How would the Native Americans be living without European expansion in America

Augustus · Oct 25, 2017

Sooner or later, they would probably have industrialised themselves via trade and interaction. It's not like countries who were not colonised remain idyllic natural paradises to this day.

One thing that they would want to trade from the Europeans would be industrial era weaponry. The tribes who traded more and industrialised more effectively would have better weapons, and throughput human history, having more powerful military forces than your neighbours has been a very big incentive to take their lands off them and increase your own power.

Military tech is the ultimate in 'keeping up with the Joneses', you need to do whatever is necessary to keep pace with those around you.

Kuzcotopia · Oct 25, 2017

Augustus said:
Sooner or later, they would probably have industrialised themselves via trade and interaction. It's not like countries who were not colonised remain idyllic natural paradises to this day.

One thing that they would want to trade from the Europeans would be industrial era weaponry. The tribes who traded more and industrialised more effectively would have better weapons, and throughput human history, having more powerful military forces than your neighbours has been a very big incentive to take their lands off them and increase your own power.

Military tech is the ultimate in 'keeping up with the Joneses', you need to do whatever is necessary to keep pace with those around you.

This is true. One example of this was horses. When indigenous American tribes drove out Spanish-Mexican settlers, they left their horses behind. This minor advancement spread into many nations, completely transforming much about their cultures, and redrawing the map of power. They were a tremendous military advantage over rival tribes, and sent many backwards, as hunting became easier on horseback than the labor-intensive, but ultimately more stable, agriculture.

Wirey · Oct 25, 2017

Kuzcotopia said:
Probably not. There are very specific environmental and social pressures that produce such change. There's no reason to believe that all the prerequisite baselines would be in place, which range from acess to resources, certain agricultural advancements, cultural focus on education, the cultural force of the neoclassical renaissance, class systems, preindustrial commerce, printing presses . . . Man, this is a random list of requirements I could spent forever compiling.

There's a great book that attempts to explain the myriad factors that produced the advantages of technology, and adresses why some cultursa established the socio-economic preconditions necessary for cultural speed, and why others didn't. Worth the read.

Guns, Germs, and Steel - Wikipedia

https://www.colorado.edu/geography/class_homepages/geog_4732_fa07/GunsGerms&Steel.PDF

The book for free. It's fantastic.

Spiderman · Oct 25, 2017

Saint Frankenstein said:
What is the point of your obviously racist question?

I actually admire the Native American way of life and the shaman spirituality as well is very attractive and interesting to me.

They might not have invented much, but it still is a fascinating way of life.

I was just curious as to what other people would say on the topic.

Valjean · Oct 25, 2017

sayak83 said:
Umm trade with Europeans of course. They would have traded all that silver to become prosperous and start their own iron works etc.

But most of them were prosperous -- and healthy. Europe, on the other hand, was a pestilent, roiling land of constant war -- driving technology and rabid competition. It was a land of massive income inequality, where most of the population lived short, squalid, insecure lives while the aristocracy competed with each other in conspicuous consumption and ostentation.

Valjean · Oct 25, 2017

PopeADope said:
I actually admire the Native American way of life and the shaman spirituality as well is very attractive and interesting to me.

They might not have invented much, but it still is a fascinating way of life.

I was just curious as to what other people would say on the topic.

There was no "Native American way of life." Unlike Europe, which was comparatively homogenous, culturally, the Americas were a crazy-quilt of very different cultures and languages.

Super Universe · Oct 25, 2017

PopeADope said:
I heard a Native American say recently that he is glad the white man conquered America, because without it they would still be living in teepees, pooping on the ground, and have poor health care and no checks from the government.

Do you think the Native Americans would have figured out how to invent planes, Trains, Automobiles, computers, and modern medicine without European influence?

They would have been conquered by someone.

Would they have figured out modern inventions on their own? Not even anything close.

Super Universe · Oct 25, 2017

Nowhere Man said:
I've heard many Native Americans say that if they were in charge we would still have clean air and water.

I think advancement is still in the eye of the beholder. All the same I like to think native peoples would have done quite well for themselves. Various Nations on more than one occasion have reminded us that they are still here.

If native americans were in charge we would have clean air and water? Each tent had it's own campfire inside. That's not clean air.

And they did not treat their waste so if you lived downstream from another tribe you got their waste.

How would the Native Americans be living without European expansion in America

Would Native Americans have discovered electricity, light bulbs, automobiles, or computers

Yes

No

Augustus

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Super Universe

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