Is this World of Desires to Enjoy or Hate?

wizanda said:

Within many religious traditions, this realm we exist within is seen as a place of desires (Maya)... Yet then many religions tell us this is to make us suffer... Which doesn't seem to make sense of the design plan.

Our brains produce chemicals that make us seek out fulfillment of desires, everything seems to encourage this activity, not to prevent it.

Yet the religious tell us that being sexually inactive is a way to be godly, is it? So God made us to be sexually frustrated or God made us to enjoy making love, and to seek out as much as possible?

We get a rush of energy when we gamble; why make it such a high, if you didn't want people doing it.

We're designed to find others sexually attractive naked, and yet some religions think that God designed us to be covered up, and to refrain from looking at all costs.

There are tons of natural foods, that cause us to get high, with the brain already being programmed to produce responses; not through intoxication as the religious like to impose, yet by integrated biological design.... So God literally designed us to get high.

So as we look at each individual religion, and what they presume we're not meant to be doing, are they all just prudish people, who all just think diametrically opposed in someway to the creation.

Can anyone give any logical reasons why the things that God created us to enjoy, are seen as sinful by religions?

Do you think the religious ideologies imposed by man, might be a way to see who really doesn't want to exist in the reality God created for us to take pleasure in, and explore all of our desires?

Which is the quickest way to get over a life long desire, to categorically deny yourself from thinking about it or to experience it, so it no longer suffices as a desire?

Personally think we're here to learn Oneness, so which is the best way to achieve that: us all celebrating in enjoying life together in the way it was designed or us all to fight over which things we shouldn't be doing, as they're deemed sinful by the religions?

In my opinion.

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It's ok to have fun, within reason. I'll use my life as an example.

Occasionally, I like to pour a whiskey or 3 or 5 or 6 whatevs. Get a good Buzz going, laugh and have a good time. Then go to bed, wake up, pay my bills, go to work etc. I can have a good time and still function as a contributing member of society. But I have a buddy who likes to drink also. He can't stop at a few drinks, and has been known to drink 2 bottles of bourbon all by himself in a single night. He also laughs and had a good time, but then the cops are called fights break out, best case scenario he is roughed up a little, hung over the next day misses a day of work, worst case he is in jail for a night.

Moral of the story is it's ok to let loose and enjoy life. But you have to be responsible and know when it's time to call it a night.

wizanda said:

Within many religious traditions, this realm we exist within is seen as a place of desires (Maya)...

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Maya is not 'desire'. It is illusion (or delusion). Please allow me to quote the following.

The Concept of Maya | Vedanta Society of Southern California
......Our real nature is divine, why then are we so appallingly unaware of it?

The answer to this question lies in the concept of maya, or ignorance. Maya is the veil that covers our real nature and the real nature of the world around us. Maya is fundamentally inscrutable: we don’t know why it exists and we don’t know when it began. What we do know is that, like any form of ignorance, maya ceases to exist at the dawn of knowledge, the knowledge of our own divine nature.

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atanu said:

Maya is not 'desire'. It is illusion (or delusion). Please allow me to quote the following.

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Actually I half agree with clarification.

First point, Maya is not any thing. I disagree with the following statement in your citation; ". . . we don’t know why it exists and we don’t know when it began. What we do know is that, like any form of ignorance, Maya ceases to exist."

I do not believe Maya began to exist, exists, ceases to exist.

Second, I believe Maya is an illusion manifestation of the ego-self. It is more like the shadow of the ego-self.

shunyadragon said:

Actually I half agree with clarification.

First point, Maya is not any thing. ..

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Well. No one says that mAyA is a thing.

wizanda said:

Within many religious traditions, this realm we exist within is seen as a place of desires (Maya)... Yet then many religions tell us this is to make us suffer... Which doesn't seem to make sense of the design plan.

Our brains produce chemicals that make us seek out fulfillment of desires, everything seems to encourage this activity, not to prevent it.

