How are these Great Beings explained?

Vinayaka said:

So true. And we;re just getting into the time of year when it's way too obvious.

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Yep!
So many breakdowns and break-ups around these months.
One large crushing mountain of mammon.
The stresses, demands, traumas and worries.

But not for us.
All anybody has to do to be free of it, is to free themselves of it.

Of course one group of Unitarian Christians doesn't even notice Christmas. The JWs.

I wonder if the Mormons celebrate Christmas?
And why has nobody represented Joseph Smith on this thread, I wonder?

We do have North American Indian members here as well, I would like to read any posts from them.

It's surprising how many names are absent. The Zoorastrians, The LHP folks, the Satanists....... well, they would surely believe that Satan is a Great Being, I suppose?

Just thinking in print.....

oldbadger said:

I wonder if the Mormons celebrate Christmas?
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Enthusiastically yes!

Jane.Doe said:

Enthusiastically yes!

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Great to hear, good to see you post, thank you.

Regards Tony

Jane.Doe said:

Enthusiastically yes!

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Hello.
How many Mormons are there now?
Young Mormon men used to stay in Canterbury, England for one or two years at a time, and presenting their faith on doorsteps all over Kent, circa 1970's-80's. There is a very large Mormon Church in St John's Road, Canterbury.
But I have not seen or met with one in 30 years now.

oldbadger said:

Hello.
How many Mormons are there now?
Young Mormon men used to stay in Canterbury, England for one or two years at a time, and presenting their faith on doorsteps all over Kent, circa 1970's-80's. There is a very large Mormon Church in St John's Road, Canterbury.
But I have not seen or met with one in 30 years now.

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There are just under 16 million worldwide at this time, and just under 71,000 missionaries. If you miss seeing them, I could arrange a visit.

Vinayaka said:

Makes no sense to me. If your religion is better, then it follows you also think you're better, because you've wisely chosen to follow the better religion. If you weren't better, then just go follow any other of the ordinary faiths.

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Do you think, if a Baha'i follows guidance of Bahaullah, specially the following, would he still think he is superior to others?


"He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner, at the hour of death, attained to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draft, hath taken his flight unto the celestial Concourse. And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire."

InvestigateTruth said:

Do you think, if a Baha'i follows guidance of Bahaullah, specially the following, would he still think he is superior to others?

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Yes, happens all the time, unfortunately. It's a very common complaint of ex-Baha'i', at least in what I've read. I think most prophet based religions have a sense of 'we're the lucky ones. It's on this thread.

Being proud of your humility has tremendous irony in it, whomever it comes from.

For the individual it can become a debilitating dilemma.

Vinayaka said:

I'm glad you're agnostic on it. Momen wasn't. Not sure about Baha'u'llah and his descendants who led.

We don't believe this is a place to endure, as you put it. Hindus, for the most part, are taught to enjoy life. One of my Guru's oft quoted quote is 'Life is meant to be lived joyously.' But I can see that if you feel this place is some wretched horrible place to be, then heaven would be quite appealing to the mind.

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I'm all the way up to page 676. Sorry, to back track so much for all of you, but Adrian's answer here doesn't fit a person that totally believes in his infallible messenger. "It is not my belief and faith, but it could be true."

I believe it could be true also. I believe the Baha'is might be true. Maybe even the Christians. I don''t know. But both the Christians and Baha'is put all the "testing" a person goes through into one lifetime. There's so many variables. So many different situations a person could be put through. I think it's much more fair to give a soul a chance to experience life under several of those different situations.

Vinayaka said:

Depends on whose virtues you're talking about. We don't all agree, on lots of things, like gay marriage, ahimsa, capital punishment, nature of God, and much much more. So if we are going to talk about virtues, then we have to define them. You can't just use one general word, and think it applies to all people. That's like saying Australia is in the southern hemisphere. It's not really very helpful for somebody trying to understand Australia.

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Wow, I think I'll write a song... "All you need is virtues"... or... "Imagine all the people living by all the virtues". Sure, I lived through a period of time where all we needed was "love". It worked pretty well until we needed more than love.

But all of the big 9 religions probably somewhere teach "love", but then they also teach other things. I wonder if the Baha'is would put aside all their other beliefs and only live and teach "virtues"? And, like you say, whose virtues? Would they go as far as what John Lennon said to do and get rid of religion...

