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"First Copy of Jesus’s Secret Writings to His Brother Recovered From Antiquity in Original Greek"

Skwim

Veteran Member

"11/30/17
For the first time, scholars have found a copy of the original Greek manuscript describing what Jesus secretly taught his brother James.

Biblical scholars at the University of Texas at Austin discovered the manuscript in the Nag Hammadi Library at Oxford University, where it may have been a tool teachers used to help students learn to read and write. According to ScienceDaily, to find a copy of such a manuscript in Greek—the language in which it was originally written—is incredibly rare.

"This new discovery is significant in part because it demonstrates that Christians were still reading and studying extra-canonical writings long after Christian leaders deemed them heretical," Geoffrey Smith, an assistant professor of religious studies at The University of Texas at Austin and one of the two scholars who made the discovery, told Newsweek via email.

Smith and fellow religious scholar Brent Landau announced the discovery at the Society of Biblical Literature Annual Meeting in Boston. The heretical Christian writings describe Jesus teaching his brother James, in secret, about future events, including James’s own death. As Smith explained in the UT Austin press release, writings that added to or changed the existing New Testament in any way were forbidden.

"Jesus tells his brother James that though they are both going to die violently, death is not something to be feared," Landau, a lecturer at the UT Austin Department of Religious Studies, told Newsweek over email. "All James needs is to remember the passwords that his brother has taught him, so that he can escape from the clutches of the archons, a set of demonic beings guarding the material world."

As reported by CNN, in 2002 archaeologists discovered a 2,000-year-old “bone box” inscribed with Aramaic words that translated to "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." It was potentially the first physical evidence of Jesus’s existence and sparked curiosity over who exactly this mysterious brother was. One theory, as professor of New Testament interpretation at Asbury Theological Seminary Ben Witherington III explained to CNN, was that Jesus and James were indeed full brothers (James was younger).

"The New Testament says nothing about Mary being a perpetual virgin; it says she virginally conceived Jesus, and it certainly implies that she went on to have more children after that, and his brothers and sisters are in fact his brothers and sisters," Witherington told CNN."
source
Thoughts?

.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Interesting, but I consider this gospel very late, and not included in the NT for this reason.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
It is NOT the first copy of this text...it IS the first copy of this particular text in ancient Greek, which is presumed to be the language of the original version
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Also, @sunrise123 posted a thread just before this on the same topic, but with a link to a different article, which also links to the full text of the document.

That article (and I believe the previously known Coptic text) clearly state that Jesus and James are spiritual brothers, not biological brothers.

This Newsweek/CNN article also throws in the now largely not-accepted "bone box" story for good measure, and quotes another authority who believes that Jesus and James were indeed biological brothers...not impossible, from what I understand of the ancient texts and traditions, but also not accepted by most current denominations...and scholars are still arguing over which interpretation is correct.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Interesting, but I consider this gospel very late, and not included in the NT for this reason.
From what I can tell, scholars estimate dates from 50-150 for its writing. However, it is definitely in the Gnostic tradition, which was banned and persecuted as heresy by the growing "church" in the 400s.

Here's a website that summarizes the text and provides links to several other websites that discuss or present translations of the text, as well as two translations of the text (from Coptic)...links for those are below...

The Secret Book of James

The Secret Book of James

The Apocryphon of James
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
They are speaking of the 1st Apocalypse of James.

During early Christianity, there were many gospels written by the churches that were taught, not Just by the 12 disciples, but also by Paul as well as the 70 Jesus sent to teach. (Luke 10).

The Bible didn't occur till the 4th century, and once the early catholics determined what books aligned with their ideology, all others were tracked and destroyed along with their believers if they didn't accept the new Church of Rome (Nicaea 325AD).

The Nag Hammadi finds are the content that was circulating during the Christian era of 1st through 4th centuries, and finally destroyed by Constantines world control of what was to be the RCC.

I find the lost books, spiritually informative of how men repaired the veil of the Holy of Holies to reinstate men as priests with all celestial control, as the very Pharisee's did.

Paul warns us with Galatians of the false gospel, and his run in with Peter, the disciple who struggled the most (with truth).

James and Paul were instrumental in the church Christ spoke of. Yet the emerging catholics shunned James for Peter. Google the Incident at Antioch to see Pauls contempt for Peters view, drawing even James and Barnabas into it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
For the first time, scholars have found a copy of the original Greek manuscript describing what Jesus secretly taught his brother James.

Since this fragment has Jesus supposedly speaking about his "wife" (and there is continuing speculation that he was married to Mary Magdalene) what are we to make of the contents of this fragment? Wasn't the "bride" of Christ figuratively his chosen disciples? It was never said that Christ married or had children.....something that would definitely have complicated his mission. As he knew that his death was sure to come, he would hardly have left a widow and children behind.

