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If, it was proven beyond all doubt that a god existed. Would you worship it?

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
As an atheist I think this is highly unlikely but for this thought experiment, let's assume that a god has revealed themselves to the world.

Now would you worship it?

I couldn't bring myself to do so; I'd be happy to say thanks for what I have but regularly get on my knees and give thanks, NO!

Thoughts.

God, if It exists, has set up the universe precisely so that we'd be unable to know whether or not It exists--in order to establish/maintain our all important free will which is the whole point of creating the universe. It really is that simple.
 
You don't understand, imagine eternity with the likes of Mother Teresa, The Popes and Archbishops, righteous evangelists. No, that would be hell.
Give me Jim Morrison, Lou Reed, Bowie, George Best, etc anytime

I understand that's the kind of thing people say when they don't believe in heaven or hell.

Saying you wouldn't care about a 100% certainty of eternal torment (which is not simply hanging out by the bar with some cool people you admired as a teenager), is the atheistic equivalent of being a 'keyboard tough guy' behind the safety of their own screen.

Your argument is that an omnipotent and omniscient God would be completely unaware that he is sending you to a place you would enjoy more than heaven as a punishment because he would be unable to design a place of perfect torment?

In reality, given your scenario, there is a 0% chance you wouldn't worship this god as you are not an idiot.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I understand that's the kind of thing people say when they don't believe in heaven or hell.

Saying you wouldn't care about a 100% certainty of eternal torment (which is not simply hanging out by the bar with some cool people you admired as a teenager), is the atheistic equivalent of being a 'keyboard tough guy' behind the safety of their own screen.

Your argument is that an omnipotent and omniscient God would be completely unaware that he is sending you to a place you would enjoy more than heaven as a punishment because he would be unable to design a place of perfect torment?

In reality, given your scenario, there is a 0% chance you wouldn't worship this god as you are not an idiot.
I worship no one.
I admire some people and applaud their work but worship, even Eric Cantona doesn't get that...although he is close.
 
I worship no one.
I admire some people and applaud their work but worship, even Eric Cantona doesn't get that...although he is close.

Again spoken as a secular humanist rather than the monotheist you are in your scenario.

Unless you genuinely believe you are as big a hardman as internet meme Chuck Norris to the extent you could not be intimidated by any horrific torture to do even a minor action, you are failing to deal with the logical implications of your own scenario or severely lack imagination.

Do you actually believe you are one of the biggest badasses in human history?
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
As an atheist I think this is highly unlikely but for this thought experiment, let's assume that a god has revealed themselves to the world.

Now would you worship it?

I couldn't bring myself to do so; I'd be happy to say thanks for what I have but regularly get on my knees and give thanks, NO!

Thoughts.

The idea of worshiping anything seems nonsensical to me. The idea that an all powerful being somehow needed or wanted such a thing also seems nonseneical.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Again spoken as a secular humanist rather than the monotheist you are in your scenario.

Unless you genuinely believe you are as big a hardman as internet meme Chuck Norris to the extent you could not be intimidated by any horrific torture to do even a minor action, you are failing to deal with the logical implications of your own scenario or severely lack imagination.

Do you actually believe you are one of the biggest badasses in human history?
No, but everyone tells me how loving and compassionate and forgiving this god is. Hell can't possibly be that bad.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
The idea of worshiping anything seems nonsensical to me. The idea that an all powerful being somehow needed or wanted such a thing also seems nonseneical.
You only have to look at Trump, Kim-Jong-in to realise how insecure these 'powerful' men are
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No, but everyone tells me how loving and compassionate and forgiving this god is. Hell can't possibly be that bad.

