we see that this Word is called the “Word of Life” and is “eternal Life” that was “with” the Father but finally manifest in the form of Jesus Christ.
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
So, we see that John wasn't talking about a distinct “person” called “God the Word”. Such an idea is no where presented within the scriptures. This “Word” that was “with” the Father was simply the foreordained incarnation of God into the world. To put it another way, God had already established that He would indeed come into the world. He had spoken this Word from Genesis and He had reserved this Word of deliverance for mankind with Himself until the set time. In other words, God who is Light(1 John 1:5) would one day, also be the “Light of the world” as well. Until that time, the world would still be in darkness. Jesus is not called the “bright and MORNING Star”(Rev. 22:16) without reason. He is called that, because He is the true Morning for those who believe. The beginning of spiritual Day.
Until the true Light came, there were those who were ordained of God to bear witness to the Light that was to come into the world. These were the prophets of old who bore witness to the Light that would come into the world. As Jesus said, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” All these prophets culminated in John the baptist who was the final witness of the Light before His open revealing in the world.
“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.” (John 1:7-8)
Just by bearing witness to the Light, these prophets shined the Light to the people. But it was not as it would be. For it was yet night and all were under the shadow of death. They had the promise of the resurrection if they obeyed, but they would not be resurrected(nor overcome the darkness/death) without Jesus the Light of Life.
We've already covered that the darkness is the power of death that is over all the people and that the Light is eternal Life. Jesus is the Light. He came to destroy the devil who had the power of death. (Heb. 2:14)
“… that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” (Hebrews 2:14)
However, Jesus would only do so, through dying Himself. Thus, John says:
“And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].” AMP Bible
To show, that through the resurrection, the Light was not ever put out by the darkness. Indeed, the Light prevailed. That is, eternal Life which was Jesus Christ prevailed over the power of death.
So, we have answered the question of why the Word is said to be “WITH” God. It is with God in the same way that a father would keep a gift stored away for his child. He keeps it with himself hidden until the day when the child would receive the gift. Thus, God kept the Word of predestination that would bring Christ into the world with Himself until the time of His revealing to the world.
“But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,” (1 Peter 1:19-20)
Now we will answer the question as to why the Word was not only with God, but “WAS” God at the same time.
“n the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)
God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5) So when we see God in Gen. 1:3 saying “Let there be Light” We should not take this to mean that God is inventing Light. Because God is not inventing Himself! God IS Light. So, Light already existed. This can only mean that God is speaking Himself into the darkened world. Now we can understand how the Word(the Light) is both with God(because it is the predestined Light of the world) and yet is God(because the Light of the world would be God manifest into the world).
This is the same mystery that Paul speaks of saying:
“For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” (2 Corinthians 4:6)
So all the Light that shined in Jesus was the knowledge of the glory of God which shined in His face for those who believed. That is those who had eyes to see. Because it is only the blind that cannot see Light. And it is only the deaf that could not hear the Word of Life that God had sent into the world. So we could have looked right at Jesus and only saw a Man, but with the eyes of faith we could see the Light of the glory of God which is the Light of Life. Thus, the Light of God shining from Jesus Christ in a darkened world was the fulfilling of Genesis 1:3.
Although the Light shined in the darkness, the darkness did not receive it. However, those who came out of darkness received the Light. And the Light shined in the darkness of their hearts. Making them new. Here is a new Day for them. It begins now within anyone who is born again. As the scripture speaks of the time when the Day Star shall arise in their hearts. This is speaking of Jesus who will arise and shine in their hearts as the “Sun of Righteousness with healing in His wings”. The church/the bride of Christ is who God is speaking to in Isaiah 60:1-2. For God once shined in the darkness of the world in the form of Jesus Christ. But, He is shinning again in His people the bride of Christ. Whoever has the Spirit of Christ in them. This is the shining city on a hill that cannot be hidden. This is the Light of Christ shining in them. For God who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness has shined in their hearts.
“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:” (Col 1:13)
“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.” (2 Corinthians 4:3-7)
Jesus is the Light of the world, the visible, tangible image of the invisible God and He shined in the darkness of this world and in His face was the light of the glory of God.
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;” (1 John 1:1)
I AM the light of the world too as stated by your idol, a city set on a hill. I AM the new jerusalem.
OUR Father makes me the child of god, makes everything created the offspring, the created
John 3:8
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
This is an ironic request?
God told me He didn't say half the stuff in there and it was written by humans. Upon verification, humans did indeed write the bible. Now what?
But THAT'S a lie. Satan never lies in any of his scenes. He is merely claimed to be a liar. He doesn't put darkness in you. He reveals darkness in you. The Book of Job isn't actually about Job if you take the heavenly scenes into account: it's a story of God being baited into immorality and it doesn't even take any long monologues for God to go "yup, let's mess him up". He admits He is doing this for no reason. He ADMITS it openly.
I don't play for the Satanist team, but I can definitely see how they came up with their conclusions. The only one with a convenient definition of "Truth" is God, which is a shame.
At least, that's how He is in the bible. As I don't worship the bible or consider it divine in any way, I am free to feel the real God isn't like that.
If only I could find that in Genesis, which doesn't seem to mention it at all.
But unlike Paul hopes, we can turn to those other books and look it up for ourselves. Jesus isn't there. Paul is lying and hoping his audience is illiterate.