Yet the religious tell us that being sexually inactive is a way to be godly, is it? So God made us to be sexually frustrated or God made us to enjoy making love, and to seek out as much as possible?

We get a rush of energy when we gamble; why make it such a high, if you didn't want people doing it.

We're designed to find others sexually attractive naked, and yet some religions think that God designed us to be covered up, and to refrain from looking at all costs.

There are tons of natural foods, that cause us to get high, with the brain already being programmed to produce responses; not through intoxication as the religious like to impose, yet by integrated biological design.... So God literally designed us to get high.

So as we look at each individual religion, and what they presume we're not meant to be doing, are they all just prudish people, who all just think diametrically opposed in someway to the creation.

Can anyone give any logical reasons why the things that God created us to enjoy, are seen as sinful by religions?

Do you think the religious ideologies imposed by man, might be a way to see who really doesn't want to exist in the reality God created for us to take pleasure in, and explore all of our desires?

Which is the quickest way to get over a life long desire, to categorically deny yourself from thinking about it or to experience it, so it no longer suffices as a desire?

Personally think we're here to learn Oneness, so which is the best way to achieve that: us all celebrating in enjoying life together in the way it was designed or us all to fight over which things we shouldn't be doing, as they're deemed sinful by the religions?

In my opinion.

Click to expand...

Neither... desires are neutral... the problem is what you set them on that makes them good or not

Salvation results in a realignment of desires and in the new birth one 'loves light and hates darkness' rather than other way round (see John 3:16-18 on that)

atanu said:

Well. No one says that mAyA is a thing.

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OK! You agree it did not begin to exist, exists, nor cease to exist.

shunyadragon said:

OK! You agree it did not begin to exist, exists, nor cease to exist.

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'It' that was used to qualify 'mAyA' is just a language requirement. It is approximately like "I went through agonising pain. It disrupted my life". Here 'pain' is not a thing.

It has already been said that mAyA is ignorance. How and when the ignorance arises for a particular mind is indeterminable. But knowledge of non dual brahman destroys the illusion.

whirlingmerc said:

Salvation results in a realignment of desires and in the new birth one 'loves light and hates darkness' rather than other way round (see John 3:16-18 on that)

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In Hinduism and Buddhism, it is not like that. The enlightened see light and darkness as same, conditions.

In each person there is a seat of cares, loves, hates, and ambivalences, and this seat is where a person becomes who they are; it is the heart.

Each of us is a heart, mind, and will. As humans we create meanings, and then decide if we are to become those meanings that we create. Through the heart we decide our very own identity, be it good or evil, or ignorant, or wise.

From the heart you choose to be springs forth your desires. One pitfall is the constant barrage of sensory input, that stirs the imagination, and the lack of time we have in our lives to process and think through our experiences. The busy hectic pace of life, and the dangers of the unknown, and the perils caused by other humans forces us all to either get wiser and be stronger, or fall prey to lousy situations.

It is important to recognize our inner freedoms, and abilities to choose our experiences wisely, so as not to lose one's self. And also, to make time in one's life to prepare for anything, and everything, in heart, in mind, in strength of will. So that no matter what happens, we can have peace with ourselves, in life and in death.

I firmly believe there is a truth, and if found and truly loved in the heart great freedom comes with it. And the soul is at peace with power. And vice will not have any power where virtue is chosen.

Of course heart choices are different than mental choices. With heart choices, we start down a path, and we ask ourselves, is this really me, or am I fooling myself! heart choices, whether by fall, or by conscientiousness are very, very consequential if the wrong path is chosen, and very liberating and peaceful if rightly chosen.

Nevertheless the struggle is very, very important, if that happens. And when the dust settles , I hope people land on what is true blue good, and that's the am chosen.

What I know, is that choosing evil creates lack in the self and choosing good creates peaceful sufficiency. The fall of heart is a choice made. Existence is what you make of yourself to your self.

atanu said:

Maya is not 'desire'. It is illusion (or delusion).

