What are the 10 Commandments?

Shadow Wolf · Nov 17, 2017

This is a serious question. What exactly are the 10 Commandments? We often hold the images of what Moses had written on the tablets (after he smashed the tablets god gave to him), but yet what was written on these tablets (Exodus 34) is not what we would typically think was written on them, and rather what we think was on them were more of the rules god issued (Exodus 20). Exodus 34:11 specifically states that god is issuing commandments to be upheld as a covenant. Exodus 19:5 also states god said to obey and keep his covenant. Exodus 24:4 says Moses wrote down everything god said, and it's a long list that spans a few chapters, with Exodus 24:8 declaring the much longer list a covenant. Exodus 24:12, however, is when god commands Moses to come to the mount to be given a list of commandments that god wrote. In Exodus 31:18 god finally gives the tablets to Moses, and Moses smashed them in anger in Exodus 32:19, which brings us to Exodus 34:1 were god tells Moses to make two tables of stones like the first, so that the same words that were on the one Moses smashes could be written again.
So, does Exodus 20 or 34 list the 10 Commandments?

Kemosloby · Nov 17, 2017

I guess it might matter if you could find one I haven't broke, except maybe murder. Haven't done that. Probably broke the rest of them so will be needing my transgressions covered.

9-10ths_Penguin · Nov 17, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
This is a serious question. What exactly are the 10 Commandments? We often hold the images of what Moses had written on the tablets (after he smashed the tablets god gave to him), but yet what was written on these tablets (Exodus 34) is not what we would typically think was written on them, and rather what we think was on them were more of the rules god issued (Exodus 20). Exodus 34:11 specifically states that god is issuing commandments to be upheld as a covenant. Exodus 19:5 also states god said to obey and keep his covenant. Exodus 24:4 says Moses wrote down everything god said, and it's a long list that spans a few chapters, with Exodus 24:8 declaring the much longer list a covenant. Exodus 24:12, however, is when god commands Moses to come to the mount to be given a list of commandments that god wrote. In Exodus 31:18 god finally gives the tablets to Moses, and Moses smashed them in anger in Exodus 32:19, which brings us to Exodus 34:1 were god tells Moses to make two tables of stones like the first, so that the same words that were on the one Moses smashes could be written again.
So, does Exodus 20 or 34 list the 10 Commandments?

There's also Deuteronomy 5, which gives a third different set of Ten Commandments (though they're more similar to the Exodus 20 version than the Exodus 34 version).

idav · Nov 17, 2017

Honestly not sure, I think it's a separating of the commandment don't covet thy neighbors goods and don't covet thy neighbors wife, really hard to decide how to count that one lol, teehee,

. Really though there is already a don't commit adultery so it's kinda weird.

Shadow Wolf · Nov 17, 2017

idav said:
Honestly not sure, I think it's a separating of the commandment don't covet thy neighbors goods and don't covet thy neighbors wife, really hard to decide how to count that one lol, teehee, . Really though there is already a don't commit adultery so it's kinda weird.

It's the same with "I am they Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Some count it as one commandment, some as two.

Cobol · Nov 17, 2017

Moses was high on Mount Sinai when god supposedly spoke to him. Yes, he was stoned when he set the Ten Commandments in stone. He was under the influence of DMT or the hallucinogenic ayahuasca, or other plants that are found in the region of Mount Sinai. Moses was probably also on mind-altering drugs when he saw the "burning bush".

George Carlin on the ten commandments

George Carlin Quotes

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

It's always fascinated me that Christians take either Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5 (or some tortured amalgam of the 2) to be "The Ten Commandments.

Yet, as the OP points out, Exodus 34 has a very, very different story to tell -- and surprisingly, it is the only place in the KJV that the actual words, "The Ten Commandments" are actually used. If I were a Christian, based on that, I would have to conclude it's much more important not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk than it is not to commit adultery.

So here's the text (note the highlight in red):

Exodus 34 : 1 And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke. 2 So be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning to Mount Sinai, and present yourself to Me there on the top of the mountain. 3 And no man shall come up with you, and let no man be seen throughout all the mountain; let neither flocks nor herds feed before that mountain.”

4 So he cut two tablets of stone like the first ones. Then Moses rose early in the morning and went up Mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him; and he took in his hand the two tablets of stone.

5 Now the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 6 And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”

8 So Moses made haste and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshiped. 9 Then he said, “If now I have found grace in Your sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray, go among us, even though we are a stiff-necked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us as Your inheritance.”

