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Noah and the Flood

F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
ok.....I'm getting it

and the territories were divided BEFORE the flood?

and the Tower came afterward....
so it was Nimrod's nation that divided the language?
Click to expand...

No Nimrod didn't have anything to do with the Languages,
When Nimrod built the tower of Babel, Then God caused the difference in Languages. Genesis 11:1--9.

The divided isles of the Gentiles happen after the flood, When the 4 sons of Javan went into the isles of the Gentiles, to divide them into 4 parts.
But they were all of one Language, The difference in Languages didn't happen until Nimrod built the tower of Babel.
Genesis 11:1--9.

But I can see that your starting to get the hang of it.
That the flood of Noah's had No effect on the isles of the Gentiles.

The isles of the Gentiles were already there, for the 4 sons of Javan to divide them into 4 parts.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Faithofchristian said:
No Nimrod didn't have anything to do with the Languages,
When Nimrod built the tower of Babel, Then God caused the difference in Languages. Genesis 11:1--9.

The divided isles of the Gentiles happen after the flood, When the 4 sons of Javan went into the isles of the Gentiles, to divide them into 4 parts.
But they were all of one Language, The difference in Languages didn't happen until Nimrod built the tower of Babel.
Genesis 11:1--9.

But I can see that your starting to get the hang of it.
That the flood of Noah's had No effect on the isles of the Gentiles.

The isles of the Gentiles were already there, for the 4 sons of Javan to divide them into 4 parts.
Click to expand...
hmmmmm....

if Nimrod built the Tower and God was offended......
then the division wrought from the 'babel' would be on Nimrod

and do you think only Noah's family and livestock survived?
(did we cover that?)
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
hmmmmm....

if Nimrod built the Tower and God was offended......
then the division wrought from the 'babel' would be on Nimrod

and do you think only Noah's family and livestock survived?
(did we cover that?)
Click to expand...

Yes, the division of Languages was because of Nimrod's building of the tower of Babel. For God look down and saw the people were all of one Language.
Genesis 11:1--9.


But at the time of Noahs and after the flood every one were all of one Language.
Only until Nimrod.Then all the different Languages happen.

Noah and his family and his sons and their wives were also on the ark and there other people on the ark also, male and female of the people of race. To keep the race's alive.

But we have to remember that their food source was all on the ark, but as far as they all knew the earth was destroyed by the flood. And in coming off the ark and seeing there was no plant life, no animals, for only those that were alive are those that are on the ark with them.

So how far do you suppose they would go, knowing their food and water source is all on the ark.

Let's say your on boat wreck you look around and for miles you see nothing, no trees no plant life of any kind, no animals How far would you go. Knowing all your food and water source is on this boat?

And then as they all planted and other plant life started to grow, and they started to have children and the animals started to multiply.
Then they started to venture out,
There Javan 4 sons, Elishah, Trashish, Kittim, Dodamin, found the isles of the Gentiles, Which was not effected by the flood.
 
S

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
At last all of those use limited magic. The flood story takes an endless series of magical events and then God has to go out of his way to hide the flood in a process that took generations if one wants to claim that it is true. The flood myth requires a dishonest version of God. Now Zeus was almost human in his attributes so him being dishonest at times only adds to his being a myth. Does God being dishonest in regards to the flood myth make him mythical?
Click to expand...

Look, if we're judging all the stories objectively, I don't think an out-of-character heel-turn by a character makes the series of magical events that result in a big flood somehow more narratively absurd than magical horse-on-god impregnation.

I mean lots of cultures had "big flood" and "worldwide flood" stories. It's not absurd so much as common and mundane. No one else has "The story of the time a horse impregnated a god", so the tale clearly wins on the absurdity scale, if absurdity is even a thing that can be objectively measured.
 
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S

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
Kelly of the Phoenix said:
Noah didn't have FB. How on earth did he tell the entire global population to get on a boat that clearly was only going to be taking his family and some animals?
Click to expand...

Since I was going off of the Quranic narrative that's not actually a concern, since the "Great Deluge" described in the Quranic version of the story never claims to be worldwide. Also in the Quran, he takes more people than just his family, as there are people who heed his warning and decide to come with him.

I have no interpretations of the Jewish/Christian version of the story, so I did not offer any interpretation of those tales.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I wrote: “Violence was the cause of it (the Flood).”

And Kelly replied:
Kelly of the Phoenix said:
Embryos committed violence?
Click to expand...

No, of course not.

But violence was everywhere....it was due to the giant Nephilim, the hybrid offspring of materialized angels and human women. Genesis 6 gives us the details.

This also explains why the Flood had to cover the whole Earth; otherwise, those rebellious angels simply could have taken their wives and family to another part of the Earth. Maybe some even did, before the deluge....it could be the reason we see evidence of ancient civilization in South America and other places. They were superhuman, so they’d have no difficulty in traveling to other areas, maybe even very quickly! We don’t know for sure — the Bible doesn’t say — but it does give a reason for the (apparently pre-Flood) evidence that’s been discovered in other parts of the Earth. And exploring new areas is something that fascinates intelligent creatures.

