Ok, do you feel this is a fairly standard Christian position?
I want to say that I understand your position, didn't know if you feel it's a common view among Christians.
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How in the world did Christians get Jesus from the Old Testament?
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
Ok, do you feel this is a fairly standard Christian position?
I want to say that I understand your position, didn't know if you feel it's a common view among Christians.
Other than the prophets declare in multiple places they won't understand it (Isaiah 29:9-14)... Moses said they're a stubborn people, who will eventually face the opposite direction (Deuteronomy 31:24-29).
In my opinion.
Ok, so you feel the OT is the Word of God, just the Jews misunderstood its meaning/intent?
As a collection of writings, some of the OT is inspired by the divine, and based on what it stipulates, everyone has been purposely lead to not have the correct meaning/intent; it isn't called the Great Deception for nothing.
Unfortunately some Jews wander around thinking they've already hit the jackpot, as they were the only people with the secret intent handed down by oral tradition; which blinds them to questioning if they could be wrong.... Which is also all prophesied.
In my opinion.
As a collection of writings, some of the OT is inspired by the divine, and based on what it stipulates, everyone has been purposely lead to not have the correct meaning/intent; it isn't called the Great Deception for nothing.
Unfortunately some Jews wander around thinking they've already hit the jackpot, as they were the only people with the secret intent handed down by oral tradition; which blinds them to questioning if they could be wrong.... Which is also all prophesied.
In my opinion.
Everyone is deceived except Jesus?
What's the point of this deception?
We're in a place between Heaven and Hell according to the Bible, with demons escaping from Hell and ruling the planet; thus we're all prone to delusional thinking in someway, otherwise we wouldn't be here... We'd be in Heaven already; as someone enlightened.
There are a few verses in Daniel 12, 'the wise will shine like the brightness of the dawn sky', and yet 'the wicked will not understand'.
It is a filter or a net, a way in which to sift the wheat from the chaff... Yet it is also a baited snare to catch out the ravenous animals, who are not wise enough to see it.
The Biblical promise of the Messianic Age, is an Age of Godliness, where everyone shall know God globally, and eventually there shall be no death... Thus the purpose of the deception is a refining of those deemed worthy to reign with God.
In my opinion.
We're in a place between Heaven and Hell according to the Bible, with demons escaping from Hell and ruling the planet; thus we're all prone to delusional thinking in someway, otherwise we wouldn't be here... We'd be in Heaven already; as someone enlightened.
There are a few verses in Daniel 12, 'the wise will shine like the brightness of the dawn sky', and yet 'the wicked will not understand'.
It is a filter or a net, a way in which to sift the wheat from the chaff... Yet it is also a baited snare to catch out the ravenous animals, who are not wise enough to see it.
The Biblical promise of the Messianic Age, is an Age of Godliness, where everyone shall know God globally, and eventually there shall be no death... Thus the purpose of the deception is a refining of those deemed worthy to reign with God.
In my opinion.
So the deception is like a test? To see if we can see through it?
Like an IQ test to determine one's ability to discern the truth?
In refining it seems to me that this would, considering the state of most mortals, take more than one lifetime for most at least.
Yes exactly that is what i've discovered within the Biblical texts, yet maybe not an IQ test...
It is more based on morality, concept of God being life and not death, righteous character, not being dismissive of details, and yet not being overly pedantic, etc...
Some people might automatically avoid the whole thing from not liking blood sacrifice concepts to begin with...
Then some might mock the whole thing, as they find it flawed; yet don't seek to understand if it has merit.
The Deception its self has many layers once you try to systematically dissect it... Can more or less explain it now, after years of researching it.
The Deception is like the Divine has orchestrated an adulterous act (Isaiah 28:21-22), and by the reactions it gets to see who is Real.
In Judaism they have Gilgul for reincarnation, and Yeshua plus his disciples believed in it; it wasn't until 533 AD the church decided to remove the concept (part of the Deception)...
There is scientific knowledge it happens, as children are born with past memories, and some religious people don't reincarnate naturally, as they think it doesn't exist....
Same with people's concept about Gods coming here, many people think it is all fiction now; when the Biblical text should help establish it is real (part of the Deception).
In my opinion.
Yes exactly that is what i've discovered within the Biblical texts, yet maybe not an IQ test...
