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What a bad translation

Scrooge

certainty seeking
And the justice of God by faith of Jesus Christ to all and upon all believing: for there is no distinction:
(Rom 3:22)
With Romans 10:6-8 in mind how should verse 3:22 be translated and understood?

Jeremiah, Moses and Paul prophesied on just this to which is found in Romans 3:22.


Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, Our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; this is, THE WORD OF FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH.

And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD within you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will ) in you the hope of Glory


Romans 10:6-8 and Deut. 30:11-14 are speaking the same premise as of that which is found in Hebrews 8:10,11 and Jeremiah 31:33. It is just worded different. The Gospel, the New Covenant theme is interwoven throughout the Holy Writ; written various ways, believe.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
IMO it says the Christian by their faith in Jesus are equal to the Jews who follow the laws of the OT.

It removed any requirements for Christians to following any of the Jewish laws.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
And the justice of God by faith of Jesus Christ to all and upon all believing: for there is no distinction:
(Rom 3:22)
With Romans 10:6-8 in mind how should verse 3:22 be translated and understood?

Jeremiah, Moses and Paul prophesied on just this to which is found in Romans 3:22.
Romans 3:22 is speaking about abiding in Christ Jesus, and so it is unhealthy to read it as 'Faith'. This translation problem is partially caused by the shift of the word in meaning since the time the KJV was published, and that is down to Martin Luther's influence and is part of his bloodthirsty regime's gift to the world. He was the one who started the whole 'salvation by Faith alone' thing and twisted things pretty badly. Romans 10:6-8 is quoting from Habakkuk which is about Faithfulness, not faith though the underlying Greek word in Romans can be translated as either one.
edit: Habakkuk 2:4 is the quote
Romans 10:6-8 and Deut. 30:11-14 are speaking the same premise as of that which is found in Hebrews 8:10,11 and Jeremiah 31:33. It is just worded different. The Gospel, the New Covenant theme is interwoven throughout the Holy Writ; written various ways, believe.
Hebrews 8:10 quotes the book of Jeremiah, chapter 31:33, which is written specifically about the time the Jews are brought back into their land from Babylon. It is quoted in Hebrews not to indicate that it is predicting Jesus but to indicate that since the covenant can be upgraded once, it can be upgraded also to include more people (gentiles). That is the basis of Christianity. That being said a person must abide in that covenant. If they leave then they break it. It seems they can be restored, and I am not saying that they cannot be restored. Of course they can.
 

Scrooge

certainty seeking
IMO it says the Christian by their faith in Jesus are equal to the Jews who follow the laws of the OT.

It removed any requirements for Christians to following any of the Jewish laws.
Not so. The Word says,
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(Rom 3:31 KJV)
Through Faith; GOD's Commandments, the Word, Christ in our hearts and minds we establish the Law. This is the Faith to which we speak. And this is the Faith to which is spoken of in Romans.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Not so. The Word says,
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(Rom 3:31 KJV)
Through Faith; GOD's Commandments, the Word, Christ in our hearts and minds we establish the Law. This is the Faith to which we speak. And this is the Faith to which is spoken of in Romans.

And yet Christians don't follow Jewish law.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe this is better and it is only ASV:
Rom 3: 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
IMO it says the Christian by their faith in Jesus are equal to the Jews who follow the laws of the OT.

It removed any requirements for Christians to following any of the Jewish laws.

I believe that makes us very unequal because Jews were never able to keep the law (and still can't) but Christians can.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
Romans 10:6-8 and Deut. 30:11-14 are speaking the same premise as of that which is found in Hebrews 8:10,11 and Jeremiah 31:33. It is just worded different. The Gospel, the New Covenant theme is interwoven throughout the Holy Writ; written various ways, believe.

D e u t 30:11-14 is a direct refutation of Christian assertions that 1) we need an intermediary and 2) G-d's Law is too difficult to be followed.

For this commandment which I command you this day, is not concealed from you, nor is it far away. It is not in heaven, that you should say, "Who will go up to heaven for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "Who will cross to the other side of the sea for us and fetch it for us, to tell [it] to us, so that we can fulfill it?" Rather,[this] thing is very close to you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can fulfill it.

G-d through Moses tells the Hebrews that they can follow His Law on their own.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Jewish law? No such thing. GOD's laws; the Decalogue and any law pertaining to morality needs to be fulfilled in a Christian or they are not a Christian.

Filed under Christian opinion number 532.
 

Scrooge

certainty seeking
I believe this is better and it is only ASV:
Rom 3: 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
Why? Here is a interlinear translation. Compare it to the ASV Muffled. ASV translation is not even close. It is a paraphrase and not a good one at that.


Rom 3:22
δικαιοσυνη G1343 RIGHTEOUSNESS
δε G1161 EVEN OF
θεου G2316 GOD
δια G1223 THROUGH
πιστεως G4102 FAITH OF
ιησου G2424 JESUS
χριστου G5547 CHRIST,
εις G1519 INTO
παντας G3956 ALL
και G2532 AND
επι G1909 UPON
παντας G3956 ALL
τους G3588 THOSE THAT
πιστευοντας G4100 BELIEVE :
ου G3756 NO
γαρ G1063 FOR
εστιν G2076 THERE
διαστολη G1293 DIFFERENCE :
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
So this is what you post when you can't prove a post wrong?
Noted.

This is what I post when every Christian I talk to provides a different answer.

I mean, even if I were to agree with you, I'd run into another Christian telling me I was wrong.
 

Scrooge

certainty seeking
Romans 3:22 is speaking about abiding in Christ Jesus, and so it is unhealthy to read it as 'Faith'.
Actually there is no mention of any abiding in Christ Jesus in that verse.
Romans 3:22 should be translated something like this, Yet the righteousness of GOD through Faith of Jesus Christ into all and upon all that believe.... The post to Muffled above shows why it should be. The Strong's concordance reference numbers are provided so that any that wish can see for themselves.

Faith is define in the BDAG lexicon as a "...state of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted, trust, confidence, faith in the active sense=‘believing’..."

It is salvation by Faith. However not our faith; Jesus Christ's faith. Christ in in us the expectation of glory. For we are dead nevertheless we live, yet not us but Christ liveth and the life we now live in the flesh we now live by the faith of the Son of GOD.
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the word,commandments ) down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word,commandments ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ, commandments) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

Faith is trust Romans 10:6-8 is quoting from Habakkuk which is about Faithfulness, not faith though the underlying Greek word in Romans can be translated as either one.
edit: Habakkuk 2:4 is the quote
I don't know why you think Romans 10 is quoting Habakkuk 2:4. It is quoting Deut. 30:11-14. That is why there should be no qualms with the inserting of commandments in the above quotation of Romans 10:6-8. Christ, the word, and the Commandments are synonymous in this instance. The verses in Romans 10 are defining what faith is. It is having Christ, the word, the commandments in our hearts and mouths that we do it, that is the word of faith in which we are to preach.

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:11-14 KJV)
 

Scrooge

certainty seeking
And yet they use Jewish text. I could never figure that one out.

It's like they stole it laughing bwahahaha!!!

I can finally make a religion!!!
There is no such thing as Jewish Law; it is GOD'S Law. And Yes Christians do follow GOD'S LAW. They are Christ like. They can't help it.
 
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