How are these Great Beings explained?

TransmutingSoul · Oct 24, 2017

oldbadger said:
These half hearted suggestions that I am a wicked member to post my truths ...... are pathetic, imo.

Have you judged them wicked? All I said is God knows our intent, thus if you have good intent well done. I do not judge the intent.

I am mostly silent on the inaccuracy.

I like from a Baha'i Perspective that we search all the Great Beings and look for the common good.

It would be great to talk about that.

Regards Tony

Dawnofhope · Oct 25, 2017

siti said:
Indeed - but you didn't answer the question - I asked what a Baha'i economy would look like - you gave me links that talk about a just system of government.

An economy is inseparable from the people who use it (everyone), those involved in governance, and even the environment. What we are talking about is an economy of a world commonwealth that has become predominately Baha'i. So we are talking about a distant future and understandably there is widespread cynicism and scepticism that a relatively small faith community could one day become the main world religion.

Before that we have what we have now, which is a world commonwealth without a Baha'i government. What we have now actually has many positives but many problems and one of the links I sent you highlighted some of those difficulties. The economy we have is a world economy. Its just not the economy that humanity has consciously chosen but come about as a result of decisions that we have failed to make collectively.

A few of my personal musings that I could justify from a Baha'i perspective. There will be essential points I have missed and maybe one or two points that shouldn't be there. Anyhow:

The economy of the future will have a single global currently.

Citizens, communities, nations, and governing institutions will be much more concerned for the well being of all.

Individual and community initiatives for the betterment of all will be more valued and supported.

Resources will be more fairly distributed.

We will have a progressive tax system.

There will be higher levels of profit sharing.

There will be a more cohesive and fair welfare system.

Education and the requirement to contribute to the community through work will be universal.

Those involved in government will be more sensitive to the needs of the community and much more connected to their fellow citizen, their hopes their aspirations.

Industrial relationships will be better and there will be more sharing of profits.

The most capable people (including moral capacity) will be elected to power.

There would be both decentralisation of resources and more cohesive international governing bodies. The roles and functions of National governments would alter and may be diminished as a result.

I hope this is a more useful essay for you.

Baha'i Faith and economics

siti said:
Of course the Baha'i administration doesn't have an economy such as the nations of the world currently have or the global "promised land" would need to have. How would that work?

We don't, but we do require finances to support the activities of an international faith community of over 5 million Baha'is.

siti said:
You say you dislike communism but how else could a single global economic entity function?

I don't see why communism is a prerequisite for a global economic entity. We already have global economic entities with the International monetary fund and world bank amidst other institutions.

siti said:
There would be no place (presumably) for the free market - there would be no market at all except that by which each human obtained what they needed

I can not see a future economy preventing individual initiative. What we have at present isn't a 'free' market in that there are rules and regulations. There has to be. The nature of those rules and regulations will have to change but ultimately the paradigm shift in values and culture will change and be a more significant factor.

siti said:
So what? Would the shrewdest marketeers be allowed to amass personal wealth? What would stop them?

More cohesive international agencies. The major corporations often pay little tax in many countries where they are based. People in the future will be less driven to achieve the extremes of wealth that some have now. One survey recently found the wealthiest eight people in the world own the same as the poorest 50 % of the worlds population.

The world’s eight richest men own as much as the poorest 50%

siti said:
And what would stop groups of the wealthy conglomerating in order to maximize their collective economic success?

Same as above.

siti said:
Of course they could only achieve wealth by maximizing profit which also minimizes the value of the financial resources of the less well-heeled - how would a united world economy prevent the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer (by comparison)?

I am not an economist and finance is not my forte. I understand that trickle down economic theory is highly problematic. Clearly there needs to be financial reward for efforts otherwise we have the failures of communism.

siti said:
If it cannot then you have a capitalist system - and if it does then you have a communist one because there is no way that it is "just" for the children of a wealthy man to have plenty whilst the children of a poor man go hungry - regardless of the reason for the disparity. So which is it? Is a Baha'i economy capitalist or communist?

When the time comes for a better future world we need to take the learning of the past into the future. Clearly there are positives in both systems that will inform decision making in the future.

Dawnofhope · Oct 25, 2017

siti said:
In that case, I'm sorry to tell you, you have zero chance of ever ruling the world. So much for the envisioned new world order. On the other hand, if you abandon democracy in favour of theocracy, then there is a precedent for that. Of the current modern-day theocracies you can choose between two models - Saudi Arabia or the Vatican. Which of these do you suppose the Baha'i world order would most resemble?

