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Just How Many Lords/Jehovahs are There?

Skwim

Veteran Member
Consider
Genesis 19:23-24
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot came unto Zoar. 24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;​

Note that one of the Jehovahs rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and the other Jehovah rained fire from out of heaven.


_________________________________

Exodus 12:23
23 At the time the Lord goes through Egypt to kill the firstborn, he will see the blood on the sides and top of each door frame. Then he will protect that house and not let the Destroyer come into any of your houses and hurt you.
Note how the Lord is to protect some of the first born from the destroyer. And just who is this destroyer? As Exodus 12:29 tells us it's this other Lord. Moreover there were no exceptions, "the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt."

Exodus 12:29
29 At midnight the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh (who ruled Egypt) to the firstborn son of the prisoner sitting in jail. Also all the firstborn animals died.​

_________________________________

Exodus 33:1-3
33 Then the Lord said to Moses, “You and the people you brought out of Egypt must leave this place. Go to the land that I promised to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I promised them that I would give that land to their descendants. 2 So I will send an angel to go before you, and I will defeat the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. I will force them to leave your land. 3 So go to the land filled with many good things, but I will not go with you. You people are very stubborn. If I go with you, I might destroy you along the way.”

Exodus 33:12-14
12 Moses said to the Lord, “You told me to lead these people, but you did not say who you would send with me. You said to me, ‘I know you very well, and I am pleased with you.’ 13 If I have really pleased you, then teach me your ways. I want to know you. Then I can continue to please you. Remember that these people are your nation.”
14 The Lord answered, “I myself will go with you. I will lead you.”
Note that one of the Lords doesn't go with Moses and the people while the other Lord not only goes with Moses and the people, but leads them.
Of course if one is to suppose this is one-and-the-same lord, then how could he, and omniscient being, have made such a grave error as to originally decide not to go with them because he feared he might destroy the people along the way? It would seem he doesn't know himself and the future very well at all. Omniscience? Pashaw!

.

 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
1. Then Vidaghdha, the son of Sakala, asked him: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?" Yajnavalkya ascertained the number through the group of mantras known as the Nivid and said:
"As many as are mentioned in the Nivid of the Visve—devas— three hundred and three and three thousand and three."
"Very good," said Sakalya (the son of Sakala) and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Thirty—three."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Six."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Three."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Two."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"One and a half."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?" "One."
"Very good," said Sakalya....
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. IX: I
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
1. Then Vidaghdha, the son of Sakala, asked him: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?" Yajnavalkya ascertained the number through the group of mantras known as the Nivid and said:
"As many as are mentioned in the Nivid of the Visve—devas— three hundred and three and three thousand and three."
"Very good," said Sakalya (the son of Sakala) and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Thirty—three."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Six."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Three."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"Two."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?"
"One and a half."
"Very good," said Sakalya and asked again: "How many gods are there, Yajnavalkya?" "One."
"Very good," said Sakalya....
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. IX: I
Not understanding, but the whole thing does come across as kind of ugly.

.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
We talked about this on another post. There is the Lord who is Jesus preincarnate, then there is the Lord who is God the Father in heaven.

That's why David says Psalm 110:1
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
We talked about this on another post. There is the Lord who is Jesus preincarnate, then there is the Lord who is God the Father in heaven.

That's why David says Psalm 110:1
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

Agreed.

Skwim makes an excellent (perhaps inadvertent) argument for Trinitarian theology.

It'll be interesting to see how our resident Unitarians handle it.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Agreed.

Skwim makes an excellent (perhaps inadvertent) argument for Trinitarian theology.

It'll be interesting to see how our resident Unitarians handle it.

No he doesn't. The Trinitarians would say there are two Lords who are one Lord, in their opinion God has a multiple personality disorder.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We talked about this on another post. There is the Lord who is Jesus preincarnate, then there is the Lord who is God the Father in heaven.
That's why David says Psalm 110:1
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

I find at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B; Colossians 1:15 there is No preincarnate Jesus because the pre-human heavenly Jesus was God's heavenly first creation. In other words, as Psalms 90:2 says God is from everlasting (meaning No beginning for God), so Jesus was never before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

KJV used all Upper-Case letters for the Tetragrammaton YHWH (LORD) where God's name appears such as KJV Psalms 83:18.
On the other hand, 'Lord' with some lower-case letters in the KJV Bible stands for the Lord Jesus at Psalms 110.
For Christians as 1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is One God the Father...... and One Lord Jesus Christ.
So, only One is God, and that One God is the Father, whereas Jesus is the One Lord and is Not the Father.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I find at Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B; Colossians 1:15 there is No preincarnate Jesus because the pre-human heavenly Jesus was God's heavenly first creation. In other words, as Psalms 90:2 says God is from everlasting (meaning No beginning for God), so Jesus was never before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

KJV used all Upper-Case letters for the Tetragrammaton YHWH (LORD) where God's name appears such as KJV Psalms 83:18.
On the other hand, 'Lord' with some lower-case letters in the KJV Bible stands for the Lord Jesus at Psalms 110.
For Christians as 1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is One God the Father...... and One Lord Jesus Christ.
So, only One is God, and that One God is the Father, whereas Jesus is the One Lord and is Not the Father.