As for human embryos dying at the Flood: when people started observing Angels arriving out of nowhere on Earth, they should have known that these materialized superhumans coming to Earth wasn’t part of God’s purpose, that God would eventually take care of the violence that resulted. Since Noah also preached to them about the upcoming Flood, maybe those parents (of the kids) also should’ve gotten on the Ark?

Why didn’t they? Because Society apparently had gotten calloused to the situation. Although Genesis tells us violence was rampant in the Earth, Jesus doesn’t mention it....He only said that humans were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage.” Jesus said that they just “took no note...” — Matthew 24:36-39

Take care.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sanzbir said:
Look, if we're judging all the stories objectively, I don't think an out-of-character heel-turn by a character makes the series of magical events that result in a big flood somehow more narratively absurd than magical horse-on-god impregnation.

I mean lots of cultures had "big flood" and "worldwide flood" stories. It's not absurd so much as common and mundane. No one else has "The story of the time a horse impregnated a god", so the tale clearly wins on the absurdity scale, if absurdity is even a thing that can be objectively measured.
Click to expand...

I based my judgement on the amount of magic required, not about the uniqueness of the story. A unique story is merely unique. And lots of cultures have stories of gods becoming animals or even being animals so the story may not be as unique as you thought.
 
S

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
I based my judgement on the amount of magic required, not about the uniqueness of the story. A unique story is merely unique. And lots of cultures have stories of gods becoming animals or even being animals so the story may not be as unique as you thought.
Click to expand...

So basically you're saying your comment is completely and utterly devoid of the original context to which I replied. :p

Yeah... everyone around here seems to do that. :(

Anyways my post to which you chose to reply was disputing the claim that the "ludicrousness" of the story was somehow greater than most other myths. Not the "amount of magic" that the story would entail. That wasn't what was in question.

Which you'd probably know if you payed closer attention, but this is RF where people don't ever bother to read what they reply to. :p

Ludicrous is defined as "so foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing;" A proposed synonym is "ridiculous".

The amount of magic in a story could be a factor in calculating ludicrousness, but there are plenty of stories that don't have magic at all yet are completely ludicrous in nature (say the TV show Archer for example), which pretty much makes it clear there is a difference between the "amount of magic" in a story and how "ludicrous" a story is.

You're points are pretty much invalid compared against mine because you chose to talk about a quality of stories completely different rather than sticking to the quality of stories I was evaluating.

But really, the fault lies with me. I really need to stop expecting people on RF to remain on topic ever. :rolleyes:
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Hockeycowboy said:
I wrote: “Violence was the cause of it (the Flood).”

And Kelly replied:


No, of course not.

But violence was everywhere....it was due to the giant Nephilim, the hybrid offspring of materialized angels and human women. Genesis 6 gives us the details.

This also explains why the Flood had to cover the whole Earth; otherwise, those rebellious angels simply could have taken their wives and family to another part of the Earth. Maybe some even did, before the deluge....it could be the reason we see evidence of ancient civilization in South America and other places. They were superhuman, so they’d have no difficulty in traveling to other areas, maybe even very quickly! We don’t know for sure — the Bible doesn’t say — but it does give a reason for the (apparently pre-Flood) evidence that’s been discovered in other parts of the Earth. And exploring new areas is something that fascinates intelligent creatures.

As for human embryos dying at the Flood: when people started observing Angels arriving out of nowhere on Earth, they should have known that these materialized superhumans coming to Earth wasn’t part of God’s purpose, that God would eventually take care of the violence that resulted. Since Noah also preached to them about the upcoming Flood, maybe those parents (of the kids) also should’ve gotten on the Ark?

Why didn’t they? Because Society apparently had gotten calloused to the situation. Although Genesis tells us violence was rampant in the Earth, Jesus doesn’t mention it....He only said that humans were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage.” Jesus said that they just “took no note...” — Matthew 24:36-39

Take care.
Click to expand...
Hockeycowboy said:
I wrote: “Violence was the cause of it (the Flood).”

And Kelly replied:


No, of course not.

But violence was everywhere....it was due to the giant Nephilim, the hybrid offspring of materialized angels and human women. Genesis 6 gives us the details.

This also explains why the Flood had to cover the whole Earth; otherwise, those rebellious angels simply could have taken their wives and family to another part of the Earth. Maybe some even did, before the deluge....it could be the reason we see evidence of ancient civilization in South America and other places. They were superhuman, so they’d have no difficulty in traveling to other areas, maybe even very quickly! We don’t know for sure — the Bible doesn’t say — but it does give a reason for the (apparently pre-Flood) evidence that’s been discovered in other parts of the Earth. And exploring new areas is something that fascinates intelligent creatures.

As for human embryos dying at the Flood: when people started observing Angels arriving out of nowhere on Earth, they should have known that these materialized superhumans coming to Earth wasn’t part of God’s purpose, that God would eventually take care of the violence that resulted. Since Noah also preached to them about the upcoming Flood, maybe those parents (of the kids) also should’ve gotten on the Ark?

Why didn’t they? Because Society apparently had gotten calloused to the situation. Although Genesis tells us violence was rampant in the Earth, Jesus doesn’t mention it....He only said that humans were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage.” Jesus said that they just “took no note...” — Matthew 24:36-39

Take care.
Click to expand...