When he was dying, Jesus gave the care of his mother over to the apostle John. If he had a wife and children, he would have made sure of their care as well. No mention is ever made of any such relationship regarding Jesus.

Jesus most certainly had siblings, one of which was named James.
"Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matthew 13:53-57) There were at least six children in the family (maybe more since the sisters are not named) with Jesus as the oldest and therefore bound to his mother till the age of 30.....the age when he presented himself for baptism. He was definitely not married.

"Jesus tells his brother James that though they are both going to die violently, death is not something to be feared," Landau, a lecturer at the UT Austin Department of Religious Studies, told Newsweek over email. "All James needs is to remember the passwords that his brother has taught him, so that he can escape from the clutches of the archons, a set of demonic beings guarding the material world."

"Passwords"? Does this sound like something we might read in scripture or something from a bad sci-fi movie?

God has enough power to protect his own from demons or anything else if he so chooses. Jesus used no "password" to give the devil the flick when he tried to tempt him 3 times after his baptism.
God did not prevent the untimely deaths of any of Jesus' companions...not even John the Baptist. None of the faithful fear death.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
Since this fragment has Jesus supposedly speaking about his "wife" (and there is continuing speculation that he was married to Mary Magdalene) what are we to make of the contents of this fragment?
Where in the fragment is Jesus supposedly speaking about his "wife"?
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Since this fragment has Jesus supposedly speaking about his "wife" (and there is continuing speculation that he was married to Mary Magdalene) what are we to make of the contents of this fragment? Wasn't the "bride" of Christ figuratively his chosen disciples? It was never said that Christ married or had children.....something that would definitely have complicated his mission. As he knew that his death was sure to come, he would hardly have left a widow and children behind.
This is the interpretation of those who suppressed the texts at Nag Hammadi and their believers. It was more than a thousand years before regular folks could even get to read the texts of their Bible.

When he was dying, Jesus gave the care of his mother over to the apostle John. If he had a wife and children, he would have made sure of their care as well. No mention is ever made of any such relationship regarding Jesus.
In the texts that weren't suppressed you would be correct. Anything that was suppressed, you'll only find hints of in the Bible.

"Passwords"? Does this sound like something we might read in scripture or something from a bad sci-fi movie?
Much of what is "scripture" seems like it's from a bad sci-fi movie to those who don't believe it. Jesus as Word of God become flesh... only through this Word can you get to heaven. Words to pass through the lords of this earth and reach heaven. If either sounds like sci-fi, both do.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
"11/30/17
For the first time, scholars have found a copy of the original Greek manuscript describing what Jesus secretly taught his brother James.

Biblical scholars at the University of Texas at Austin discovered the manuscript in the Nag Hammadi Library at Oxford University, where it may have been a tool teachers used to help students learn to read and write. According to ScienceDaily, to find a copy of such a manuscript in Greek—the language in which it was originally written—is incredibly rare.

"This new discovery is significant in part because it demonstrates that Christians were still reading and studying extra-canonical writings long after Christian leaders deemed them heretical," Geoffrey Smith, an assistant professor of religious studies at The University of Texas at Austin and one of the two scholars who made the discovery, told Newsweek via email.

Smith and fellow religious scholar Brent Landau announced the discovery at the Society of Biblical Literature Annual Meeting in Boston. The heretical Christian writings describe Jesus teaching his brother James, in secret, about future events, including James’s own death. As Smith explained in the UT Austin press release, writings that added to or changed the existing New Testament in any way were forbidden.

"Jesus tells his brother James that though they are both going to die violently, death is not something to be feared," Landau, a lecturer at the UT Austin Department of Religious Studies, told Newsweek over email. "All James needs is to remember the passwords that his brother has taught him, so that he can escape from the clutches of the archons, a set of demonic beings guarding the material world."

As reported by CNN, in 2002 archaeologists discovered a 2,000-year-old “bone box” inscribed with Aramaic words that translated to "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." It was potentially the first physical evidence of Jesus’s existence and sparked curiosity over who exactly this mysterious brother was. One theory, as professor of New Testament interpretation at Asbury Theological Seminary Ben Witherington III explained to CNN, was that Jesus and James were indeed full brothers (James was younger).

"The New Testament says nothing about Mary being a perpetual virgin; it says she virginally conceived Jesus, and it certainly implies that she went on to have more children after that, and his brothers and sisters are in fact his brothers and sisters," Witherington told CNN."
source
Thoughts?