The Covenant Renewed

10 And He said: “Behold, I make a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation; and all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the Lord. For it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. 11 Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I am driving out from before you the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite. 12 Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. 13 But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images 14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, 16 and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods.

17 “You shall make no molded gods for yourselves.

18 “The Feast of Unleavened Bread you shall keep. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, in the appointed time of the month of Abib; for in the month of Abib you came out from Egypt.

19 “All that open the womb are Mine, and every male firstborn among your livestock, whether ox or sheep. 20 But the firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb. And if you will not redeem him, then you shall break his neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem.

“And none shall appear before Me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; in plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.

22 “And you shall observe the Feast of Weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.

23 “Three times in the year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the Lord God of Israel. 24 For I will cast out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; neither will any man covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

25 “You shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leaven, nor shall the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover be left until morning.

26 “The first of the firstfruits of your land you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments

Shadow Wolf · Nov 17, 2017

Cobol said:
Moses was high on Mount Sinai when god supposedly spoke to him. Yes, he was stoned when he set the Ten Commandments in stone. He was under the influence of DMT or the hallucinogenic ayahuasca, or other plants that are found in the region of Mount Sinai. Moses was probably also on mind-altering drugs when he saw the "burning bush".

That has no more proof than saying Paul was schizophrenic, despite his account of seeing a light and hearing voices are classic signs.
Also possible they were just lying. Or it could be stories that others told, adding these dramatic flairs to make the stories seem more authentic.
That also has absolutely nothing to do with the question I posed.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
I don't know what version you're quoting, but it's not the KJV:
And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. - Exodus 34:27 KJV
Actually, in reviewing and studying for this post, I couldn't find the phrase "Ten Commandments" anywhere. The words commandment and covenant are often used, but nothing is officially labeled as "the 10 Commandments."

One verse further -- 34:28

(Note, at the time I posted, I had NKJV at my disposal -- doesn't change anything.)

Shadow Wolf · Nov 17, 2017

Evangelicalhumanist said:
One verse further -- 34:28

(Note, at the time I posted, I had NKJV at my disposal -- doesn't change anything.)

I deleted that post. I missed the 28 with the others being listed.

Brickjectivity · Nov 17, 2017

Evangelicalhumanist said:
Yet, as the OP points out, Exodus 34 has a very, very different story to tell -- and surprisingly, it is the only place in the KJV that the actual words, "The Ten Commandments" are actually used. If I were a Christian, based on that, I would have to conclude it's much more important not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk than it is not to commit adultery.

You know I am still not sure what that rule is about. People guess about it, but why in particular the milk and the calf. You may eat the calf, and you may drink the milk. So what is it about? It indicates that there are just some things that have been forgotten and that have to be guessed it. The answer, if we knew it, could change the meaning of the entire Bible. That is how it goes with scriptures. One different word can change it all.

***edit*** the relevance to the OP being that, yes, it really matters whether we actually know what the 10 commandments are or not. Its not good if we're using 9 and calling them 10.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

Brickjectivity said:
You know I am still not sure what that rule is about. People guess about it, but why in particular the milk and the calf. You may eat the calf, and you may drink the milk. So what is it about? It indicates that there are just some things that have been forgotten and that have to be guessed it. The answer, if we knew it, could change the meaning of the entire Bible. That is how it goes with scriptures. One different word can change it all.

***edit*** the relevance to the OP being that, yes, it really matters whether we actually know what the 10 commandments are or not. Its not good if we're using 9 and calling them 10.

I think you're missing my real point, which is that the only place in the Bible that says "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS," almost none of the commandments listed are the ones that most Christians think they are. Take a look at Post #7 again, and read what the "commandments" listed there actually say...

Brickjectivity · Nov 17, 2017

Evangelicalhumanist said:
I think you're missing my real point, which is that the only place in the Bible that says "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS," almost none of the commandments listed are the ones that most Christians think they are. Take a look at Post #7 again, and read what the "commandments" listed there actually say...

Yes, you certainly make an astute observation. Good work.

Man, I feel so ignorant. There's so much to know, and I'm supposed to know everything. Its an impossible task. I see the point is to donate the best and the firstfruits for the use of the priests in alleviating suffering, poverty and feeding their own. The kid and its mother's milk must relate to that, perhaps a figure of speech.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

Brickjectivity said:
Yes, you certainly make an astute observation. Good work.

Man, I feel so ignorant. There's so much to know, and I'm supposed to know everything. Its an impossible task. I see the point is to donate the best and the firstfruits for the use of the priests in alleviating suffering, poverty and feeding their own. The kid and its mother's milk must relate to that, perhaps a figure of speech.

