A challenge to all Christians

Brickjectivity · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
God did not tell them what the tree of life was for. It is only after they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and because it made them like God, God was resentful and decided to deny them access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

It doesn't say God is resentful about it, but that interpolation could have a basis considering history. The story clashes with the culture of other local nations where the gods determine right and wrong, because in this story people have obtained that power. It undermines the moral authority of gods and is a rebellious story, a version of Prometheus about stealing morality instead of technology. There is a time when Genesis says the LORD is resentful in Genesis 9, but its a different story. In that case the resentment is because of violence. The LORD resents violence. Also its possible that the LORD does not resent them eating the fruit, because why else would it be in the garden. Someone was supposed to eat it eventually, at least a giraffe or goat. They'll eat anything.

Harikrish said:
God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

What matters to me is that they eat and become equal to any gods (who lie all the time by the way), and Genesis 3 is seditious material. Doubtless it angers the priests of many gods and the nobility. The kings of their day aspire to be considered gods, but this fruit undermines the divine right of kings which is a good thing not a bad thing.

Harikrish said:
So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Ok, so you are thinking that mortality is an evil thing? Acceptance of mortality is often considered a mark of maturity, because a child becomes an adult and realizes the future lies with another generation. Its natural to wonder whether to entrust children with power or to give them gods that will guarantee they live a particular way. I think this story we call Genesis says to trust them and teach them to do the same for the next lot.

Harikrish said:
So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

There is a serpent in the garden and both kinds of fruit. Somebody puts them there. Its not an accident.

Harikrish said:
Thank you for responding to my OP.

Thanks for your gracious reply, too. I hope I am not too brusque. I try to be pleasant.

blü 2 · Nov 21, 2017

Kemosloby said:
There is no reason to believe they had not been eating from the tree of life.

Except that God kicked them out of the Garden for the explicit and sole purpose of stopping them from doing so.

Kemosloby · Nov 21, 2017

blü 2 said:
Except that God kicked them out of the Garden for the explicit and sole purpose of stopping them from doing so.

Right, so that they would die, just like he told them they would if they ate from the tree of knowledge. 930 years later Adam died.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

e.r.m. said:
Original sin was never a Biblical teaching.

"Original sin, also called ancestral sin, is the Christian doctrine of humanity's state of sin resulting from the fall of man, stemming from Adam and Eve's rebellion in Eden, namely the sin of disobedience in consuming from the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

Kenny · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

Actually, the understanding here is wrong. The word "die" in the original Hebrew is plural and not singular. The definition of "death" isn't just "we cease to live" nor is it necessarily instant in all the process (thought some is)

Man is a three part being. His spirit was instantly separated from the Spirit of God. This part was instant and is the first death. It is spirit first (that which we cannot see) and then physical (that what we can see), much like the fig tree that Jesus cursed.

It then began to affect his soul by changing the way he thought. He now lied. This is an ongoing process and is a process of death.

It finally manifested in the natural where he physically died.

Thus, God did not lie for the death was instant (spiritually) and culminated with physical.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

DavidFirth said:
Christians reject all such extra Biblical crap as this.

Most Christians are scripturally ignorant. That is why there are 33,000 denominations of Christians. There isn't any christian that is an authority on scriptures that could help unify the fractured Christian body.

But that is not an excuse to skip the first few chapters of Genesis. How can Christian afford to get stumped by the first few chapters in Genesis?

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

Kemosloby said:
Quote me a verse that says they didn't. They were free to eat from every tree except the tree of knowledge. There is no reason to believe they had not been eating from the tree of life.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

The verse tells us God was determined Adam must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. This tells us Adam had now eaten from the first tree (tree of knowledge), he must be stopped from also eating from the second tree (the tree of life) which would let him live forever. If Adam had already eaten from the second tree then it would have been too late for God to stop him from living forever.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

KenS said:
Actually, the understanding here is wrong. The word "die" in the original Hebrew is plural and not singular. The definition of "death" isn't just "we cease to live" nor is it necessarily instant in all the process (thought some is)

Man is a three part being. His spirit was instantly separated from the Spirit of God. This part was instant and is the first death. It is spirit first (that which we cannot see) and then physical (that what we can see), much like the fig tree that Jesus cursed.

It then began to affect his soul by changing the way he thought. He now lied. This is an ongoing process and is a process of death.

It finally manifested in the natural where he physically died.

Thus, God did not lie for the death was instant (spiritually) and culminated with physical.