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Thank you, was aware Maya is delusion; yet my understanding is the Matrix we exist within is the Maya...

When we attain Moksha we leave this physical realm of desires, and become pure consciousness again with Brahman.

Whilst in the Matrix we can acknowledge that Brahman is the CPU, and be aware that all of this is code; thus our desires are only an illusion in a coded reality.

Maya is literally a 3D graphics program within the Matrix, so it is a thing; it is just perception that makes people see code as something unreal.

In my opinion.

whirlingmerc said:

desires are neutral

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The 10 commandment is not to desire (and only what belongs to another according to Moses)...

My understanding from my NDE, is the commandments are steps/dimensions that we must over come to ascend to Heaven.

whirlingmerc said:

Salvation results in a realignment of desires

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We still have the same desires, people just try to suppress them, and having not lived them in this life, have to return here in the next life, to live their desires they still didn't accomplish.

In my opinion.

wizanda said:

The 10 commandment is not to desire (and only what belongs to another according to Moses)...

My understanding from my NDE, is the commandments are steps/dimensions that we must over come to ascend to Heaven.

We still have the same desires, people just try to suppress them, and having not lived them in this life, have to return here in the next life, to live their desires they still didn't accomplish.

In my opinion.

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If we look at the commandments as steps we might ask the question posed in Psalm 15, who can ascend the mountain of the Lord? and really only Jesus or those 'in Jesus' and I think the way the psalms unfold support that

Pleasures? At God's right hand are pleasures forever... it reminds me of a chapter in proverbs that starts and ends don't each too much honey else you might get sick There are no 'commandments against too much pleasures and in God they resonate best, in the world there are pleasures but too much worldly pleasure can leave a hangover on the other hand 'delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart'




The Right Hand of God in the Psalms

But I think the commandment have many purposes.... showing the character of God... showing us we are needy broken sinners.... the spirit of the law shows us how to live, respecting God, parents, life, property, marriage and others

whirlingmerc said:

and really only Jesus or those 'in Jesus'

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Unfortunately see this as still 'desiring the mind of Christ'; which leads to us not ascending up God's holy mountain for numerous reasons.

whirlingmerc said:

delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart'

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Thank you for Psalms 37:4; David lived his desires, and the Lord said 'a man of my own heart'...

So what happened with the religious since then; especially when many want David's kingdom back, yet are so overzealously religious, they'd struggle to cope in Paradise on earth.

In my opinion.

wizanda said:

Within many religious traditions, this realm we exist within is seen as a place of desires (Maya)... Yet then many religions tell us this is to make us suffer... Which doesn't seem to make sense of the design plan.

Our brains produce chemicals that make us seek out fulfillment of desires, everything seems to encourage this activity, not to prevent it.

Yet the religious tell us that being sexually inactive is a way to be godly, is it? So God made us to be sexually frustrated or God made us to enjoy making love, and to seek out as much as possible?

We get a rush of energy when we gamble; why make it such a high, if you didn't want people doing it.

We're designed to find others sexually attractive naked, and yet some religions think that God designed us to be covered up, and to refrain from looking at all costs.

There are tons of natural foods, that cause us to get high, with the brain already being programmed to produce responses; not through intoxication as the religious like to impose, yet by integrated biological design.... So God literally designed us to get high.

So as we look at each individual religion, and what they presume we're not meant to be doing, are they all just prudish people, who all just think diametrically opposed in someway to the creation.

Can anyone give any logical reasons why the things that God created us to enjoy, are seen as sinful by religions?

Do you think the religious ideologies imposed by man, might be a way to see who really doesn't want to exist in the reality God created for us to take pleasure in, and explore all of our desires?

Which is the quickest way to get over a life long desire, to categorically deny yourself from thinking about it or to experience it, so it no longer suffices as a desire?

Personally think we're here to learn Oneness, so which is the best way to achieve that: us all celebrating in enjoying life together in the way it was designed or us all to fight over which things we shouldn't be doing, as they're deemed sinful by the religions?