Interesting that you say that 'hell can't possible be that bad' because I find Jesus would agree with you.
The day righteous Jesus' died according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 dead Jesus went to biblical hell.
If the Bible's hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
When a friend of Jesus' died Jesus explained being dead is the same as being asleep at John 11:11-14.
So then, Jesus knew while he would be dead he would be in a sleep-like state until his God resurrected him.
Jesus learned that sleeping condition about the dead from the old Hebrew Scriptures.
( such as Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
Because of Jesus' faithful death is why Jesus has keys to unlock death and hell (grave) for us according to Revelation 1:18.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The idea of worshiping anything seems nonsensical to me. ..................

Whatever a person puts as first priority in one's life is their worship.
Some people look in the mirror and see their god.
As Philippians 3:19 says some people's god is their belly.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
As an atheist I think this is highly unlikely but for this thought experiment, let's assume that a god has revealed themselves to the world.
Now would you worship it?
Thoughts.

According to James 2:19 all of the spirit or angelic realm of existence know of God's existence.
So, God did reveal Himself to the angelic world of invisible creation.
Those fallen angels or demons do Not deny God's existence but simply choose Not to worship God.
Those fallen demons even acknowledge at Luke 4:41 that Jesus is God's pre-human heavenly Son.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
What are we calling a God for the purposes of this thread?
I could easily drift into Shaktism even now, despite doubting the literal existence of Shakti................................
.

For me it would be the ' one ' God of 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 who Jesus' addressed as our Heavenly Father.
Father as the word father means: life giver. The God of the Bible is our Father or Life Giver (Not life taker).
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
.............. If the god proves itself to be an objective, universally accepted good being, then I will at least acknowledge its presence as perhaps effectual of positive change in the world.

WoW, is there ever going to be a positive change in the world! With all the 'bad things' Jesus described for us at Matthew 24th chapter and Luke 21st chapter for us, I find Jesus also added the ' good news ' about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 being proclaimed on an international basis just as it is being accomplished world wide today.
Jesus, as head of God's kingdom government, will have an effectual positive change in today's world.
A BIG world wide change is coming as in the coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Executional words from Jesus' mouth, as described at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16, will rid the Earth of the wicked, and thus the humble meek people will inherit the Earth starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins. At this soon coming time there will be 'healing for Earth's nations' as described at Revelation 22:2.
 

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
WoW, is there ever going to be a positive change in the world! With all the 'bad things' Jesus described for us at Matthew 24th chapter and Luke 21st chapter for us, I find Jesus also added the ' good news ' about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 being proclaimed on an international basis just as it is being accomplished world wide today.
Jesus, as head of God's kingdom government, will have an effectual positive change in today's world.
A BIG world wide change is coming as in the coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Executional words from Jesus' mouth, as described at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16, will rid the Earth of the wicked, and thus the humble meek people will inherit the Earth starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth begins. At this soon coming time there will be 'healing for Earth's nations' as described at Revelation 22:2.

Too bad scripture is not evidence of anything except that fallible primitive men had elaborate imaginations.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
For me it would be the ' one ' God of 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 who Jesus' addressed as our Heavenly Father.
Father as the word father means: life giver. The God of the Bible is our Father or Life Giver (Not life taker).
By that yardstick... hard to tell. It feels so impossible to me.

I guess I would not. I don't even understand why such a God would want or accept worship.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
As an atheist I think this is highly unlikely but for this thought experiment, let's assume that a god has revealed themselves to the world.

Now would you worship it?

I couldn't bring myself to do so; I'd be happy to say thanks for what I have but regularly get on my knees and give thanks, NO!

Thoughts.


The demons believe and they tremble, not worshiping God
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The demons believe and they tremble, not worshiping God

I just thought of something. If demons know god exist and god is all loving, why would the tremble?

Since they know god exists and agnostics do not know yet both don't believe in god, god's existence in itself means nothing. Knowing one's existence isn't a reason or justification for worship. I'd think it goes beyond a person's existence. It's more whether the person wants to relate to their god. Many gods love, but people choose who they want to love in return.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
A common opinion of atheists seems to be that the Christian God must be evil because of the pain and suffering in the world. Surely an omnipotent God has the power to stop this, so if he does not stop it, he must be evil. I have two responses to this.