Prayer to the Great Beings.

A story that could reflect the power of prayer and the way prayers are answered.

I have attended a Sunday Church service in my location for some time. This Church used to come under the banner of AOG (Assembly of God) which transitioned to ACC (Australian Christain Churches).

In the services of late they have been supplicating Christ to be part of thier lives, to open thier eyes and be their only guide. They sing and suplicate the return of their Lord. In Church I assist them in this prayer, that they may see the return they desire.

I have told the Pastor about Baha'u'llah.

The Church is doing a project to start a womens refuge to which I assisted in the town planning aspect for them. A much needed community project, as domestic violence is high in our area centered on Alcohol and Drugs. The town planning is approved and they can start the project.

The congregation have just found out that ACC will not back them on this project and they can not longer be affiliated with ACC if they continue with the project, they have to go it alone. They have decided to do this.

Thus the Chruch services over the last two weeks have been about God and change and how difficult it is to make change in our lives, how we must become more embracing of all humanity and learn to embrace that change.

My continued prayer for them is that their prayers conrinued to be answered.

Without us knowing, Gods greater plan unfolds with all the crisis we face and the choices of heart we make.

Stay well and happy all and may all the Great Beings be our Guide, this is my prayer for all.

Regards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

You take care as well, I deeply admire the JW, their strength and organisation of Faith.

They are a great example.

Regards Tony

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Do you "admire" their beliefs about God and Jesus? Do you believe we can all trace our ancestry back to Noah's family, 4400 years ago?

CG Didymus said:

I'm all the way up to page 676. Sorry, to back track so much for all of you, but Adrian's answer here doesn't fit a person that totally believes in his infallible messenger. "It is not my belief and faith, but it could be true."

I believe it could be true also. I believe the Baha'is might be true. Maybe even the Christians. I don''t know. But both the Christians and Baha'is put all the "testing" a person goes through into one lifetime. There's so many variables. So many different situations a person could be put through. I think it's much more fair to give a soul a chance to experience life under several of those different situations.

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What a great chance to get it right.

Consider this is just the start, who know how many worlds we must traverse to find the goal?

Personally I see we are offered the chance to traverse all worlds in a single leap right here right now. I see in my journey, even when I strongly beleive this, that I still make choices I know do not stand up to the required standard?

What is fairer than Choice. How hard is it, give all self to serve all of our fellow mankind!

Waste no more time why you search, just start giving more of self to others and what you will find is more answers are found.

(Ha ha, Advice to myself) you can consider it if you wish....

Regards Tony

adrian009 said:

For many Abrahamics there is no place for mediocrity in religion, medicine or building let alone something that is below par. For Jews, Christians, and Muslims they can all reasonably claim that their Teacher has been outstanding and they have history they can be proud of. No one wants to be duped into following a mediocre religious teacher.

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It's Baha'is that are quick to point out all the divisions in those religions... all believing something to slightly different to something very different. There were religious leaders that broke away and started most of those denominations and sects. How many teach the exact, according to the Baha'is, truth? None of them. So somebody is being duped.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

What a great chance to get it right.

Consider this is just the start, who know how many worlds we must traverse to find the goal?

Personally I see we are offered the chance to traverse all worlds in a single leap right here right now. I see in my journey, even when I strongly beleive this, that I still make choices I know do not stand up to the required standard?

What is fairer than Choice. How hard is it, give all self to serve all of our fellow mankind!

Waste no more time why you search, just start giving more of self to others and what you will find is more answers are found.

(Ha ha, Advice to myself) you can consider it if you wish....

Regards Tony

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Yes, let's get it right. So with reincarnation do you agree that it is not your belief and faith, "but it could be true."?

And about giving more of self... when and where do you stop? Never? Can you really give it all? Is that practical? Is it possible? Do you feel you have given and are giving all of your self every day to serve mankind? Or, is there more that you can give?

loverofhumanity said:

The truth always was there plain and simple and still is...

‘Love one another’.

Had this law been faithfully obeyed by one and all there would have been no need for God to send Baha’u’llah or any other Messenger after Christ. There would be no need for a spiritual revival, the world would never have had the great wars.

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Yeah, yeah, I said in another post. I lived through the generation where we believed "all you need is love". What happened? Things got added like... all you need is love and some money... some money and maybe a car... a house would be nice. Dang, now I need a steady job...

