What's the True Message Of Christianity: Love Or Hellfire?

It sometimes seems to me that Christians have often been divided into two camps: Those who think the essential message of Christianity is love your neighbor, yourself and your God, and those who think the essential message of Christianity is you're going to hell if you don't accept Christ as your lord and savior.

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

Of the two camps, which is truer to the Christianity practiced by the early Christians?

Of the two camps, which is the dominant or majority position among Christians today?

Are the two camps in some way compatible, or are they basically incompatible?

Does the division of Christianity into these two camps represent a deeper division of people into optimists and pessimists?

Of the two camps, which is truer to what Jesus preached?

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

Perhaps, but not on a large scale IMO. I definately see a camp that is pretty much hellfire preaching only, but despite my rampid distaste for all things evangelical, I must recognize that many in the "hell camp" are not exclusive of teaching people to love others.

So I would have to say that we cannot divide large groups of Christians in to a "hell camp" and a "love camp."

Is the Christian message of love something that only applies to loving other Christians, and then only those other Christians who think much like you do -- as was suggested to me recently by a young Christian in my town who believed the most important message of Christianity was salvation from hellfire?

NO! If we love our own, we have accomplished nothing. Even "sinners" love their own.

Is the Christian message of love wishy washy feel good nonsense, as was suggested to me recently by yet another young Christian fundamentalist in my town?

Only if it is pacifist.

Are Christians who focus on avoiding hellfire missing the essential point of Christianity and avoiding the arduous work of loving oneself, one's neighbor, and one's God?

Some of them are, of course, but I think that many hell-fire believers try to love others.

It sometimes seems to me that Christians have often been divided into two camps: Those who think the essential message of Christianity is love your neighbor, yourself and your God, and those who think the essential message of Christianity is you're going to hell if you don't accept Christ as your lord and savior.

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

Click to expand...

I think so. From what I've seen these are the two schools of thought. A month or so ago I was talking to one of the 'hellfire' ones in Liverpool - I started a thread about it - and she said you have to accept Jesus as your saviour or you go to Hell. Then I see the 'peace and love' kind of ones which, from my experiences, seem to be the majority.

Of the two camps, which is truer to the Christianity practiced by the early Christians?

Click to expand...

I don't really think I'm qualified to make that assesment because I'm not a Christian, nor have I studied into the religion in depth, although I'd hope it isn't the hellfire one which is truer.

Of the two camps, which is the dominant or majority position among Christians today?

Click to expand...

From Christians I have spoke to, the 'love your neighbour' kind seem to be more dominant.

Are the two camps in some way compatible, or are they basically incompatible?

Click to expand...

I think they are mostly incompatible.

Does the division of Christianity into these two camps represent a deeper division of people into optimists and pessimists?

Click to expand...

No, I think you can have optimists and pessimists on either side of the divide.

Of the two camps, which is truer to what Jesus preached?

Click to expand...

Jesus always seemed like a nice guy in the movies, so I'm gonna go with 'love your neighbour'.

I have been "camping" (very intent on doing some work today):sorry1:

I guess there must be some Christians around who preach brimstone and fire; personally, I don't believe in that approach. That's why I call myself a follower of Christ; his message was 'Love'

Sunstone said:

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

Click to expand...

Well, the extremes are. Then there's the rest of the bell curve.

Of the two camps, which is truer to the Christianity practiced by the early Christians?

Click to expand...

Neither. Both the carrot and the stick have their uses in guiding children, no matter the age. That's why we have both laws and public health campaigns.

Of the two camps, which is the dominant or majority position among Christians today?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't dare to say without some good studies being done. The Hellfire camp is more vocal, which makes them look bigger, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find the kindler & gentler camp actually has more members.

Are the two camps in some way compatible, or are they basically incompatible?

Click to expand...

See above.

Does the division of Christianity into these two camps represent a deeper division of people into optimists and pessimists?

Click to expand...

No, but I have found a fairly reliable correlation (anecdotally anyway) between members of the hellfire camp and low self-esteem, and the love & peace camp and self-confidence.

Of the two camps, which is truer to what Jesus preached?

Click to expand...

Jesus spoke much more of love, but He didn't fail to mention consequences.

Wow Sunstone... what a plethora of questions!

I would suggest that Love is the only true demarcation of being a disciple of Jesus.

God gets a bad rap over this "Hell Camp/Issue". Individually, we have seperated ourselves from our God. It wasn't God's choice, it was ours.

Jesus is the method for God to get us back in communion with him. We are all drowning in this sea of sin and despair (our decision) and he has sent out a life boat. Now we are all pissy because we don't like the color/shape/style of this life boat and blame him for "condemning" us to hell. Either be grateful for the life boat or keep treading water.

As for brimstone and hell fire preachers, they are indeed quite rare now. There are some still out there and they are usually war mongers and homophobes. Sucks to be them and very few take them seriously.