Hockeycowboy said:
I wrote: “Violence was the cause of it (the Flood).”

And Kelly replied:


No, of course not.

But violence was everywhere....it was due to the giant Nephilim, the hybrid offspring of materialized angels and human women. Genesis 6 gives us the details.

This also explains why the Flood had to cover the whole Earth; otherwise, those rebellious angels simply could have taken their wives and family to another part of the Earth. Maybe some even did, before the deluge....it could be the reason we see evidence of ancient civilization in South America and other places. They were superhuman, so they’d have no difficulty in traveling to other areas, maybe even very quickly! We don’t know for sure — the Bible doesn’t say — but it does give a reason for the (apparently pre-Flood) evidence that’s been discovered in other parts of the Earth. And exploring new areas is something that fascinates intelligent creatures.

As for human embryos dying at the Flood: when people started observing Angels arriving out of nowhere on Earth, they should have known that these materialized superhumans coming to Earth wasn’t part of God’s purpose, that God would eventually take care of the violence that resulted. Since Noah also preached to them about the upcoming Flood, maybe those parents (of the kids) also should’ve gotten on the Ark?

Why didn’t they? Because Society apparently had gotten calloused to the situation. Although Genesis tells us violence was rampant in the Earth, Jesus doesn’t mention it....He only said that humans were “eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage.” Jesus said that they just “took no note...” — Matthew 24:36-39

Take care.
Click to expand...

As to how do you get the flood of Noah's as covering the whole earth.

How do you explain in Genesis 10:4,5.
Where as Javan had 4 sons -->Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, Dodamin.
That by these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands.

If the flood of Noah's covered the whole earth, as you say. Then where did the Gentiles come from?
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Kemosloby said:
I'm sure they put the B team on proving the flood wrong, and the A team on improving the electric car...They can't con me into believing the electric car is better, it obvious so they dont. But with less tangible theories the scientific method tells them they won't get caught in their BS, so they keep on with it.
Click to expand...

There sits Kemosloby in his climate controlled home (made possible by science), writing on a computing device (made possible by science), fully vaccinated against deadly diseases that used to kill millions (made possible by science), pretending like the scientific method is nothing but a con job. I don't think you can get any more willfully ignorant than that. If all the people who actually understand the scientific method were to disappear tomorrow, Kemosloby and those like him would die out within a month.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
QuestioningMind said:
There sits Kemosloby in his climate controlled home (made possible by science), writing on a computing device (made possible by science), fully vaccinated against deadly diseases that used to kill millions (made possible by science), pretending like the scientific method is nothing but a con job. I don't think you can get any more willfully ignorant than that. If all the people who actually understand the scientific method were to disappear tomorrow, Kemosloby and those like him would die out within a month.
Click to expand...
approximately...7billion people will die within my lifetime

half of them are gone already

science cannot stop it
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
QuestioningMind said:
Were you under the silly impression that science somehow should be able to stop people from ever dying?
Click to expand...
science has several things going on.....trying to stay the sting of death

but unlike most people who think we lost our immortality because of an event.......in a garden

I do not believe Man was meant to live forever....in body

and I do believe there was some kind of flood event
too many details for the story to have no foundation

names have been named
 
Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
science has several things going on.....trying to stay the sting of death

but unlike most people who think we lost our immortality because of an event.......in a garden

I do not believe Man was meant to live forever....in body

and I do believe there was some kind of flood event
too many details for the story to have no foundation

names have been named
Click to expand...

Uh... okay.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Thief said:
and this planet can sustain only 9billion.....
heard a scientist say so on a 'doomsday documentary'
Click to expand...
One scientific think-tank analysis has it at 3 million, which means we're already more that twice over what the Earth can handle without us destroying much of it.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
metis said:
One scientific think-tank analysis has it at 3 million, which means we're already more that twice over what the Earth can handle without us destroying much of it.
Click to expand...
the fellow I saw , was noting the fresh water supply and other needed chemistry
the quantities are insufficient to go further than 9billion
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thief said:
please take note....we are not discussing science
for this thread.....

your reaction to the story

I care not if you believe it happened

what does it mean to you?
Click to expand...
Scientifically it happened.. This is a put to rest issue.
Missoula Floods - Wikipedia

NOW interpretive we see how interpretive narrative between people scientific and religious works in this documentary. If you step into the documentary and try and explain Uh things here are not correct. They turn and go "word salad Heratic in unision We then have a scientific religious agreement

 
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Hildeburh

Hildeburh

Active Member
sunrise123 said:
Since we're not talking about science here, the Bible picked up the story from earlier sources.
Click to expand...

I agree, the original flood myth is Sumerian found in the Epic of Gilgamesh and Noah is a biblical retelling of the Sumerian Utnapishtim, who was warned by the gods of the imminent flood and subsequently builds a boat fills it with grain, animals and his kin.

Mesopotamia was situated between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, which flooded seasonally. Until flood mitigation techniques where employed by the Sumerians, they were at the mercy of seasonal flooding. Who knows perhaps this myth represents a particularly bad seasonal flood.
 
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