Actually, for me as an atheist, I can careless about the suffering. Atheist believe god does not exist. Why would an atheist question god's motive when he doesn't exist; unless they are just entertaining the idea that if he does, they wouldn't worship him because what is bluntly and directly written in the bible.

1. God has revealed in scripture why there is evil and suffering. This has been discussed so much, I'm not sure I need or should take the time to go through it here. I'll just make a couple of points. Free will is essential in God's plan. That leads to evil choices and the suffering of the innocent. People also suffer as the result of a dangerous world with disease and risk, not related to evil. Life is meant to be hard. Anything bad that happens in this life will be only a blink of the eye against the backdrop of forever. Even a horrible undeserved death caused by evil or natural disaster, is as a blessed birth into the next life into the arms of loving Parents and friends. God's perspective is eternal. He tries to share his perspective in the scriptures but at times we can't see past the hear and now.

Something I never liked about the free will argument with christians. Free will or freedom of choice should give you the choice and support from the person who gave you that choice for you to choose one side or another. If an atheist did choose not to find god, there should not be anything hold against him for the choice he was given to make. It makes more sense that there is no freedom of choice. If no freedom of choice exists, then god existence and our belief in him would be necessary to get out of a sticky dilemma. Unless god supports our choice not to follow him, especially those who do not believe he exists, free will means nothing.

Also, I'd think if god exist, it wouldn't just be the christian god. He is just more popular. People choose the god(s) they want to believe in for their benefit. Once a christian puts words in god's mouth, worshiping the christian god does not sound attractive anymore. It's more about self-exploration if freedom of choice is really a good thing.

2. The poinit I was making in my last post is that no matter how convinced someone is that the Christian God, if he exists, is evil, that perception will melt away in an instant when one is actually in God's presence. The person will realize how obviously wrong he was, and the need to ask "why" might go away all together. That's how I picture such a reunion of the Eternal Father with one of his children.

This can work the other way around. Once you realize (in analogy) god is not eternal, loving, and kind but a god of cruelty and evil, then you're faith would change to fear. The point isn't after-death it's now. If god is evil and you don't know it, and you benefit from how yo interpret god and what you read in scripture, nothing wrong with that. If god is all loving and an atheist benefits from unconditional love rather than conditional and they take what's actually written in scripture as a reason not to believe, nothing wrong with that.

My question is what would you do if you find out god was not a loving god.
My question to atheist would be what would you do if god was a loving god.

For some reason, I'd see more response from the theist tan th atheist. Atheist have love all their lives. They aren't missing anything unless you can describe love that is better than they have now. On the other hand, the theist would probably go into shock. But an evil god wouldn't care. A caring god would ideally understand why an atheist did not believe.

If this god has unconditional love, that is.
 

Meraki

New Member
I doubt it. It is more of an mystery for me for not knowing who he is. If it even is a "he".

But that's the point. To believe in something that is spirtual in ur sense. To follow rituals and daily duty that the specific religion has given you. Well, at least in my views, if i was fully devoted believer. I'm still doubting if he ever had an existence in this world. But those who believe in it will feel it, others won't. There is no conclusive argument of which side who has it right
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Too bad scripture is not evidence of anything except that fallible primitive men had elaborate imaginations.

What is imaginative about 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 describing these last days of badness on Earth before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

What is imaginative about Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 because exactly as Jesus said it would be done is being done.
There is nothing imaginative about good news about God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 which is Now proclaimed all over the world as never before in history. Even modern technology has made rapid Bible translation possible so that people even in remote areas can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native language. Do you know of anyone who never heard of the Bible. Nothing can stop that international proclaiming about God's kingdom to come and govern Earth in Peace. We are even told about the ' final signal ', so to speak, found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 that when ' they' (powers that be) will be saying," Peace and Security " that is the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth. So, you will find out that God's Word the Holy Bible is Not the fallible men's elaborate imaginations, but for the saving of righteous mankind.
 
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