God really never expects any of us to be perfect in this life time. He does however want us to be loving to each other. That's the real message of Jesus' ministry. We show our belief in Jesus by our capacity to love. He who has been forgiven much, loves much. The same amount of forgiveness is available to all of us: if we only will accept it.

Sunstone:It sometimes seems to me that Christians have often been divided into two camps: Those who think the essential message of Christianity is love your neighbor, yourself and your God, and those who think the essential message of Christianity is you're going to hell if you don't accept Christ as your lord and savior.

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

I think this is a great topic. I left organized religion because of the going to hell crowd. It never seemed realistic to me that so many good (just not Christian) people should be condemned to hell. I never found a church that I felt stressed the Love and not the Hellfire.

Of the two camps, which is truer to the Christianity practiced by the early Christians?
I am not a bible scholar--but my recollections of Jesus teachings have always been of the Love thy neighbor, do unto others variety--I don't recall anywhere that Jesus said--believe in me or suffer the fires of Hell. I am pretty well convinced the real church of Jesus died out about 50 years after the crucifiction.

Of the two camps, which is the dominant or majority position among Christians today? It seems to me that the Hellfire church is the dominant majority today. That is definately my oepinion about churches in the US--I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. Certainly the Roman Catholic Church is about going to hell and not about love.

Are the two camps in some way compatible, or are they basically incompatible?
I tend to think they are incompatible--because of the rigidity of the fundamentalist churches--you can debate and discuss until you are blue in the face , present logical arguements and not sway them one tiny bit.

Does the division of Christianity into these two camps represent a deeper division of people into optimists and pessimists?

I don't think it is optimists or pessimists--I think there are people who feel most confortable with everything being very cut and dried, black and white, they feel most comfortable with routine and rules. I think they find it easier to just follow the rules than to think for themselves or question. Since I have know optimists and pessimists in both camps it seems to go deeper that that.

Of the two camps, which is truer to what Jesus preached?

I think I answered this above--but Jesus taught love, peace (unfortunately not rock and roll--sorry couldn't resist)--I am not certain Jesus actually intended to start a new religion, I have said before I think Paul pretty much hijacked what Jesus started and turned it into something very different than Jesus intended--and the Catholic Church continued that process over-time. Some of the protestant denominations began with good intentions--but I think they kept some of the wrong things as well. These are just my humble opinions of course.

I don't think there are 2 camps, Jesus loved us and also died for us, why? Must have been something pretty awful to have to come and die for us to save us from...He loved us, warned us, taught us, died for us, Here are some of His words:

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(King James Bible, John)

Notice that Jesus said that those who believe not are already condemned. Why? They have no provision, no covering, no payment for their sin, and must pay for it themselves since they did not accept God's provision, by believing in His Son, that His Son paid for their sins. That's the Gospel, that Christ paid for our sins and gives us salvation for free by believing in, trusting in Him, that He did it and we accepted it. Jesus tells us plainly, He warned us of Hell, He loved us and paid for our sins so we do not ever have to go there. Nobody else paid for my sins, but He did, and I am glad I don't have to.

Sunstone said:

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

Click to expand...

I see a fairly distinct demarcation between them.

Of the two camps, which is truer to the Christianity practiced by the early Christians?

Click to expand...

The one I accept, of course. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."

Of the two camps, which is the dominant or majority position among Christians today?

Click to expand...

I think that, to one degree or another, probably the one which emphasizes love.

Are the two camps in some way compatible, or are they basically incompatible?

Click to expand...

I think that the ideologies may be compatible, but I'm starting to think that the two groups of people aren't.

Does the division of Christianity into these two camps represent a deeper division of people into optimists and pessimists?

Click to expand...

No, I don't think so. I'm a pessimist at heart, and yet I believe true Christianity focuses on love and mercy, not on condemnation.

Of the two camps, which is truer to what Jesus preached?

Click to expand...

Love. Absolutely.

Katzpur said:

I think that the ideologies may be compatible, but I'm starting to think that the two groups of people aren't.

Click to expand...

Oh, the people are compatible. They just don't hang out together much, because when two strongly opposing opinions happen, the church fragments, which allows the extremes to get...extremer.

I have to wonder what would happen if a bunch of people spent significant time together, and the only thing they were allowed to do was get to know each other in every way *but* religious theology, and they spent hours of their time just praying together.

I know I've seen some pretty...uh...diverse bunches of Baha'is get together. Haha...toss an ex-Nation of Islam and an ex-KKK guy in the same room and do you think it was all sweetness and love right away? Goodness, no! But it's amazing how even after the first few prayers you could feel the tension start to lift, and after a whole hour it was just gone. And *then* we got down to business.

When you can get focused on God, all things are possible.