No, that's all wrong. Only one is called God but they can both be called Lord. Jesus has many titles, no reason God can't be called both God and Lord.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Consider
Genesis 19:23-24
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot came unto Zoar. 24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;​

Note that one of the Jehovahs rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and the other Jehovah rained fire from out of heaven.


_________________________________

Exodus 12:23
23 At the time the Lord goes through Egypt to kill the firstborn, he will see the blood on the sides and top of each door frame. Then he will protect that house and not let the Destroyer come into any of your houses and hurt you.
Note how the Lord is to protect some of the first born from the destroyer. And just who is this destroyer? As Exodus 12:29 tells us it's this other Lord. Moreover there were no exceptions, "the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt."

Exodus 12:29
29 At midnight the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh (who ruled Egypt) to the firstborn son of the prisoner sitting in jail. Also all the firstborn animals died.​

_________________________________

Exodus 33:1-3
33 Then the Lord said to Moses, “You and the people you brought out of Egypt must leave this place. Go to the land that I promised to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I promised them that I would give that land to their descendants. 2 So I will send an angel to go before you, and I will defeat the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. I will force them to leave your land. 3 So go to the land filled with many good things, but I will not go with you. You people are very stubborn. If I go with you, I might destroy you along the way.”

Exodus 33:12-14
12 Moses said to the Lord, “You told me to lead these people, but you did not say who you would send with me. You said to me, ‘I know you very well, and I am pleased with you.’ 13 If I have really pleased you, then teach me your ways. I want to know you. Then I can continue to please you. Remember that these people are your nation.”
14 The Lord answered, “I myself will go with you. I will lead you.”
Note that one of the Lords doesn't go with Moses and the people while the other Lord not only goes with Moses and the people, but leads them.
Of course if one is to suppose this is one-and-the-same lord, then how could he, and omniscient being, have made such a grave error as to originally decide not to go with them because he feared he might destroy the people along the way? It would seem he doesn't know himself and the future very well at all. Omniscience? Pashaw!

In the Hebrew/English Interlinear I find at Genesis 19:23-24 it says that the sun rose upon the earth and Lot arrived at Zoar. Then God (YHWH) caused sulfur and fire to rain upon Sodom and Gomorrah.........

As to Exodus 12:29 remember it was those who sided with wicked Pharaoh were destroyed as per 1 Samuel 6:6; Exodus 9:20-21. Those who listened to God were spared. They had 10 plagues (10 warnings) before trouble came. Each of the 10 plagues humiliated one of those false Egyptian gods.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No, that's all wrong. Only one is called God but they can both be called Lord. Jesus has many titles, no reason God can't be called both God and Lord.

I can agree to the point that the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) only applies to the LORD in all upper-case letters.
The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is never applied to Lord Jesus, and that is why only LORD God is in all capital letters.
Lord Jesus is never in all capital letters as found at KJV Psalms 110, etc.
I find nothing wrong with 1 Corinthians 8:6 that two (2) are mentioned. One as LORD God, one as Lord Jesus.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
In the Hebrew/English Interlinear I find at Genesis 19:23-24 it says that the sun rose upon the earth and Lot arrived at Zoar. Then God (YHWH) caused sulfur and fire to rain upon Sodom and Gomorrah.........
Should we assume then that as far as the Old Testament goes, you consider the Hebrew Tanakh to be more accurate than any Christian translation?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh


As to Exodus 12:29 remember it was those who sided with wicked Pharaoh were destroyed as per 1 Samuel 6:6; Exodus 9:20-21. Those who listened to God were spared. They had 10 plagues (10 warnings) before trouble came. Each of the 10 plagues humiliated one of those false Egyptian gods.
Sorry, but I fail to see the relevance. The Bible clearly says

Exodus 12:23
23 At the time the Lord goes through Egypt to kill the firstborn, he will see the blood on the sides and top of each door frame. Then he will protect that house and not let the Destroyer come into any of your houses and hurt you.​
AND

Exodus 12:29
29 At midnight the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh (who ruled Egypt) to the firstborn son of the prisoner sitting in jail. Also all the firstborn animals died.​

.
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
No he doesn't. The Trinitarians would say there are two Lords who are one Lord, in their opinion God has a multiple personality disorder.