In my opinion.

Click to expand...

As far as desires and happiness... there is a secret to happiness and it isn't what people usually think of. The happy guy is the guy who's sins are forgiven

Psalm 32---> https://www.slideshare.net/secret/g0XPcXIM7JBrdF

shunyadragon said:

I have found no evidence for the claim of a virtual reality. The reality of our existence with pain, pleasure, love, hate, compassion, and whatever are real experiences in a real world, regardless of whether it is an illusion, or real. I do not get involved heavily in the hypothetical based on an agenda and not the evidence.



I am not sure how it works out either, and I believe no one really knows, but I deal with reality in the context of how it is and not how I think it should be.

Christians unfortunately justify fallible human frailty and faults by believing God Created humans without faults and sin, and blame the seduction of Adam and Eve by Satan for the whole history of Fallen humanity.



The natural fallibility of being human. The objective evidence is that our physical existence is in harmony with Oneness of Nature regardless of whether God or God(s) exist or not. That is an excellent starting point.



This true of addiction, and other negative extremes of human behavior.

Yet surely this is back to extreme ways, and the type of thinking that created the religious laws in the first place.



Like why can't we be Buddhist who accept the Dharma, live a life of Oneness (none-hedonistic), experience all of our desires, and reach Nirvana as we tried it all, and then realized what we want at the end of it is to be One with the Universal mind, that creates all this enjoyment for others.... I.e none attachment to self; as we've experienced the self in the Maya, and realized its flaws.

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My view of Buddha's teachings of renouncing attachment is the Middle Way, and not any sort of extreme detachment such as asceticism or rejection of whatever form a human judgmental choices.



Ok



God made us in the greater context of the environment we are in, and it really is not a question of being with and without clothing in our every day experience.



You remain a fallible limited human regardless of what you claim to be otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Suny you remind me of Chesterton a lot. That's a big compliment. then again he was a very large man!!!!

I have always been curious about neurology across spectrum in religion. When I say neurology, it can suddenly become a rather strange biased discussion very quickly. I tend to tread lightly for good reasons. I stumbled upon George Lakoffs philosophy of the flesh, picked it up and read the whole thing in like 2 days. It read as easily as reading a Harry Potter book. Embodied spirituality does not seem to be easily understood.

Yes, my post is not purely linear, structurally,and that's intentional. It's topical, it goes, here, then over there, and back over there with intent. As a very harsh evolutionist, thoughts evolve in that fashion, we structuralize them into nice neat properly "SPELT" academic packages .We create Proper "SPELLS" or it's not correct. I have mangled posts (To some, this is one) just to test it out. I get the default "word Salad" reply. It's a Pavlovian response to me. I wave, the dog barks in conditioned response. It just reacts with zero thought.

How I write here is horrible office communications in construction that is a fact. I write in a totally different style there with intent as much as I break from that style of writing here. The evidence of human thinking as not being pure linear, literally, is proved out in musicians discussions on how music develops. yet when we write suddenly magical world of facts happens , it's linear, discreet , with websters as the referee. I find this fabric of this thing we do as writing a curiosity. my neurology is synesthesisia and I am left handed to boot. A fact, A rock falls independent of the human mind. A fact, most people believe the human mind is determining the rocks fall-ability. It's stated in science we live in a mathematical reality with laws governing it, as much as in religion intellect on high. It, seems either way, we have the university professor on top regardless.

the human nature is a twosided coin. anyone can flip from a good desire, to a bad habit, or worse. religion dictates us to be cautious. an example, a man wants to have one night stands,what are the risks he get a disease sexually transmited?

syo said:

religion dictates us to be cautious.

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Cautious is an understatement... In the Islamic Hadiths music is Haram, as it might tempt us with desires...

Some things shouldn't really be classified religious, like marriage, as it is a legal bond between two people, that existed in all cultures before holy books...