You forgot the theocracy that the orthodox Jews want to resurrect.....Oh...and then there's the Baha'i theocracy. Does that count as another model?

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

adrian009 said:
No. I just found it ironic that the best you could do was to find a letter 50 years old that has little to do with the point you are making.

My point was clear. Bahai can cherry-pick from writings to suit the moment.
Is that what you are doing now?

As you have suddenly become an expert in the Baha'i faith, you tell me the doctrine the letter is espousing.

Those little personal digs, the veiled criticisms, they show me when you are on the ropes. OK, quid pro quo.......
I'm no expert in Bahai, but I over this last year or so I've come to believe that you have not known it well, either, after all those years sitting on LSAs. What were you doing?

Its like reading tea leaves I suppose, where we see what we want to. I think you are reading into that letter things that are not really there. If you want to provide a genuine analysis, post the entire letter and the context as a starting point. Its easy to take a few lines out of context.

Tea Leaves, eh?
The above a reference to the fact that I'm open minded and visited a Healer? You're showing your prejudice.
It was a letter from your Universal House of Justice, and because you didn't like it you think it's like reading tea leaves?
....a genuine analysis required.......
..........this is what it's going to be like in a Bahai World, then, where folks can totally ignore the writings as they wish. A very dangerous place that would be. You do accept that Bahai would run an international police force? That's probably a military standard force, surely?
The whole content of the letter, I expect it is from your archives, but I've had copy for yonks now:-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bahá'ís recognize the right and duty of governments to use force for the maintenance of law and order and to protect their people. Thus, for a Bahá'í, the shedding of blood for such a purpose is not necessarily essentially wrong.

The Bahá'í Faith draws a very definite distinction between the duty of an individual to forgive and "to be killed rather than to kill" and the duty of society to uphold justice. This matter is explained by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in Some Answered Questions.

In the present condition of the world Bahá'ís try to keep themselves out of the internecine conflicts that are raging among their fellow men and to avoid shedding blood in such struggles, but this does not mean that we are absolute pacifists.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated February 9, 1967, to a National Spiritual Assembly

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Have you judged them wicked? All I said is God knows our intent, thus if you have good intent well done. I do not judge the intent.

I am mostly silent on the inaccuracy.

Very well then.................
Although I don't believe that God has the slightest interest in what our intent might be. I'm a Deist!

I like from a Baha'i Perspective that we search all the Great Beings and look for the common good.

It would be great to talk about that.

So, would you like to talk about the OTHER Great Beings?

OK....... Jesus, or Yeshua BarYosef would be closer to the name because Jesus was first written into bibles in the 15th or 16th century.

Have you seen the list of disagreements about 'Jesus' between Bahais and most Christians? That list makes plain that Bahais do not think that Jesus was a Great Being at all.
Don't tell me, do you want me to copy and repost that list for you?

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
I hate long posts, so let's just give one example for number 1 'Orwellian Double-Think' just to get going.

Ask an average Bahai if s/he could join a military or law enforcemrent service as a combatant and most will reply 'No!'
Now read this letter from the UHJ to a National Spiritual Assembly:-
-----------------------------------------------------
"Bahá'ís recognize the right and duty of governments to use force for the maintenance of law and order and to protect their people. Thus, for a Bahá'í, the shedding of blood for such a purpose is not necessarily essentially wrong.
Deleted irrelevant para..........
In the present condition of the world Bahá'ís try to keep themselves out of the internecine conflicts that are raging among their fellow men and to avoid shedding blood in such struggles, but this does not mean that we are absolute pacifists.

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated February 9, 1967, to a National Spiritual Assembly
----------------------------------------------

I don't go out of my way to post this stuff, only when I'm challenged, but the posts which Orwellian Double Think could go on quite a way.....

Well you asked me and I gave you an answer to this.

The Bahai Law has the Death Penalty, thus if it was given in the future, then a person needs to carry out the sentance.

On the war against Drugs, Abdul'Baha has said all methods can be used to rid the world of those pernicious substances.

I have informed you about military service and the choices we are faced with.

What is actually the point you want to make?

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
Have you seen the list of disagreements about 'Jesus' between Bahais and most Christians? That list makes plain that Bahais do not think that Jesus was a Great Being at all.

Your observarions again do not reflect the Bahai position and the way Baha'is feel about Christ. These passages say it how it is. This is how we feel;

Baha’u’llah wrote:

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified… We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

Additionally, Shoghi Effendi re-confirms the Baha’i Faith’s belief in Christ by stating:

"…the Faith of Baha’u’llah – if we would faithfully appraise it – can never, and in no aspect of its teachings, be at variance, much less conflict, with the purpose animating, or the authority invested in, the Faith of Jesus Christ…As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized… The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Baha’u’llah as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth”

No list needed.