I was trying to find scripture on Jesus' love which I know there are many. I know Jesus' message well and adore it, but this guy is f'n crazy.

http://www.bettybowers.com/oprah.html

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "And a second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Jesus as quoted by Matthew 22:37-40)

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." (Jesus as quoted by John 13:34-35)

"Whatever you want others to do for you, do so for them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." (Jesus as quoted by Matthew 7:12)

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward in heaven will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men." (Jesus as quoted by Luke 6:35)

"Whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give His life a ransom for many." (Jesus as quoted by Mark 10:43-45)

"If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you." (Jesus (after cleaning the feet of His followers) as quoted by John 13:14-15)

Booko said:

Oh, the people are compatible. They just don't hang out together much, because when two strongly opposing opinions happen, the church fragments, which allows the extremes to get...extremer.

I have to wonder what would happen if a bunch of people spent significant time together, and the only thing they were allowed to do was get to know each other in every way *but* religious theology, and they spent hours of their time just praying together.

I know I've seen some pretty...uh...diverse bunches of Baha'is get together. Haha...toss an ex-Nation of Islam and an ex-KKK guy in the same room and do you think it was all sweetness and love right away? Goodness, no! But it's amazing how even after the first few prayers you could feel the tension start to lift, and after a whole hour it was just gone. And *then* we got down to business.

When you can get focused on God, all things are possible.

Click to expand...

That is really nice to hear, Booko. Sometimes I start thinking about what it would be like if everyone on RF could somehow get together in person and actually get to know each other. I try to imagine sitting down face-to-face with some of the people I've exchanged :slap: with, and I'll bet that if we could actually communicate in person instead of on a internet forum and were to really want to find some common ground, we actually could. I think the key is desire, though. And it can't just be one-sided.

ALifetimeToWaitFor.... said:

I was trying to find scripture on Jesus' love which I know there are many. I know Jesus' message well and adore it, but this guy is f'n crazy.

Click to expand...

Uh, the Landover Baptist church is a parody. He doesn't actually believe his schlock.

Katzpur said:

That is really nice to hear, Booko. Sometimes I start thinking about what it would be like if everyone on RF could somehow get together in person and actually get to know each other. I try to imagine sitting down face-to-face with some of the people I've exchanged :slap: with, and I'll bet that if we could actually communicate in person instead of on a internet forum and were to really want to find some common ground, we actually could. I think the key is desire, though. And it can't just be one-sided.

Click to expand...

That's what they make chicken BBQs for (no offense, Booko *buck, buck!).

Ahhhhhhhh. lol it just made me think of this tape I found at a gas station air pump thing. The tape read the truth of hell. So i popped it in and had a good laugh for about an hour.

I also thing that John 3:16 is overused my evangelists, borderline hellfire. Teach the message of Jesus' compassion and people will want to hear more.

Are Christians really divided into these two camps to some extent? If so, to what extent?

Click to expand...

I would say no. Most Christians teach both the love of God, and an eternal punishment for the unrepentant... Though there are fringe groups who deny the love of God, and numerous churches that deny the punsihment aspect...

Of the two camps, which is truer to the Christianity practiced by the early Christians?

Click to expand...

Neither of the two extremes that deny the other part is any closer than the other to what early Christians practiced...

Of the two camps, which is the dominant or majority position among Christians today?

Click to expand...

Once again, the dominant/majority section teach both. Going by the two extremes, there are more... liberal... churches than extreme Westboro Baptist type churches... alot more.

Are the two camps in some way compatible, or are they basically incompatible?

Click to expand...

The two extremes are probably not compatable, though the two ideologies are.

Of the two camps, which is truer to what Jesus preached?

Click to expand...

Jesus the Christ preached both, so neither would be truer...

i grew up cathloic and never once do i recall ever being preched the "your going to hell if you" bit. i remember this because (i will make this a quick story)

i went to texas one summer to hang with the grandparents who were southern baptists, well this one sunday i told my grandma i did not like her church (because of the sunday school) and how she should just let me go to the cathloic church up the street. she of course refused. that same day i snuck out of the sunday school and went in with the grown folks and sat next to grandma, and i will never forget this, the precher was going on and on about if you do this or that you're going to hell, and he was quite angry about it. i was in shock by what i was hearing and told my grandma that he can't say that! for he is not god so who is he to judge. when church was finished i told her, see your church is no good, you should find a new one.

i have been to many different types of churches in my life and i can say from experience that most are this kind of division where as there are also others who follow a happy medium with these two extremes.

i think it is more like Good news ,And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come..... matthew 24;14

michel said:

I have been "camping" (very intent on doing some work today):sorry1:

I guess there must be some Christians around who preach brimstone and fire; personally, I don't believe in that approach. That's why I call myself a follower of Christ; his message was 'Love'

Click to expand...

I use the law( Sin /punishment)to convict the proud, heart and grace(love) the broken heart
Love was displayed by Christ of course but he preached hell many times,
God speaks of hell, everlasting punishment over 230 some times.

Why would anyone not preach Hell,possibly of risk they offend someone.