God confirmed what the serpent had told Eve, their eyes would be opened and they would become like God. Becoming like God is hardly spiritual death.
Genesis 3:4 you will certainly not die. 5 For God knows when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will become like God.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead) after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

URAVIP2ME said:
They did die after eating. True they did Not die within that 24-hour day, but they died within that 1,000-year day.
In other words, No one could live past 1,000 years.
I find Adam and Methuselah died before reaching age 1,000. Notice 950 years for father Adam as per Genesis 5:5.
Because we are innocent of what Adam and Eve did is why Jesus will come and undo all the damage that Adam and Satan brought upon us. This is to take place during Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.

A day in Genesis is normal 24 hour day. A day is divided into light and darkness. There is the light (day time) and the darkness (night). The concept of a day being like a 1000 years was alluded by Peter who was using the example from Psalms.we are talking about Genesis.

"2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’
The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day isa thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.
The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.
The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:
‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).
The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.
In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm ‫יום ‬, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’."

Kemosloby · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

The verse tells us God was determined Adam must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. This tells us Adam had now eaten from the first tree (tree of knowledge), he must be stopped from also eating from the second tree (the tree of life) which would let him live forever. If Adam had already eaten from the second tree then it would have been too late for God to stop him from living forever.

That's sort of dense that you cling to the opinion as fact. Adam and Eve had been eating freely from the tree of life, since it was never forbidden for them to do. After they ate the forbidden fruit God kicked them out of the garden of Eden, they no longer had access to the tree of life and so they died 930 some years later. In keeping with what God had said, in the day that you eat of it you will surely die.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

URAVIP2ME said:
My understanding of the word 'original ' would mean: first.
The first sin I find in Scripture was a lie told by Satan at Genesis 3:4 that Adam and Eve would Not die.
So, original sin for Satan was that he became the father ( or life giver ) to the lie - John 8:44.
Original or first sin for Adam and Eve was the crime of breaking God's 'law of the land' to Not eat from God's tree.
So, I don't understand how ' original ' or ' first ' sin is Not a Bible teaching because there was No sin here on Earth before Satan and Adam and Eve sinned. They started sin by being the first to originate sin. Adam and Eve by breaking God's do-not-touch from the forbidden tree law.

The original sin was God lying to Adam that he would die in/on the day he ate the fruit.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Faithofchristian · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
Harikrish has presented scriptural verses that challenge the Christian teachings of original sin and how death came into the world. The scriptures give us a different reading of the account in Genesis that led to the banishment of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden and their fall from grace. God's own words incriminate Him.
First the scriptural evidence.

The question is, When did and where did the original sin happen?
The next question is, Who is death, what is his name?

We know God created 2 special trees in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:9 The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

There is no where that States God as creating those two trees.
Who are those two trees, who exactly does those two trees Repsents?

God explains what each tree offered with a warning.
1. Tree of knowledge offered knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."
2. The tree of life offered immortality, anyone eating from it would live forever.
Genesis 3:22The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

According to genesis 2:16 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil for when he ate it he would die.

The talking serpent corrects Eve understanding about the poisonous tree of knowledge.
Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, "You must not eat from any tree in the garden"?"

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, "You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.""

4 "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Now we have two opposing choices Eve is faced with (Eve's dilemma). Who spoke the truth God or the serpent?

1. Eat the fobidden fruit and you will die according to God to Adam.
2. Eat from it and their eyes will be opened and they will be like God knowing good and evil according to the serpent to,Eve.

Eve ate the forbidden fruit and gave some to Adam.
1. The first thing they noticed was their eyes were opened exactly as the serpent told Eve.
Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

2. They did not die after eating the forbidden fruit. So God was lying.
Genesis 3:Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
Are you freaking kidding me, God never said that they would die right at that moment of eating from the tree, Adam and Eve did eventually died.
Have you any idea as to who the Serpent is?

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

3. God confirms in scriptures he was lying because he offers the same explanation as the serpent offered to Eve :" Eat from it and your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil."

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

God goes a step further and stops Adam and Eve from reaching out to take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Who is it the tree of life Repsents?

So not only were Adam send Eve created as mortals. They were now denied access to the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever. They certainly did not die as God had warned, in fact he said they would continue to live and work which totally contradicted his warning that they would die if they ate the firbidden fruit.

You got to be kidding right, If Adam and Eve are not dead, then by all means where are they to day? God never told them that they would die right at that moment, but eventually they would die and Adam and Eve eventually did die.

Genesis 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

So we know death did not come into the world because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Death come into the world when God killed the first animals to make garments of skin for Adam and Eve and because he denied access to Adam and Eve the tree of life which would have allowed them to live forever.

