What Jeremiah really means is
It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct God's step
But, like I say, who cares?
It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct God's step
But, like I say, who cares?
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Human Governments
- Thread starter Vee
- Start date
There is more than enough proof that God's Kingdom is being taken over by men. I won't say what adjective might be right for them. So, Daniel 2:44 say the opposite of what you say it says. Is that OK? Hell knows. I am sure.
I suppose opposite might be two sides of the same coin. So, chill. Why don't you?
I do not hate human governments. I hate God's Kingdom in the hands of men. And, a few women, I suppose.
Matthew 24:15
Does anyone know what "to flee to the mountains" means?
Does anyone know what "to flee to the mountains" means?
It actually does belong to a man to direct his own steps. It is called Wisdom.
It does not belong to a man or even every man together to direct GOD.
It does not belong to a man or even every man together to direct GOD.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Sure, because the witnesses god and his "anointed" people on earth are powerless against satan.
Have you ever thought how this world would be if your anointed slave was governing the world? I mean they do such a fabulous job within your org, don't they?
I have asked the Jehovah's Witnesses about when the governing body who are all of the 144,000 go to Heaven. Who will they obey then? Have I got even a lame answer? No! I got nothing.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
That verse also applies to ourselves as individuals. While we may plan something, it may not be approved to succeed.
Proverbs 19:21 21 Many are the plans in the heart of a man, but the counsel of Jehovah is what will stand.
While we are told to take counsel with as many as possible about some things, God has a path set out for each depending on their choice of righteousness or otherwise. He also tells the Christian that this path is one of suffering.
human governments
Their failures are obvious. None are free from serious flaws. In the present Tax reform, there is nothing democratic about it. The only choice, if indeed choice it was, was the choice of the leader. The pain that has been caused to so many good ordinary people just because they immigrated recently - is beyond belief.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Could you point out those supposed verses? Also, if you believe this, what other institutions have these "invisible spirit forces" controlled? Maybe your own denomination?
So, we have no responsibility ourselves-- just have God and Jesus do all the work? That's not what the Sermon On the Mount says.
And many an Indian wanted to make Gandhi the governmental leader but he refused, but not because he thought government was intrinsically evil. He preferred to continue on with his teachings, much like Jesus did.
"Government" simply is an institutional set-up for making decisions, and if you're married you have government operating in your own household that determines how family decisions are to be made. The same is true with your own religious institution. There's nothing intrinsically immoral with that.
It makes no sense, imo, to interpret what Jesus said as being anti-government as it doesn't make any sense, particularly since God set up Laws found in the Tanakh as to how government leaders were and are to behave. Do you honestly believe anarchy would be better? Do you honestly believe that this is what Jesus wanted?
I gave you two passages, but there are more. Further, at 2 Corinthians 4:4, Satan is called "the god of this world." That's why it's going down, governments, institutions, and all. (Daniel 2:44; 1 John 2:15-17) Not necessarily all the people, though.
No, helping individuals and families is great. But anything else is futile. It's like trying to remodel the Titanic....why? The whole thing is going to sink. Nothing wrong with saving the individuals, though.
You're right.
Anarchy? Anti-government? Of course not! Again, the Scriptures highlight what we should do....be obedient, and follow their laws. (Romans 13). In fact, you won't find any JW's joining any group trying to overthrow any government, not even ones banning our activity. We're simply neutral. (John 17:14-16) But governments' authority has limits. -- Matthew 22:17-21; Acts of the Apostles 5:28-29.
You said "God set up Laws found in the Tanakh as to how government leaders were and are to behave." Yes, for the ancient Israelite nation. (How many other governments follow them?)
No matter what situation we face, in whichever jurisdiction we reside, we continue to preach about God's Kingdom and Jesus' role in it. -- Matthew 24:14.
Take care.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Thanks for your response above, and I'll get back with you tomorrow.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
What else is there?
I think he means helping the future be what God wills it to be. I do not agree, just so you know. I can help the future, but no on purpose. I don't care what you think.
I think the most popular answer is to sin.
What amazes me is that they expect Jesus to govern them, but HOW? They are not governed by him now. What will change so that should be governed by him later?
The best we can - for ourselves, the society we live in this planet that we depend on to survive.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ah, so I betcha ya thought I would forget and let you off the hook! Hehehehehehe!
Then, with the above, in order to be consistent you have to divorce yourself from all secular institutions, such as the economic ones (iow, send me your money since it leads to "corruption"). There is always going to be some "corruption" of one form or another everywhere, including your own denomination and even within your own family, so why should we avoid the political and not the others?
But individuals form groups, such as with your Kingdom Hall.
But you can't avoid anarchy if no one were to get involved with getting politically involved. If we want to have a say in our earthly destiny of our families, voting is the way to do it. Jesus never said nor implied that we just take what's coming and wait for death and judgement-- quite the contrary. The very early church was well admired for its activism in helping others, even putting their own lives in danger such as when they helped take care of those who had leprosy. It was one of the reasons why the church grew fairly rapidly.
And I certainly have no problem with that, but hopefully it doesn't just stop at "preaching" as Jesus demanded more than just words-- he demanded moral actions, especially to help those who may not be able to much help themselves.
And helping our "neighbor", viewed in the scriptural context, means not just helping just those in our own denomination or religion. Some churches are very good at doing that, but some aren't by only helping their own. If one believes were are all created by God, then we should be concerned with all, not just some.
But now I'm being "preachy".
Take care and have a great weekend.