.
I thought James was older than Jesus being a son of Joseph from a prior marriage.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It was in the video in the link you posted.
Interesting that the video is completely irrelevant to the story. The fragment in the video isn't the Greek manuscript describing what Jesus secretly taught his brother James. Newsweek may just as well have put up a video on "sheet-rocking your kitchen ceiling," but thanks for bringing it to my attention.


.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Interesting that the video is completely irrelevant to the story. The fragment in the video isn't the Greek manuscript describing what Jesus secretly taught his brother James. Newsweek may just as well have put up a video on "sheet-rocking your kitchen ceiling," but thanks for bringing it to my attention.
.

The point was that fragments (often discovered discarded on rubbish heaps) have snippets of information taken out of context. The video was still about fragments discovered and attempts to interpret them, if you'd bothered to watch it....a bit more interesting and relevant than "sheet-rocking your kitchen ceiling" I think.

The point about James is that, if one believes that the Bible, (as the world currently knows it) is inspired of God and contains what we need to know, (not necessarily all that we want to know,) then we need nothing more to "build" our own personal "ark" of salvation. Following God's instructions to the letter saved Noah and his family out of a whole world population at that time according to Genesis. All the directions he needed for the construction were supplied, and he had ample time to follow those instructions, but when the time was up, it wasn't Noah who closed the door. What is the lesson?

"Passwords"? I don't recall any "passwords" being used by any of God's servants at all. The disciples used Jesus' name to expel demons, but this is because those rebels already know their fate and fear their punishment. It will be meted out by Jesus when the final judgment on this world comes.

Matthew 8:29 relates that demons who possessed two men asked Jesus a question.....
"And look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God? Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?”

A related Greek term is used of “the jailers” at Matthew 18:34, so in this context, the “torment” would seem to refer to a restraining or a confining to “the abyss” mentioned in the parallel account at Luke 8:31. (see also Revelation 20:1-3) This confinement is not the end of their existence. God has not finished with them yet.

The big picture of the complete Bible explains everything....we don't need to follow rabbits down holes that lead nowhere.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
This is the interpretation of those who suppressed the texts at Nag Hammadi and their believers. It was more than a thousand years before regular folks could even get to read the texts of their Bible.

I guess this boils down to "who" you believe rather than just "what" you believe. Remember, there is a master deceiver in the world and 'confusion' is his middle name. There are many counterfeit religions in the world all sown by God's adversary. God alone can lead right-hearted ones to the truth. (John 6:44)

Much of what is "scripture" seems like it's from a bad sci-fi movie to those who don't believe it. Jesus as Word of God become flesh... only through this Word can you get to heaven.

Since God is an extraterrestrial being and so are the angelic forces that are at his command, science fiction has always been a favorite entertainment genre for many, young and old. Dr Who....Star Trek....Star Wars....people are fascinated by the idea of extraterrestrials and other worldly creatures. Why do you think that is so?

Words to pass through the lords of this earth and reach heaven. If either sounds like sci-fi, both do.

Not if you have a sound knowledge of scripture and God's purpose....and not if you understand the big picture that the Bible paints from Genesis to Revelation. Why are we here? What is the purpose of our being? Is this the life we want? Or is this the life we are forced to live? Is there a Creator and if so why is everything so "out of control"? Do we really have a say in how things turn out? We need answers to these questions. The Bible provides them.

I thought James was older than Jesus being a son of Joseph from a prior marriage.

The NT does not give the position of first-born to anyone but Jesus. His siblings are named and he had brothers. (Matthew 13:55-56) The fact that Jesus gave the care of his mother over to his spiritual brother, (John) rather than to his fleshly brother (James) indicates that he was firstborn and that her spiritual welfare was more important to him that her physical welfare. His siblings did not become believers until after his death.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
The big picture of the complete Bible explains everything....we don't need to follow rabbits down holes that lead nowhere.
But one doesn't know the holes lead to nowhere without exploring them. Who knows what god feels his followers should find important. Like the fact that Solomon had 40,000 horses, or was it 4,000 horses? Hmmm. . . . . . . . . .Or that the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz.

.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The NT does not give the position of first-born to anyone but Jesus. His siblings are named and he had brothers. (Matthew 13:55-56) The fact that Jesus gave the care of his mother over to his spiritual brother, (John) rather than to his fleshly brother (James) indicates that he was firstborn and that her spiritual welfare was more important to him that her physical welfare. His siblings did not become believers until after his death.

I don't see how that's possible as James always appears first in lists that indicates James as being the elder brother of Jesus.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I guess this boils down to "who" you believe rather than just "what" you believe. Remember, there is a master deceiver in the world and 'confusion' is his middle name. There are many counterfeit religions in the world all sown by God's adversary. God alone can lead right-hearted ones to the truth. (John 6:44)
Religions aren't counterfeit, they are just wrong on many things. Experience of God makes it clear that most who talk of God have no idea what they're talking about, which ever religion they happen to follow. That's the difference between knowing and believing.