Have you any idea who death is and what is his name?

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead).after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve did eventually died.God never said they would die right at the moment of eating from the tree.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Genesis 4:1 Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering"fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it."

So why did God punish the serpent when the serpent was proven right. It was God that lied.

That Serpent wasn't proven right, but proven to be wrong, because Adam and Eve did die, God never said they would die right at the moment of eating from the tree.

Genesis 3:So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

But we know that curse never happened either because Satan is the ruler and God of the world.

You have no idea what your talking about.
The curse did happen, that's why all humans has to grow their food. And Satan was defeated at the cross of Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don"t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don"t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Satan is also called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles and many more signify Satan"s capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

Christians are taught that it the because of the original sin committed by Adam and Eve that death came into the world. But there are no supporting scriptures that support their Christian teaching. What we discovered instead is God repeatedly lying.
Adam and Eve did not commit the original sin against God.

There is further evidence in scriptures to show God is bumbling genocidal maniac a liar and voyeur and a rapist who changes his mind after committing the crime.

If there are any Christians out there who are sufficiently well versed in the Bible who can rebut these scriptural allegations. Please produce the scriptural verses that challenge these scriptural allegations so we may all learn the two sided nature of scriptures and how it is possible for God to speak from both sides of his mouth.

First you produce nothing, only that you have nothing only taking things out of there contexts.

First Adam and Eve did not commit the original sin.
Second who is death, What is his name

Third God never told Adam and Eve that they would die, right at the very moment of eating from the tree.

Forth Satan himself is not in this world, Satan's Spirit is in the world, but not Satan personally himself.

Satan and his angels are being restrained by Micheal the Archangel and his angels. Until the 6th trump sounds in the book of Revelation.

If you had any idea what your talking about, unto which you have not a single clue what your saying.

What you trying to do, is like trying to tell a NASA rocket scientist they have no idea about how a Rocket works.
Good Luck on that one.
And your going to try tell those who are well versed in the Bible.
You are way to funny.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

Hockeycowboy said:
I’d like to say one thing (and I don’t want you to think ill of me, but I’m saying it to benefit you):

You are reading the same words that Newton, Boyle, Kepler, etc., had read, and it strengthened their faith in God and His Love. Do you really think that your opposite understanding of those events is more accurate than theirs?

Because your understanding is opposite. It destroys faith in God.
Might you be trying to understand this event, without taking all the Scriptures into consideration, ie., out of context? You are.

Here are some Scriptures that have a bearing on the events in the Garden of Eden account:

2 Peter 3:8, (to God) “a thousand years is one day.” They died within that “day”.

Romans 5:12....so there is a Scripture; remember, you said there wasn’t? (There are others.)

How loving would it be for God (1 John 4:8) to tell them, “If you eat from the tree, you’ll die,” if they didn’t know what death was?
That would be cruel.
They did understand, because they had seen the animals die. Jehovah God’s purpose for animals wasn’t to live forever, only man. As a son of God (Luke 3:38), Adam could have enjoyed that prospect. We can have that opportunity in the future...as humans!
— Revelation 21:3-4.

Take care.

If God made creation perfect why was there death in the Garden of Eden? God did not tell them the forbidden fruit was poisonous. He told them it contained knowledge of good and evil. The serpent assured Eve they would not die if they ate the fruit. Instead theur eyes would be opened and they would become like God knowing good and evil. Which is exactly what happened. Even God confirmed they had now become like God.

Answer: 2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’
The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day isa thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.
The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.
The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:
‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).
The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.
In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm ‫יום ‬, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

Kemosloby said:
That's sort of dense that you cling to the opinion as fact. Adam and Eve had been eating freely from the tree of life, since it was never forbidden for them to do. After they ate the forbidden fruit God kicked them out of the garden of Eden, they no longer had access to the tree of life and so they died 930 some years later. In keeping with what God had said, in the day that you eat of it you will surely die.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

But they did not die on the day they ate the forbidden fruit. And when they died some 930 years later their death was not cause by the fruit they ate 930 years before. They died of natural old age. Nothing sinful about that. They were humans and created mortal according to scriptures. They had to eat from the tree of life (second tree) which would allow them to live forever. But God denied them access to the second tree after they ate from the first tree (the tree of knowledge).

Answer: 2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’
The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day isa thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.
The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.
The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:
‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).
The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.
In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm ‫יום ‬, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’.