Multiple personality disorder? As a Trinitarian I have never stated that and I'm not aware of any other Trinitarian who has stated this either.

I would have to see a credible source.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Multiple personality disorder? As a Trinitarian I have never stated that and I'm not aware of any other Trinitarian who has stated this either.

I would have to see a credible source.

Do you say "God is one'? All the trinitarians i've heard on this site seem to believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are literally One. So God in their light seems to have a multiple personality disorder. For instance they lead people to believe God sacrificed himself to himself etc. Which just sounds crazy and illogical.
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
Do you say "God is one'?

Yes! :)

All the trinitarians i've heard on this site seem to believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are literally One.

One what?

So God in their light seems to have a multiple personality disorder.

That's the part I don't understand. :(

For instance they lead people to believe God sacrificed himself to himself etc.

That would be Sabellianism.

Which just sounds crazy and illogical.

That's because Sabellianism is.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
Consider
Genesis 19:23-24
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot came unto Zoar. 24 Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;​

Note that one of the Jehovahs rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and the other Jehovah rained fire from out of heaven.


_________________________________

Exodus 12:23
23 At the time the Lord goes through Egypt to kill the firstborn, he will see the blood on the sides and top of each door frame. Then he will protect that house and not let the Destroyer come into any of your houses and hurt you.
Note how the Lord is to protect some of the first born from the destroyer. And just who is this destroyer? As Exodus 12:29 tells us it's this other Lord. Moreover there were no exceptions, "the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt."

Exodus 12:29
29 At midnight the Lord killed all the firstborn sons in Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh (who ruled Egypt) to the firstborn son of the prisoner sitting in jail. Also all the firstborn animals died.​

_________________________________

Exodus 33:1-3
33 Then the Lord said to Moses, “You and the people you brought out of Egypt must leave this place. Go to the land that I promised to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I promised them that I would give that land to their descendants. 2 So I will send an angel to go before you, and I will defeat the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. I will force them to leave your land. 3 So go to the land filled with many good things, but I will not go with you. You people are very stubborn. If I go with you, I might destroy you along the way.”

Exodus 33:12-14
12 Moses said to the Lord, “You told me to lead these people, but you did not say who you would send with me. You said to me, ‘I know you very well, and I am pleased with you.’ 13 If I have really pleased you, then teach me your ways. I want to know you. Then I can continue to please you. Remember that these people are your nation.”
14 The Lord answered, “I myself will go with you. I will lead you.”
Note that one of the Lords doesn't go with Moses and the people while the other Lord not only goes with Moses and the people, but leads them.
Of course if one is to suppose this is one-and-the-same lord, then how could he, and omniscient being, have made such a grave error as to originally decide not to go with them because he feared he might destroy the people along the way? It would seem he doesn't know himself and the future very well at all. Omniscience? Pashaw!

.


Reason? Moses did not get his knowledge (truth) from Heaven.

John:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Jehovah is not the Father Jesus spoke of. The angels gave Moses the "law". (Acts 7).

John:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

When you shun the "all one God" idea of the catholic ideology, you see both Gods at work in the OT and the new that surrounds the Gospel, which IS the true God. Then you understand why the Jews didn't see Christ as well as how the catholic "one God" ideology follows an "angel of light" while not clearly seeing the "light" Christ is.

At that time, your post makes sense, and you become amazed to find it truthful.

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."- Gospel of Thomas

The catholic ideology "stops" man before he can become "amazed", and gain stronger faith in spiritual truth, over the physically controlling "church" of man.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
We talked about this on another post. There is the Lord who is Jesus preincarnate, then there is the Lord who is God the Father in heaven.

That's why David says Psalm 110:1
A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
Jesus said to "love your enemies", not overcome them.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
No he doesn't. The Trinitarians would say there are two Lords who are one Lord, in their opinion God has a multiple personality disorder.
There are two Gods, as is clear by Jesus use of them in John 8.

The Jews said that they had one "Father"

Jesus said they followed the "father" who was a "liar and murderer".

Remember, the Gospel is a mystery to be sought out to understand. Not merely read. That is what got the Jews in trouble.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
There are two Gods, as is clear by Jesus use of them in John 8.

The Jews said that they had one "Father"

Jesus said they followed the "father" who was a "liar and murderer".

Remember, the Gospel is a mystery to be sought out to understand. Not merely read. That is what got the Jews in trouble.

More like around 4300 (3800+ of them creator gods).

Edit: not including the 330 million Hindu gods.
 
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