Two Deaths in Christianity

Grandliseur · Nov 7, 2017

Fool said:
What are the two deaths being referred to in revelation?

And can Christ come to those who have experienced the second death?

1st Death
Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

2nd Death
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Denominational dogma interferes here with understanding what happens. As long as Paradise has not been re-established there is going to be disagreement on this teaching.
The first resurrection, not first death, means that those who get it no longer are in danger from the second death, eternal damnation. These shall be kings and priests with Christ in heaven.

The second resurrection may be in danger from the second death, only may, but for sure, many shall die, have those who suffer the second death, eternal damnation. The second death is Gehenna and the Lake of Fire.

The first death - simply refers to the death pre-judgment, all in Sheol, Hades, the Sea, shall be judged, some will be resurrected, some shall be judged worthy of the Lake of Fire.

InChrist · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
What are the two deaths being referred to in revelation?

And can Christ come to those who have experienced the second death?

1st Death
Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

2nd Death
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The first resurrection involves believers in Christ. The second death refers to non-believers.

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).
What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?

TransmutingSoul · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
What are the two deaths being referred to in revelation? And can Christ come to those who have experienced the second death?

We get an understanding on this topic when we hear Christ say in Matthew 8:22; "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."

Christ said this in response to a Disciple that said in verse 21, "Another disciple said to him, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."" Thus the Spiritually Dead Disciple was to bury His dead Father

Thus the 2nd Death is a Spiritual Death, it is not turning to God through Gods Messenger. In the time of Christ, that was turning to Christ.

In this passage Christ was talking about His Return, when He told us to turn to the Spirit of Truth, that Spirit of Truth was Baha'u'llah. We again have the opportunity to decide if Baha'u'llah is the One promised by Christ and if we find it is so, we can be Born Again in that Spirit of acceptance. The 2nd Death can not overcome this acceptance.

Regards Tony

Kemosloby · Nov 8, 2017

The first death is the end of this life as we know it. Jesus is going to resurrect everyone from the first death, both the righteous and the wicked. Then comes judgement, where God and the Angels separate the "wheat from the tares" . The righteous are the wheat and the wicked are the tares. The tares are then cast into hell , then death and hell are cast into the lake of fire, burned up and destroyed forever. So, what kind of people had you ought to be?

crossfire · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
if we aren't in nirvana, paradise, are we then in some conflict of duality, or divisive towards self, or others as self?

Some form of suffering. Not necessarily those you listed.

wizanda · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
What are the two deaths being referred to in revelation?

In my opinion:

First off there are not two deaths... The first word you're quoting in Greek is 'Not-Death' i.e. resurrection:

G386
ἀνάστασις
anastasis
an-as'-tas-is
From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

So there is first the resurrection of the saints, who follow the teachings of Yeshua; yet do not worship the beast or any form of idolatry, etc:

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Fool said:

And can Christ come to those who have experienced the second death?

Click to expand...

The second death is the final removal of death, and Hell from reality; which is after the thousand years of the enlightened saints reigning on earth, then there is the final battle with all those who're not saints, then the rest are removed for good at the second death.

The second death is that all ungodly will be chucked into an infinite burning lake of fire; thus Christ could go into the fire to see if they want to listen finally, yet there isn't much point, most souls who don't want to accept what has already been said, are not going to change suddenly.

In my opinion.

Light in darkness · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
but what about the dead that bury the dead? are they naturally dead?

The dead that bury the dead is a metaphor of those that don’t have the breath of life, or that won’t follow Christ.

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

Grandliseur said:
Denominational dogma interferes here with understanding what happens. As long as Paradise has not been re-established there is going to be disagreement on this teaching.
The first resurrection, not first death, means that those who get it no longer are in danger from the second death, eternal damnation. These shall be kings and priests with Christ in heaven.

eternal damnation is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as the force that created self. it's literally only forgivable by self and acceptance of the Spirit inherent in self. people don't forgive what they can't understand as a wrong against self.

Grandliseur said:

The second resurrection may be in danger from the second death

Click to expand...

Grandliseur said:
, only may, but for sure, many shall die, have those who suffer the second death, eternal damnation. The second death is Gehenna and the Lake of Fire.

all die the natural death, or physical death.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Grandliseur said:

The first death

Click to expand...

Grandliseur said:
- simply refers to the death pre-judgment, all in Sheol, Hades, the Sea, shall be judged, some will be resurrected, some shall be judged worthy of the Lake of Fire.

so you believe that the Absolute destroys aspects of itself?

wizanda · Nov 8, 2017

Kemosloby said:
Jesus is going to resurrect everyone from the first death, both the righteous and the wicked.

Where does it say that the wicked are resurrected please?

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

InChrist said:
The first resurrection involves believers in Christ. The second death refers to non-believers.

Revelation 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and identifies those involved as “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14) has no power over these individuals. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).
What is the first resurrection? What is the second resurrection?

the first resurrection is the realization of the kingdom of heaven within, which Christ revealed within self, or the Spirit of God

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

I AM the Light of the world

Kemosloby · Nov 8, 2017

wizanda said:
Where does it say that the wicked are resurrected please?

Acts 24:15
New International Version
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

savagewind · Nov 8, 2017

wizanda said:
Where does it say that the wicked are resurrected please?

Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God that they themselves cherish, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
John 5:29
and come out--those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
We get an understanding on this topic when we hear Christ say in Matthew 8:22; "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."