Regards Tony

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Well you asked me and I gave you an answer to this.
The Bahai Law has the Death Penalty, thus if it was given in the future, then a person needs to carry out the sentance.

Tony, you clearly don't know your own faith's tenets. Bahais can take up arms and use deadly force when it might suit the UHJ to order this.
It's just another of those cherry-picked tenets.
You'll need references for further reading and enlightenment from the Divine Words of your God, written by His Ordained Messengers:-
http://bahai-library.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5210
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/bahais-and-military-service/
and...............................
" Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. ...................." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,

On the war against Drugs, Abdul'Baha has said all methods can be used to rid the world of those pernicious substances.

A whole cocktail of drugs saved my wife's life in 2014.
The Western World is moving to de-legislate many drug laws.

I have informed you about military service and the choices we are faced with.

What is actually the point you want to make?

Regards Tony

You still cannot see my point. :facepalm:

I suspect that some other readers will..........

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Your observarions again do not reflect the Bahai position and the way Baha'is feel about Christ. These passages say it how it is. This is how we feel;

Baha’u’llah wrote:

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified… We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

No list needed.

Regards Tony

There.............
Even Bahauallah writes that Jesus was not resurrected, did not carry out miracles, was/is not the son of God etc etc all hidden within beautiful prose...........
Most of the list is in that passage!
Bahais don't believe that Jesus was a Great Being.
:shrug:

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
Tony, you clearly don't know your own faith's tenets.

What did I tell you that is wrong? I read quickly through Sens article and His Thoughts. How was my advice different?

I have given brief but accurate advice.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
A whole cocktail of drugs saved my wife's life in 2014.
The Western World is moving to de-legislate many drug laws.

Again you are may not aware that drug use prescribed by a doctor is lawful in the Baha'i Faith.

Recreational use of drugs is a soul destroying, communuty and humanity destroying pernicious activity, including the use of hashish. I am happy that a hard line can be taken ro change this and the low life that live of this trade. A big, if, they do not change of their own will peacefully.

Is that strong enough? Alcohol has detroyed many generations in the town where I live and still it continues.

Regards Tony

Dawnofhope · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
My point was clear. Bahai can cherry-pick from writings to suit the moment.
Is that what you are doing now?

No

oldbadger said:
Those little personal digs, the veiled criticisms, they show me when you are on the ropes. OK, quid pro quo.......

Not a personal dig but an observation. You are posting a great deal of incorrect information about the Baha'i Faith. I'm a little perplexed as to what prompted this.

oldbadger said:
I'm no expert in Bahai, but I over this last year or so I've come to believe that you have not known it well, either, after all those years sitting on LSAs. What were you doing?

Its correct that you are no expert on the Baha'i Faith.

oldbadger said:
Tea Leaves, eh?
The above a reference to the fact that I'm open minded and visited a Healer? You're showing your prejudice.

I have no problem with you visiting a healer. I'm pleased to hear the positive news about your health.

The tea leaves was just using a metaphor and no personal attack intended.

oldbadger said:
..........this is what it's going to be like in a Bahai World, then, where folks can totally ignore the writings as they wish. A very dangerous place that would be.

I'm suggesting we carefully consider what is written, not ignore it.

oldbadger said:
You do accept that Bahai would run an international police force? That's probably a military standard force, surely?

In case you haven't noticed we already have an international police force. Its called the United Nations Peace keeping force and it acts at the behest of the United Nations. Its a necessity of maintaining international law and order, as a national or local police force is required.

oldbadger said:
The whole content of the letter, I expect it is from your archives, but I've had copy for yonks now:-

Cool.

Lets consider the date and who it is addressed to:

oldbadger said:
etter from the Universal House of Justice, dated February 9, 1967, to a National Spiritual Assembly

1967 is when the Vietnam war was happening, so although the NSA is not specified, its probably USA as there was the issue of compulsory conscription. That put Baha'is in a difficult position. On the one hand there is Baha'u'llah's injunction not to kill, on the otherhand the duty to be a law abiding citizen. So what do Baha'is do? They can ask not to be conscripted or ask for a position that does not involve killing another human being like being a medic. What if the government still says, sorry but we need you on the front line and that is what you must do. Does the Baha'i say "No" or is he obedient to the government and agrees?

oldbadger said:
"Bahá'ís recognize the right and duty of governments to use force for the maintenance of law and order and to protect their people. Thus, for a Bahá'í, the shedding of blood for such a purpose is not necessarily essentially wrong.