Though there are those in most religions who do know, but to know who they are without having experienced God... not that easy.

Since God is an extraterrestrial being and so are the angelic forces that are at his command, science fiction has always been a favorite entertainment genre for many, young and old. Dr Who....Star Trek....Star Wars....people are fascinated by the idea of extraterrestrials and other worldly creatures. Why do you think that is so?
I would argue that God is extradimensional. He's not somewhere in our universe, basically present anywhere we are. Fiction and religion are deeply tied, though we can find that there is something to both that is useful to us.

Not if you have a sound knowledge of scripture and God's purpose....and not if you understand the big picture that the Bible paints from Genesis to Revelation. Why are we here? What is the purpose of our being? Is this the life we want? Or is this the life we are forced to live? Is there a Creator and if so why is everything so "out of control"? Do we really have a say in how things turn out? We need answers to these questions. The Bible provides them.
Scripture doesn't lead to change. We can see how many are mentally led by the Bible directly to somewhere where it's impossible for them to experience God.

The NT does not give the position of first-born to anyone but Jesus. His siblings are named and he had brothers. (Matthew 13:55-56) The fact that Jesus gave the care of his mother over to his spiritual brother, (John) rather than to his fleshly brother (James) indicates that he was firstborn and that her spiritual welfare was more important to him that her physical welfare. His siblings did not become believers until after his death.
Why do you expect the "whole story" to be found in the NT or that it's even correct? We either use the pieces that are useful or we fall in a love or hate relationship with the story of it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
But one doesn't know the holes lead to nowhere without exploring them.

They have been explored and found to lead nowhere. If you know what the Bible teaches as a whole scenario from Genesis to Revelation, then the rabbit holes become obvious. Red herrings....useless distractions.

Who knows what god feels his followers should find important.

He tells us very clearly what is important to him. We have a choice to obey him or ignore him. Both choices have a stated outcome. What we choose is up to us.

Like the fact that Solomon had 40,000 horses, or was it 4,000 horses? Hmmm. . . . . . . . . .Or that the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz..

Can you tell me why small scribal errors matter in the big picture?
Staring at a few dead pixels doesn't destroy the whole image. Nothing in the small details changes the Bible's overall message. The number of Solomon's horses or the names of Cain's grandsons don't change a thing. Seems a case of what Jesus accused the Pharisees of doing..."straining out gnats, but gulping down camels".
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
They have been explored and found to lead nowhere. If you know what the Bible teaches as a whole scenario from Genesis to Revelation, then the rabbit holes become obvious. Red herrings....useless distractions.
But this is a new, unexplored hole. It doesn't qualify as a "they." And to assume it does, would, IMO, amount to hubris grounded in insecurity and fear.

Can you tell me why small scribal errors matter in the big picture?
My point wasn't that the errors matter or not, that was just an incidental observation, ;) but that god felt knowing how many horses Solomon had, and the names of Eliphaz's sons is important. Assuming god is no dunderhead who wastes his words on inconsequentials, there must be some serious significance to these seemingly incidental bits of information. So, what's your reckoning? How do these facts fit into the salvation scenario?

As for the errors, they do point up the fact that the Bible can't be trusted to be 100% accurate, which places doubt on everything else in it.

.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
But this is a new, unexplored hole. It doesn't qualify as a "they." And to assume it does, would, IMO, amount to hubris grounded in insecurity and fear.

If it were noteworthy or important information, then it would be included in the word of God that everyone already has. If there were missing parts of the scriptures, then they are not inspired. There is nothing "missing" that we need to know. No "passwords" that will provide some magical incantation to save us from the demons. Where do people get this stuff? :facepalm:

My point wasn't that the errors matter or not, that was just an incidental observation, ;) but that god felt knowing how many horses Solomon had, and the names of Eliphaz's sons is important. Assuming god is no dunderhead who wastes his words on inconsequentials, there must be some serious significance to these seemingly incidental bits of information. So, what's your reckoning? How do these facts fit into the salvation scenario?

As for the errors, they do point up the fact that the Bible can't be trusted to be 100% accurate, which places doubt on everything else in it.

Oh please.....you think small scribal errors never happened? Every copy of the Bible was hand written. The scribes were very meticulous but small inconsequential errors have been found. None of which carry any weight in the Bible's overall message. You obviously need to created mistrust because of your own mistrust....like misery, it apparently likes company. :rolleyes:
 
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