You asked, "Why would a prophetic book written 70 years after Chrsits crucifixion prophecise Christ being crucified?"
It says the two witnesses lie dead in the street in the city where their Lord was crucified. And then to clarify the other point is that it says the "Lord" of the two witnesses is the one who was crucified. Is this Jesus?
No, but the language, stories, and symbols used will usually build on what is known. However its not Jesus because we are referring to the time that the Holy Land was trampling underfoot by the gentiles. (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:21-24).
The time of the gentiles, for the Baha'is refers to the period of time that the Holy Land, including Jerusalem was within the domain of an Islamic empire. The Christian's understanding of course is a little more vague.
What are the times of the Gentiles?
When did the Muslims take over Jerusalem?
Siege of Jerusalem (636–637) - Wikipedia
Who has controlled Jerusalem and the surrounding lands since then?
Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia
Muslims of course, apart from a brief period of 88 years or so with the first crusade until Saladin recaptures it for the Muslims.
So the context of the two witnesses is the time of the gentiles, when Jerusalem is inhabited by Muslims, not Christians or Jews or even Romans.
So the witnesses are associated with Islam.
Btw, Jews were first able to return to their homeland through the edict of toleration signed in....wait for it....drum roll....1844.
Edict of Toleration 1844 - Wikipedia
If so, then how is Jesus the "Lord" of Muhammad and Ali? God is their Lord isn't he? Not Jesus, the manifestation.
Jesus is NOT the Lord of Muhammad.
Are you thinking of revelation 11:8?
Here's the KJV which I usually quote from.
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Where the Lord was crucified does refer to where Jesus was crucified, which of course was on the outskirts of Jerusalem.
Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia
I've asked about the problems with the 1260 days/years in another post. But the gist of the question is: We have 1260 mentioned five times. So when was the Holy City trampled in Rev 11:2. Whenever that date is, we add the 1260 years. Rev 11:3... When did the two witnesses start prophesying. From that date, we add 1260 years.
I think we have covered the period the Holy City was trampled by the Muslims. Lets look at those references to 1260. I hope you agree by now that the year 1260 on the Islamic calendar is the same as 1844 on the Gregorian calendar. I hope you agree that like the 7 headed, 10 horned beast being referenced several times it is the same beast, as 1260 refers to the same time period, despite different uses in different contexts.
Revelation 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
There will be 1260 years of Islam, or the Influence of Muhammad and Ali from Muhammad's pilgrimage in 622 AD when the Islamic calendar begun, until when prophesising was no longer relevant as it had been superseded by the new Manifestation of God the Bab.
Rev 11:9... The two witnesses are killed. When did that happen? From that date, we add 1260, because they lie in the street for 31/2 days or the 1260 years.
Revelation 11:9
And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
I see the problem you are having. Islam is in the reigns of leadership immediately after the prophets death in 632 through Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and finally Ali (who doesn't have sufficient time to positively change the course of Islam) before the Umayyads. Rather than having a new starting point such as 632 or 661, these verse is saying that the period of prophecy as in 11:3 above is largely a period where the true law of God is subverted.
Rev 12:6... The woman gives birth then flees. When did that happen? From that date she is in the wilderness for 1260 years.
Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
The woman symbolises the law of God that is in the wilderness (obscured) rather than out in the open as it should be. So we are taking the same approach as Rev 11:9 where we are looking at the general character of the period of prophecy of the two witnesses.
Rev 13:5... the beast gets authority from the dragon. When did that happen? From that point, the beast exercises his authority for the 1260 years.
Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
This too is looking at the general character of the 1260 period. Its character can also be symbolised by the dragon as exemplified by the Umayyad dynasty.
Revelation 13:3-4
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
The Umayyads were overthrown by the Abbasids in 749 AD. The destruction of the Umayyads seemed total. However, one of the Umayyads, 'Abd al-Rahman, known as "The Falcon of the Quraysh," managed to escape to Andalusia (Spain) where he set up another Umayyad dynasty that lasted for 300 years. Thus Andalusia was the wounded head that healed.
Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia
Abd al-Rahman I - Wikipedia
Rev 13:11... No more 1260 year references, but here's another beast that comes after the first beast. So it has to be after the 1260 years of the first beast, doesn't it? But we do get a supposed date from this beast, the number of his name is 666, which Baha'is have made into a date... the start of the Ummayad dynasty?
Revelation 13:11
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
The second beast was the 'Abbasid dynasty. The Abbasid dynasty came to power by conquest on the ruins (earth) of the Umayyad Empire. Its rulers gradually became Turkish beginning about 840 AD. The second
beast had two names (horns) of "The Caliph" and "The Sultan."
Fine, let's pretend that is what 666 stands for. What does 666 to 1844 equal? My calculator says 1178. Since you use "lunar" years what does it equal? But... there's another problem... How long did the Ummayads stay in power? If not all the way to 1844, what good is using them as the beast that has authority for 1260 years?
Don't use 666 for the calculation but 632. I see the problem you are having and I think you are taking it somewhat literally. Look at these verses long enough and you either get bored witness, go crazy, or become a lot more knowledgeable about religion and history. I hope its the latter.
Anyway, I looked it up. The caliphate was ruled by the
Umayyad dynasty hailing from
Mecca. An Umayyad clan member had previously come to power as the third
Rashidun Caliph,
Uthman ibn Affan (r. 644–656), but official Umayyad rule was established by
Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan, long-time governor of
Syria, after the end of the
First Muslim Civil War in AD 661.
Pleased to hear you are studying some history.
So how did Baha'is get 666 as the date? But then, on top of that, the Ummayads didn't stay in power for 1260 years.
The
Abbasid Revolution refers to the overthrow of the
Umayyad Caliphate (661–750 CE), the second of the four major
Caliphates in early
Islamic history, by the third, the
Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258 CE).
The fourth caliphate was the Ottomans. That's highly relevant. Remember the woman symbolised by the moon and sun and the flags?
So sorry... still skeptical.
Cool. Keep asking questions as long as you like. I just thought it might help you to consider some other approaches to augment your studies.