This phrase is simply saying sometimes governments are justified in the use of force for defensive purposes, and under such a circumstance killing is not necessarily wrong.

oldbadger said:
The Bahá'í Faith draws a very definite distinction between the duty of an individual to forgive and "to be killed rather than to kill" and the duty of society to uphold justice. This matter is explained by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in Some Answered Questions.

The Universal House of Justice highlights the moral dilemma.

oldbadger said:
In the present condition of the world Bahá'ís try to keep themselves out of the internecine conflicts that are raging among their fellow men and to avoid shedding blood in such struggles, but this does not mean that we are absolute pacifists.

Baha'is should avoid becoming involved in wars such as these but sometimes circumstances make such avoidance impossible.

oldbadger said:
etter from the Universal House of Justice, dated February 9, 1967, to a National Spiritual Assembly

Any National government can choose laws that require its citizens to participate in armed conflict. Baha'u'llah brings teachings to assist humanity reconcile conflicts, not create them.

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
There.............
Even Bahauallah writes that Jesus was not resurrected, did not carry out miracles, was/is not the son of God etc etc all hidden within beautiful prose...........
Most of the list is in that passage!
Bahais don't believe that Jesus was a Great Being.

Again this is not correct, these are passages that are compatible with what the Bible Says

"As to the resurrection of the body of Christ three days subsequent to His departure: This signifies the divine teachings and spiritual religion of His Holiness Christ, which constitute His spiritual body, which is living and perpetual forevermore.
By the "three days' of His death is meant that after the great martyrdom, the penetration of the divine teachings and the spread of the spiritual law became relaxed on account of the crucifixion of Christ. For the disciples were somewhat troubled by the violence of divine tests. But when they become firm, that divine spirit resurrected and that body - which signifies the divine word - arose." Compilations : Extracts Concerning the Resurrection.

MIRACLES

"Question. -- It is recorded that miracles were performed by Christ. Are the reports of these miracles really to be accepted literally, or have they another meaning? It has been proved by exact science that the essence of things does not change, and that all beings are under one universal law and organization from which they cannot deviate; and, therefore, that which is contrary to universal law is impossible.
Answer. -- The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared.
But in the Holy Books an especial terminology is employed, and for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent." Abdu'l-Baha : Some Answered Questions

This is reflected in the Bible; " Luke 5:13Jesus reached out His hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” He said, “be clean!” And immediately the leprosy left him. 14“Do not tell anyone, Jesus instructed him. “But go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering Moses prescribed for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.”

As to Son of God - "Let us make a comparison with the days of Christ. He had eleven disciples only, for the twelfth was the cause of his crucifixion. The leader of the apostles was Peter and on the night of the crucifixion his faith was shaken and he thrice denied Christ, through afterwards he became firm.
All were shaken but Mary Magdalen. She was a veritable lioness. She gathered the others together and said, "Why do ye mourn? Did not the Christ foretell his crucifixion? Arise, and be assured. They have killed but the body; the reality can never die, for it is supreme, eternal, the word of God, the son of God. Why, therefore, are ye agitated?" Thus this heroine became the cause of re-establishing the faith of the apostles.
My hope is that each one of you may become as Mary Magdalen - for this woman was superior to all the men of her time and her reality is ever shining from the horizon of Christ.
Be pure - to be pure is to be selfless." Abdu'l-Baha : Divine Philosophy

Thus agreement with the bible is again shown.

Regards Tony

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
What did I tell you that is wrong? I read quickly through Sens article and His Thoughts. How was my advice different?
I have given brief but accurate advice.
Regards Tony

Bahais can join a Police Force in a Bahai World, and use deadly force of necessary.
And so Bahai should support armed police today, methinks.
Is that your advice?

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Again you are may not aware that drug use prescribed by a doctor is lawful in the Baha'i Faith.

For my further education and interest, could I see Bahauallah's writing about that? I don't disagree with that, I just need to file it.

Recreational use of drugs is a soul destroying, communuty and humanity destroying pernicious activity, including the use of hashish. I am happy that a hard line can be taken ro change this and the low life that live of this trade. A big, if, they do not change of their own will peacefully.

De-legislation ends the drug trade, finishes off the drug barons, produces billions in taxation etc...... The West is moving to repeal many drug laws.
This, again is a sign that the Western World is moving away from Bahai tenets.

Is that strong enough? Alcohol has detroyed many generations in the town where I live and still it continues.

Regards Tony

That's worth a new thread, really.
I don't know how many die a year from alcohol misuse in,say, the US, but gun suicides and motor deaths are huge stats.