So religion hasn't dictated a better understanding of sexual relationships through shared knowledge; it has tried to scare, chastise, and even discommunicate for the sake of breaking its holy vows.

It is like how the previous Pope rejected condoms, so it encouraged the spread of Aids in Africa.

In my opinion.

wizanda said:

Within many religious traditions, this realm we exist within is seen as a place of desires (Maya)... Yet then many religions tell us this is to make us suffer... Which doesn't seem to make sense of the design plan.

Our brains produce chemicals that make us seek out fulfillment of desires, everything seems to encourage this activity, not to prevent it.

Yet the religious tell us that being sexually inactive is a way to be godly, is it? So God made us to be sexually frustrated or God made us to enjoy making love, and to seek out as much as possible?

We get a rush of energy when we gamble; why make it such a high, if you didn't want people doing it.

We're designed to find others sexually attractive naked, and yet some religions think that God designed us to be covered up, and to refrain from looking at all costs.

There are tons of natural foods, that cause us to get high, with the brain already being programmed to produce responses; not through intoxication as the religious like to impose, yet by integrated biological design.... So God literally designed us to get high.

So as we look at each individual religion, and what they presume we're not meant to be doing, are they all just prudish people, who all just think diametrically opposed in someway to the creation.

Can anyone give any logical reasons why the things that God created us to enjoy, are seen as sinful by religions?

Do you think the religious ideologies imposed by man, might be a way to see who really doesn't want to exist in the reality God created for us to take pleasure in, and explore all of our desires?

Which is the quickest way to get over a life long desire, to categorically deny yourself from thinking about it or to experience it, so it no longer suffices as a desire?

Personally think we're here to learn Oneness, so which is the best way to achieve that: us all celebrating in enjoying life together in the way it was designed or us all to fight over which things we shouldn't be doing, as they're deemed sinful by the religions?

In my opinion.

Click to expand...

So if someone talks about tasting an orange as some professed expert, who has sworn from tasting the orange, wouldn't you find that a tiny bit strange? I mean not even a tiny bit strange just plan wierd. So we have a wierd, what else might this wierd be wierd about?

It's interesting, we can on the one hand at times go wow that's wierd, but we allow the wierd to be an expert in other areas. Maybe wierdoness is in all aspects of their thinking not just about sex. But because they say things in such a way we automatically align with we ignore it. Like "yep they really know that topic no wierdoness there" because it aligns with my thinking in agreement or disagreement!!!! In fact we sometimes, no, often times, allow someone to be both expert and we disagree. In fact their expertness helps to affirm my disagreement as being valid!!!

Wierd if understood. Word salad in the previous section if not understood. Which points to a problem, not with me, but the reader. I know what I am writing about the reader has no clue. Which then leads to kierkegaard!!!

Well, as a Nag Hammadi reader, I have a point of view to share. Maybe we (mankind) were not created by God (the Father, the One, the Ineffable), but by gods.''Gods''. They`ve attempted to take God`s Light, and, for some reason, failed, being punished and ''traping'' us (sacred spirits) in a Fleshy body, so we can't try to reach the Truth, as we are so busy with the mortal world and so in love with our desires and pleasures. "The soul doesn't want anything'', but the body does. In this way, we are in a fight with our ''human'' side, like Peter taught us in his letters. Jesus came to definitely open our eyes and free us from the ignorance about ourselves.
''Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful DESIRES, which wage WAR against your SOUL.''

Maybe this is metaphoric? I don't know, I bear no universal truth with me.
Thanks for your attention.

David T said:

what else might this wierd be wierd about?

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It is weird how someone couldn't want to experience the orange for them self in the first place; yet what is weirder, is the amount of issues in the press, about certain groups doing things with Satsumas, Clementines, and other under aged looking oranges.

Then there are those who only want oranges unpeeled for them self in private, and have taken half pealed oranges in public without permission, as they felt it was revealing.

Think it has made just having orange trees everywhere, and us all just enjoying making juice together, become something naughty, when it is completely natural.

In my opinion.