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Justice or mercy

What's more important?

  • Justice

    Votes: 10 25.6%
  • Mercy

    Votes: 11 28.2%
  • Justice & Mercy are equal

    Votes: 18 46.2%

  • Total voters
    39

Scott1

Well-Known Member
Booko said:
It is not advisable to show kindness to a person who is a tyrant, a traitor or a thief because kindness encourages him to become worse and does not awaken him. The more kindness you show to a liar the more he is apt to lie, for he thinks that you know not, while you do know, but extreme kindness keeps you from revealing your knowledge.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 412)
An interesting point, thanks for sharing... it clearly shows the difference between your god and the God I worship.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Scott
 

clonejarvis

New Member
hey you guys say mercy is the most important, and its true that we are no where without mercy, but justice is still fulfilled through the mercy we are shown. Justice has to be served, or God isn;t who he says he is, but Mercy doesn't have to be given, He just gives it freely. However, he has to be just at the same time, so someone, namely Jesus, has to undergo the punishment. Justice and Mercy are both fulfilled, but Justice would have to be the more important one... otherwise, we serve a lying God
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Jesus' favorite verse (he said it more often)

"I desire mercy and not sacrifice"

I'll just go along with my Lord on this one. :D
 
I feel that trying to understand God's unabounding mercy is just has hard as contemplating his divine justice. So both...I guess, but I feel that while God is the ultimate judge mankind should hold each other accountable.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
clonejarvis said:
hey you guys say mercy is the most important, and its true that we are no where without mercy, but justice is still fulfilled through the mercy we are shown. Justice has to be served, or God isn;t who he says he is, but Mercy doesn't have to be given, He just gives it freely. However, he has to be just at the same time, so someone, namely Jesus, has to undergo the punishment. Justice and Mercy are both fulfilled, but Justice would have to be the more important one... otherwise, we serve a lying God
A lying God? :confused:

Justice demands retribution: an eye for an eye. Yet:

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (Matthew 5:38-42)

You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy." But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5.43-48)

"But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you. Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." (Luke 6:27-31)

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. (Luke 6:32-37)
 

opuntia

Religion is Law
Justice and mercy are two separate entities. Justice has to do with the application of the law; mercy is the application of what the law lacks: compassion.

We know that the Holy Bible contains laws, besides the Ten Commandments. The Law of Moses had to be followed to the letter. The Gospel Law of Jesus required baptism by immersion, to name a few. Strict application of law was not condoned by Jesus, especially when compassion by the judge was absent.

Paul the Apostle wrote that "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." 2 Corinthians 3:6; KJV). Observing the letter of the law may be commendable when it is applied fairly; but when it is not, then compassion from the heart could mitigate the harshness of the letter of the law.

Jesus was confronted by a situation where a woman had been caught in adultery. The accusers, the scribes and the Pharisees, brought her to Jesus to see what He would do. After hearing their arguments, He asked them:

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

"And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. [What did He write? An enumeration of their sins? It does not say.]

"And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

"When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

"She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." (John 8:7-11).

The Law of Moses required the stoning of the woman, but Jesus exercised mercy or compassion upon the woman.

We all are sinners or lawbreakers according the record, so the Law has a claim upon us, but who will release us from the Law? Jesus. He paid for our sins by taking the Law upon himself, thus exercising compassion.

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5).

The Atonement of Jesus was an act of compassion or mercy in our behalf, so the strict letter of the law or justice would not fall upon us with all of its weight.
 

Maxist

Active Member
That is difficult is it not? Well, I would have to say Justice. I would never go with Capital Punishment, but how could we survive if we simply let people go hwo deserve it? Or even who do not?
 

choosetheright

New Member
God is the perfect judge. There is no fault in His judgements. He gives us mercy (the opportunity to repent when we sin), otherwise, no one would ever be worthy to be in His presence. Jesus took upon Him our sins if we repent and come unto Him. If we refuse His help, He does not force it. God is fair and God is just.
 

choosetheright

New Member
"God’s love is complete and without limit for you and for all mankind. He is perfectly just and merciful."
—Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin​
 

DakotaGypsy

Active Member
In the dark recesses of my mind, I recall a possible ritual I may have participated in, in which it was emphasized that JUSTICE MUST BE TEMPERED WITH MERCY.

I think it might have been something I read in a Golden Dawn book by Israel Regardie. Sort of interesting. Too much ritualistic rigamorole for me.

At any rate, there's a bit of fuss made about a diagram called the Tree of Life according to Qabalic, or possibly Quabalic tradition. I love the transition of Jewish or Arab words into English--you have three or four possibilities for spelling them.

There are points and there are opposing points--Chesed, mercy, opposes Geburah, which I mistakenly thought was Justice, but according to Regardie's scheme of things Geburah is Strength, Power, which is also feminine. Wow! I like that!
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
DakotaGypsy said:
In the dark recesses of my mind, I recall a possible ritual I may have participated in, in which it was emphasized that JUSTICE MUST BE TEMPERED WITH MERCY.

I think it might have been something I read in a Golden Dawn book by Israel Regardie. Sort of interesting. Too much ritualistic rigamorole for me.

At any rate, there's a bit of fuss made about a diagram called the Tree of Life according to Qabalic, or possibly Quabalic tradition. I love the transition of Jewish or Arab words into English--you have three or four possibilities for spelling them.

There are points and there are opposing points--Chesed, mercy, opposes Geburah, which I mistakenly thought was Justice, but according to Regardie's scheme of things Geburah is Strength, Power, which is also feminine. Wow! I like that!
Yes, the ten sephiroth of the tree of life align into three pillars, the pillar of severity/justice on the one side, the pillar of mercy on the other side, and the middle pillar. There's probably a name for that too but I always think of it as the Middle Way (Buddhist influence). Interestingly, the pillar of justice is female and the pillar of mercy is male.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings!

The Baha'i scriptures explicitly state:

"The best beloved of all things in My sight is justice!"

--The HIdden Words, Part One, #2

Best,

Bruce
 

finalfrogo

Well-Known Member
Both an unjust world with forgiveness and an unforgiving world with justice completely suck, so I'll just say they're equal. :D
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
Also in Matthew 5:7 Jesus said, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy."

From Psalm 103: "The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever. He has not dealt with us according to our sins, nor punished us according to our iniquities. For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us. As a father pities his children, so the Lord pities those who fear Him. For He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust."

James 2:13: "For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."

As a sinner I would much rather have God's (or anyone's) mercy than what I deserve, which is justice. So that's the standard of mercy I'm expected to extend to anyone who transgresses against me.
 
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