But let's pretend, for Baha'is, that is the ultimate answer... "Love one another". Can you and are you able to do that? I would imagine there are some problems and barriers to making that a reality. What are they and how are you overcoming them?

CG Didymus said:

Yes, let's get it right. So with reincarnation do you agree that it is not your belief and faith, "but it could be true."?

And about giving more of self... when and where do you stop? Never? Can you really give it all? Is that practical? Is it possible? Do you feel you have given and are giving all of your self every day to serve mankind? Or, is there more that you can give?

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They are great questions, the ones you must ask of yourself. Yes it is possible, the Great Beings led the way, Baha'u'llah gifted Abdul'baha for our example.

Read of Abdul'baha and you will find those answers.


Life is us finding for ourselves the answers to those questions.

Regards Tony

adrian009 said:

It was Abdu'l-Baha that bridged the gap between the East and the West with his visits in the twentieth century. He longed to have travelled further but was not able. Instead, Abdu'l-Baha provided the tablets of the Divine plan that became a charter for the spread of the Baha'i Faith throughout the world and its the Baha'is themselves that must bridge the gap between Hinduism and Buddhism, as we have done with Christianity. That's been a major theme of this thread, and for me the opportunity to reflect more on Faith traditions I have little knowledge of.

All analogies have limitations. I'm not aware of any references in the Baha'i writings themselves to the school analogy but the Baha'is in the West have found this helpful. Its best use in the East would be to consider the progress from Hinduism to Buddhism.

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Yes, the problem here has been the connection from Hinduism and Buddhism to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Very basic beliefs in each are already different. I can see a "progression" or even a "synthesis" in religions, but it's very different than the progression Baha'is believe in. I can see how people progress and leave archaic ideas and practices and beliefs behind... and revamp their religions to fit the times. In the meanwhile, other religions have popped up.

But the line of progression between Judaism to Christianity to Islam to the Baha'i Faith (and weird that we never say Babism in there) is completely separate from the religions of India and other places. Judaism has a beginning and a progression all its own, and never refers to a "true" religion that it evolved from. It is the beginning of the line that all those other "Abrahamics" refer back to as from where they evolved from.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

...you are free to draw your conclusions.

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Yes I am and I do - how about you?

adrian009 said:

I consider the NT in the light of modern biblical scholarship, comparative religion and science.



The baptism of Jesus represents the first public event in Jesus's ministry.

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This is what I asked, "So everything that Christians believed about Jesus begins with a false belief that he rose from the dead?"

So you believe modern Biblical scholarship shows that they didn't hold this belief in the resurrection of Jesus? You can't just say that they believed it but were wrong? That they made it up or imagined it?

But the gospel writers say it happened, but the apostles and the early Christians didn't believe it? Hello, is their any Christians reading this? Did you know your religious beliefs are false? Jesus didn't rise from the dead... modern scholarship, comparative religion and science says so.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Again the importance of this is what is being discussed in the story and that is "let the Dead Bury the Dead".

If we look at the story from a Christian view, they add more explanations about the dead Father, but it does not take away from the key point of the story;

"...Jesus said, “Let the dead bury the dead,” in response to a disciple who wanted to spend time at home before committing himself to the Lord. Jesus said, “‘Follow me.’ But the man replied, ‘Lord, first let me go and bury my father.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God’” (Luke 9:59–60). This man may have wanted to fulfill the oldest son’s duty to bury the father, to be near the father in order to obtain an inheritance, or to remain near the body of his father for up to one year to rebury the bones, a practice of some Jews at the time. In any event, Jesus’ answer makes clear that this request would have involved putting tradition or the disciple’s own desires ahead of serving Jesus." What did Jesus mean when He said "Let the dead bury the dead" (Luke 9:60)?

I agree with their conclusion, but a lot of that is not in the recorded story, we are to pull these spiritual understandings from the recorded story.

The Bible Contains the Word of God, it is not a word for word record of each event or talk given.

Regards Tony

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Lovely! But as is the Baha'i wont in discussions of this nature you have completely missed the point - Baha'u'llah quotes - get it - quotes - a passage that he believes is in the Gospel - but there is no such passage - he either made that up - or - more likely IMO simply copied from a book about the Gospel account and did not bother to check the Bible account itself. In either case, it IS an error - because there is no Gospel passage that actually states that the disciples father had already died and Baha'u'llah erroneously states that there is.