Christ said this in response to a Disciple that said in verse 21, "Another disciple said to him, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father."" Thus the Spiritually Dead Disciple was to bury His dead Father

Thus the 2nd Death is a Spiritual Death, it is not turning to God through Gods Messenger. In the time of Christ, that was turning to Christ.

In this passage Christ was talking about His Return, when He told us to turn to the Spirit of Truth, that Spirit of Truth was Baha'u'llah. We again have the opportunity to decide if Baha'u'llah is the One promised by Christ and if we find it is so, we can be Born Again in that Spirit of acceptance. The 2nd Death can not overcome this acceptance.

Regards Tony

jesus said that it can't be found somewhere else; which includes someone else. because everyone should know the Lord for self. know thyself.

Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

the Kingdom of God comes from within. Christ is the Light within all things.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

this could be us too.

Revelation 10:1
And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

Light in darkness said:
The dead that bury the dead is a metaphor of those that don’t have the breath of life, or that won’t follow Christ.

love of other as self is Christ revealed

take up the yoke and allow love to be the guide?

love is two beings striving together/yoked to create something wonderful?

you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

feed my Lambs

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

wizanda said:
In my opinion:

First off there are not two deaths... The first word you're quoting in Greek is 'Not-Death' i.e. resurrection:

So there is first the resurrection of the saints, who follow the teachings of Yeshua; yet do not worship the beast or any form of idolatry, etc:

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The second death is the final removal of death, and Hell from reality; which is after the thousand years of the enlightened saints reigning on earth, then there is the final battle with all those who're not saints, then the rest are removed for good at the second death.

The second death is that all ungodly will be chucked into an infinite burning lake of fire; thus Christ could go into the fire to see if they want to listen finally, yet there isn't much point, most souls who don't want to accept what has already been said, are not going to change suddenly.

In my opinion.

hard to change your mind, when one is no longer in human form, isn't it?

thanks for opining

wizanda said:
In my opinion:

First off there are not two deaths... The first word you're quoting in Greek is 'Not-Death' i.e. resurrection:

So there is first the resurrection of the saints, who follow the teachings of Yeshua; yet do not worship the beast or any form of idolatry, etc:

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The second death is the final removal of death, and Hell from reality; which is after the thousand years of the enlightened saints reigning on earth, then there is the final battle with all those who're not saints, then the rest are removed for good at the second death.

The second death is that all ungodly will be chucked into an infinite burning lake of fire; thus Christ could go into the fire to see if they want to listen finally, yet there isn't much point, most souls who don't want to accept what has already been said, are not going to change suddenly.

In my opinion.

like the richman and his apathy towards lazarus, even in hell he could only think of self and his. he wanted Lazarus to come suffer in hell for a drink of water for him after ignoring Lazarus' suffering all those years.

changing our mind's about someone can change the world

james bond · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
What are the two deaths being referred to in revelation?

And can Christ come to those who have experienced the second death?

1st Death
Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

2nd Death
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The first death is whether we welcome it or not.

AFAIK, the second death is the death of the spiritually perfect self in the Lake of Fire. In any case, it isn't welcome. I'm sure there is more to this than meets the eye.

james bond · Nov 8, 2017

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
I guess if you can die twice you can die lots of times. Depends on how many lives and continues you still have, of course.

You're making stuff up. You only live twice.

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

james bond said:
You're making stuff up. You only live twice.

the personality only lives once. the Spirit is eternal.

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." = Melchizedek

But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." = John the Baptist

angels/spirits ascend and descend upon the son of man.

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?

Grandliseur · Nov 8, 2017

Fool said:
eternal damnation is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as the force that created self. it's literally only forgivable by self and acceptance of the Spirit inherent in self. people don't forgive what they can't understand as a wrong against self.

all die the natural death, or physical death.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

so you believe that the Absolute destroys aspects of itself?

Well, since this topic is not agreed upon among the Christian denominations, why should you who do not identify as Christian agree!

The subject itself is quite simple once you have studied scripture for many years.
We have the following Hebrew and Greek definitions, Sheol, Hades, and also the word death and the sea in Revelation all referring to the same pre-judgment death. All who die are in this virtual grave Sheol or Hades. This is the first death that all share.

Second death is then what Jesus spoke of as Gehenna or the Lake of fire, eternal damnation, or eternal sleep in death; there is only sleep so to say, non-existence. There is no torment. Thanks God.

Fool · Nov 8, 2017

Grandliseur said:
Well, since this topic is not agreed upon among the Christian denominations, why should you who do not identify as Christian agree!

The subject itself is quite simple once you have studied scripture for many years.
We have the following Hebrew and Greek definitions, Sheol, Hades, and also the word death and the sea in Revelation all referring to the same pre-judgment death. All who die are in this virtual grave Sheol or Hades. This is the first death that all share.

Second death is then what Jesus spoke of as Gehenna or the Lake of fire, eternal damnation, or eternal sleep in death; there is only sleep so to say, non-existence. There is no torment. Thanks God.

all die as a personality.

this is why most of christianity is a cult of personality.

majority rule isn't necessarily truth; otherwise Jesus would have been wrong per the pharisees, sadducees, and scribes.

do you suppose that God would destroy itself, if nothing can survive apart from it except in it's own delusions, it's own personality?

the Spirit of God isn't exclusive to a person. in fact, the OT teaches that the Spirit is ruach and a person is nephesh. the NT makes a distinction between the two too. One is eternal the other is temporal.

Two Deaths in Christianity

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