Nobody can know everything -- and as a conceited snob, it's hard for me to say that.

But if you goal is to alleviate suffering, the thing you need more than anything else is not scripture and it certainly isn't religion -- it's empathy, and probably money.

Brickjectivity · Nov 17, 2017

Evangelicalhumanist said:
Nobody can know everything -- and as a conceited snob, it's hard for me to say that.

Evangelicalhumanist said:
But if you goal is to alleviate suffering, the thing you need more than anything else is not scripture and it certainly isn't religion -- it's empathy, and probably money.

Well I grasp that, but what if you want to work towards the end of suffering forever. I think the vision of Abraham is to work towards an end to poverty, ignorance and hate. That is worth writing down, but the moment you write something down it starts becoming scripture. Look at...the US constitution. How long before that is thought of as scripture?

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

Brickjectivity said:
Well I grasp that, but what if you want to work towards the end of suffering forever. I think the vision of Abraham is to work towards an end to poverty, ignorance and hate. That is worth writing down, but the moment you write something down it starts becoming scripture. Look at...the US constitution. How long before that is thought of as scripture?

To "work towards the end of suffering forever" may well turn out to be an impossible task -- and there are lots of those. But certainly there are things we can all do to try:

Poverty? That's healed when there's enough of what's needed for everybody (and somebody powerful isn't hoarding it -- another topic altogether, see the 1%). In fact, I suspect that mostly free markets (with a few carefully considered protective rules) is really the best way forward with that. Governments are not (and cannot possibly be) smart enough to "manage an economy." As Adam Smith suggested, only the "blind hand" can do that.

Want to cure ignorance? The cure is learning, and that includes using actual knowledge to dismantle religious bafflegab. When religion teaches you to ignore science in favour of cherished fable, it is doing all of humanity a huge disservice.

Hate? That's a lot harder, but the biggest cause of hate in our human world is belief -- belief that I have knowledge and "truth" that you don't, and that mine is right. When you can provide real evidence for any belief, I'll listen. Until then, keep it to yourself.

Brickjectivity · Nov 17, 2017

Evangelicalhumanist said:
To "work towards the end of suffering forever" may well turn out to be an impossible task -- and there are lots of those. But certainly there are things we can all do to try:

Poverty? That's healed when there's enough of what's needed for everybody (and somebody powerful isn't hoarding it -- another topic altogether, see the 1%).In fact, I suspect that mostly free markets (with a few carefully considered protective rules) is really the best way forward with that. Governments are not (and cannot possibly be) smart enough to "manage an economy." As Adam Smith suggested, only the "blind hand" can do that.

Adam Smith is a genius and the founder of the science of Economics.

Evangelicalhumanist said:
Want to cure ignorance? The cure is learning, and that includes using actual knowledge to dismantle religious bafflegab. When religion teaches you to ignore science in favour of cherished fable, it is doing all of humanity a huge disservice.

What about when religion doesn't teach you to ignore science and opposes superstition? That is worth something.

Evangelicalhumanist said:
Hate? That's a lot harder, but the biggest cause of hate in our human world is belief -- belief that I have knowledge that you don't, and that mine is right. When you can provide real evidence forf any belief, I'll listen. Until then, keep it to yourself.

That is something that we tend to develop when we are young and also the belief "That I have knowledge you don't and that mine is right." Getting rid of it is an unending chore. Unfortunately there are no immortals who can stick around and prevent it from causing problems.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

Brickjectivity said:
That is something that we tend to develop when we are young and also the belief "That I have knowledge you don't and that mine is right." Getting rid of it is an unending chore. Unfortunately there are no immortals who can stick around and prevent it from causing problems.

Then I hope you see that you just also made an existential claim -- that "there are no immortals...."

Which leaves us with us.

Evangelicalhumanist · Nov 17, 2017

But please, @Brickjectivity do not let my aged skepticism stop you in your efforts to do good. That is always a noble goal, and I support you in it. I could wish that more of us made the same efforts.

URAVIP2ME · Nov 17, 2017

idav said:
Honestly not sure, I think it's a separating of the commandment don't covet thy neighbors goods and don't covet thy neighbors wife, really hard to decide how to count that one lol, teehee, . Really though there is already a don't commit adultery so it's kinda weird.

I remember a situation where the mother-in-law kept trying to covet her son over his wife. No adultery there.
The m-in-law in that case was the ' neighbor '

What are the 10 Commandments?

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