It is more based on morality, concept of God being life and not death, righteous character, not being dismissive of details, and yet not being overly pedantic, etc...
Some people might automatically avoid the whole thing from not liking blood sacrifice concepts to begin with...
Then some might mock the whole thing, as they find it flawed; yet don't seek to understand if it has merit.
The Deception its self has many layers once you try to systematically dissect it... Can more or less explain it now, after years of researching it.
The Deception is like the Divine has orchestrated an adulterous act (Isaiah 28:21-22), and by the reactions it gets to see who is Real.
In Judaism they have Gilgul for reincarnation, and Yeshua plus his disciples believed in it; it wasn't until 533 AD the church decided to remove the concept (part of the Deception)...
There is scientific knowledge it happens, as children are born with past memories, and some religious people don't reincarnate naturally, as they think it doesn't exist....
Same with people's concept about Gods coming here, many people think it is all fiction now; when the Biblical text should help establish it is real (part of the Deception).
In my opinion.
Is one's knowledge of God then dependent one's ability to correctly decipher the Bible?
My understanding of the Bible is what it is. There is little consensus on what the correct interpretation is so how would one go about finding out if their interpretation is correct?
It is possible to show with reasoning how to analyze the texts; yet being able to literally feel God's instruction helps loads, and think God guides some to see visions as they read, whilst others listen elsewhere.
We should know God first, and read the Bible after, if we want to try missing a sinister snare.
If nothing in reality happens by chance, and the CPU(God Most High) has allowed the Biblical text, ask for what reason...
That helps in correctly deciphering it; being willing to question everything, and drop all of our own prior preconceptions.
By the way it interlinks over history, the prophets use keyword descriptors, that add up to show a clear concise case; if someone has got missing bits, it is possible to see how they add flaws into the overall equation.
In my opinion.
Last edited:
Akivah
Well-Known Member
LOL, Christianity does this all the time with your god-man.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Other than the prophets declare in multiple places they won't understand it (Isaiah 29:9-14)... Moses said they're a stubborn people, who will eventually face the opposite direction (Deuteronomy 31:24-29).
In my opinion.
I believe the heart has to be in the right place. One person decides to investigate with an open mind and another just finds fault with whatever is said.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the contrary is true. There is nothing imagined because it is there for all to see.
You're right, and the same applies with recognizing the differences between Paul, John and Simon the stone (petros) Vs Matthew, Mark, Luke (Yeshua).... It is all levels of discernment.
Proverbs 18:17 He who pleads his cause first seems right; until another comes and questions him.
Like the Bible almost seems cleverly put together, to see if a person decides to go the extra mile at understanding, whatever is said.
In my opinion.
Muffled
Jesus in me
You're right, and the same applies with recognizing the differences between Paul, John and Simon the stone (petros) Vs Matthew, Mark, Luke (Yeshua).... It is all levels of discernment.
Proverbs 18:17 He who pleads his cause first seems right; until another comes and questions him.
Like the Bible almost seems cleverly put together, to see if a person decides to go the extra mile at understanding, whatever is said.
In my opinion.
I believe some people go too far, speculating and coming up with their own story that isn't Biblical. On the other hand a certain amount of extrapolation is reasonable at times. Certainly the Trinity is an extrapolation.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
The question is?
How do you not get Jesus from the old testament.
The old testament is where the New testament is concealed.
The New testament is the old testament being Revealed.
How do you not get Jesus from the old testament.
The old testament is where the New testament is concealed.
The New testament is the old testament being Revealed.
DennisTate
Active Member
This is a good question but actually......
the answer is a rather long one because if Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had not been recognized by a group of Jewish disciples....... and if the Messianic Jewish movement had not taken off rapidly within the Roman province of Judaea....... then some of the teachings of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus - Issa would not have came to the attention of Messianic Gentiles..... .whose movement eventually evolved into modern Christianity......... that is obviously rather anti-Semitic and on a very different page than the original Messianic Jewish movement of the first century.... up until the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt where the final rift between Judaism and Messianic Judaism took place.........
If you actually want the answer to this you may wish to start here to see how the original Messianic Jewish movement divorced itself from the teachings of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus' identical twin brother Thomas.......... which played a huge role in how the Messianic Gentile movement became anti-Semitic.....
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Jesus is the Christ and Christ means Messiah and Messiah is the King of Jews. I think if you read the Jewish texts, you can find Messiah from there.