Kemosloby · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
But they did not die on the day they ate the forbidden fruit. And when they died some 930 years later their death was not cause by the fruit they ate 930 years before. They died of natural old age. Nothing sinful about that. They were humans and created mortal according to scriptures. They had to eat from the tree of life (second tree) which would allow them to live forever. But God denied them access to the second tree after they ate from the first tree (the tree of knowledge).

Answer: 2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’
The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day isa thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.
The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.
The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:
‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).
The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.
In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm ‫יום ‬, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’.

You're just not putting it together. I give up.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

KenS said:
Actually, the understanding here is wrong. The word "die" in the original Hebrew is plural and not singular. The definition of "death" isn't just "we cease to live" nor is it necessarily instant in all the process (thought some is)

Man is a three part being. His spirit was instantly separated from the Spirit of God. This part was instant and is the first death. It is spirit first (that which we cannot see) and then physical (that what we can see), much like the fig tree that Jesus cursed.

It then began to affect his soul by changing the way he thought. He now lied. This is an ongoing process and is a process of death.

It finally manifested in the natural where he physically died.

Thus, God did not lie for the death was instant (spiritually) and culminated with physical.

God confirmed what the serpent had told Eve, their eyes would be opened and they would become like God. Becoming like God is hardly spiritual death.
Genesis 3:4 you will certainly not die. 5 For God knows when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will become like God.

Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

Adam and Eve did not die (to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead) after eating the forbidden fruit.

Adam and Eve continued to worship and thank the lord for their children. They even taught theur children to make offerings to a God. And God continued to communicate with Adam and Eve and their family.

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

Faithofchristian said:
First you produce nothing, only that you have nothing only taking things out of there contexts.

First Adam and Eve did not commit the original sin.
Second who is death, What is his name

Third God never told Adam and Eve that they would die, right at the very moment of eating from the tree.

Forth Satan himself is not in this world, Satan's Spirit is in the world, but not Satan personally himself.

Satan and his angels are being restrained by Micheal the Archangel and his angels. Until the 6th trump sounds in the book of Revelation.

If you had any idea what your talking about, unto which you have not a single clue what your saying.

What you trying to do, is like trying to tell a NASA rocket scientist they have no idea about how a Rocket works.
Good Luck on that one.
And your going to try tell those who are well versed in the Bible.
You are way to funny.

How am I taking things out of context.
1. Adam and Eve did not commit the original sin.
That is what I said. It was God who committed the first sin. God lied to Adam and he caused death by killing animals to make skin garments for Adam and Eve.

2. What is death?
Die definition, to cease to live; undergo the complete and permanent cessation of all vital physiological functions; become dead.

3. God never told Adam and Eve that they would die, right at the very moment of eating from the tree.

Read verse.
Genesis 2:17 KJV: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God told Adam in/on the day he ate the fruit he would surely die. No, ifs or buts. If God just said don't eat the fruit or you will die, then no timeframe was included. But God was specific in/on when you eat the fruit you will surely die.

In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm ‫יום ‬, is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. The meaning of the days of creation as ordinary days is also affirmed by Exodus 20:8–11, where God told the Israelites to work for six days and rest on the seventh because God had made all things in six days and rested on the seventh. For more information, see other articles in Q&A: Genesis under ‘Days of Creation’.

4. Forth Satan himself is not in this world, Satan's Spirit is in the world, but not Satan personally himself.

2 Corinthians 4:4 NLT. Satan who is God of the world.
A further tie-up between the serpent of Genesis 3 and Satan, or the devil, is given in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2:
‘And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world’
The word ‘Satan" means ‘adversary’—primarily to God, secondarily to men; the term ‘devil’ signifies ‘slanderer’ of God to men, and of men to God.’2

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

Kemosloby said:
You're just not putting it together. I give up.

Please don't give up. I am a biblical scholar and I am working on my thesis on textual criticism of scriptures.

Kemosloby · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
Please don't give up. I am a biblical scholar and I am working on my thesis on textual criticism of scriptures.

You're a Harikrishna so you're only looking for negative criticism of scriptures?

Harikrish · Nov 21, 2017

Kemosloby said:
You're a Harikrishna so you're only looking for negative criticism of scriptures?

Not at all. I am applying my Biblical scholarship on religious forums to get feedback for my thesis.

Kemosloby · Nov 21, 2017

Harikrish said:
Not at all. I am applying my Biblical scholarship on religious forums to get feedback for my thesis.

I would give you a C, about average.

A challenge to all Christians

wind and rain touch not this brain

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Face to face with my Father

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member