I drink about 15 units of alcohol each week.
Doctors here often recommend it without having to prescribe it.

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

adrian009 said:
No

Not a personal dig but an observation. You are posting a great deal of incorrect information about the Baha'i Faith. I'm a little perplexed as to what prompted this.

That's what you say..............

The tea leaves was just using a metaphor and no personal attack intended.

That was a serious mistake imo.
Even the vaguest link from 'Spiritual' to 'Tea-Leaf reading' if picked up on by a cynical (rather than skeptical, like me) member, could result in those very terms being linked to LSAs and NSAs.

In case you haven't noticed we already have an international police force. Its called the United Nations Peace keeping force and it acts at the behest of the United Nations. Its a necessity of maintaining international law and order, as a national or local police force is required.

Oh please! I remember Bosnia!
I remember the Iraq wars of the noughties.

The United Nations is a fine organisation, and can, at times, need to use deadly force, and since such a force would exist in a Bahai World, then Bahais are not pacifists and can fight in actions.
Full stop.
Just fremember to state that clearly, is my suggestion.

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
Bahais can join a Police Force in a Bahai World, and use deadly force of necessary.
And so Bahai should support armed police today, methinks.
Is that your advice?

Already answered - It is each persons choice.

Personally I will protect others if needed to the extent required. For myself and if there is no authority to call upon, then I would decide what to do on the Given Situation, time permitting.

If it is a choice of rejecting Faith, Faith wins.

Regards Tony

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Again this is not correct, these are passages that are compatible with what the Bible Says

"As to the resurrection of the body of Christ three days subsequent to His departure: This signifies the divine teachings and spiritual religion of His Holiness Christ, which constitute His spiritual body, which is living and perpetual forevermore.
By the "three days' of His death is meant that after the great martyrdom, the penetration of the divine teachings and the spread of the spiritual law became relaxed on account of the crucifixion of Christ. For the disciples were somewhat troubled by the violence of divine tests. But when they become firm, that divine spirit resurrected and that body - which signifies the divine word - arose." Compilations : Extracts Concerning the Resurrection.

MIRACLES

"Question. -- It is recorded that miracles were performed by Christ. Are the reports of these miracles really to be accepted literally, or have they another meaning? It has been proved by exact science that the essence of things does not change, and that all beings are under one universal law and organization from which they cannot deviate; and, therefore, that which is contrary to universal law is impossible.
Answer. -- The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared.
But in the Holy Books an especial terminology is employed, and for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent." Abdu'l-Baha : Some Answered Questions

This is reflected in the Bible; " Luke 5:13Jesus reached out His hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” He said, “be clean!” And immediately the leprosy left him. 14“Do not tell anyone, Jesus instructed him. “But go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering Moses prescribed for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.”

As to Son of God - "Let us make a comparison with the days of Christ. He had eleven disciples only, for the twelfth was the cause of his crucifixion. The leader of the apostles was Peter and on the night of the crucifixion his faith was shaken and he thrice denied Christ, through afterwards he became firm.
All were shaken but Mary Magdalen. She was a veritable lioness. She gathered the others together and said, "Why do ye mourn? Did not the Christ foretell his crucifixion? Arise, and be assured. They have killed but the body; the reality can never die, for it is supreme, eternal, the word of God, the son of God. Why, therefore, are ye agitated?" Thus this heroine became the cause of re-establishing the faith of the apostles.
My hope is that each one of you may become as Mary Magdalen - for this woman was superior to all the men of her time and her reality is ever shining from the horizon of Christ.
Be pure - to be pure is to be selfless." Abdu'l-Baha : Divine Philosophy

Thus agreement with the bible is again shown.

Regards Tony

OMG!
Abdul Baha has refuted or changed the words of Bahauallah! Now read again what Bahauallah wrote.
Take your pick. Cherry-pick away. :shrug:

Baha’u’llah wrote:
"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified… We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him."

oldbadger · Oct 25, 2017

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Already answered - It is each persons choice.

Personally I will protect others if needed to the extent required. For myself and if there is no authority to call upon, then I would decide what to do on the Given Situation, time permitting.

If it is a choice of rejecting Faith, Faith wins.

Regards Tony

So you would use deadly force if the circumstances demanded?
Yes?

TransmutingSoul · Oct 25, 2017

oldbadger said:
For my further education and interest, could I see Bahauallah's writing about that? I don't disagree with that, I just need to file it.

This link and the note at bottom of the page, this note would have a reference elsewhere, see if I can find the writing - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 238-239

Regards Tony

How are these Great Beings explained?

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