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Classic: Richard Dawkins' Response to "What if You're Wrong?"

Q

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Deeje said:
Prophesy, when it is unfolding before our eyes is hard to deny. I believe that we are living in "the Lord's Day" as described in Revelation. It is "the time of the end" that was also prophesied in the book of Daniel over 2,500 years ago. (Daniel 12:9-10) Daniel gave us a timeline of world powers that especially interacted with Israel, beginning with Babylon. It takes us through successive kingdoms in a direct line, all the way to the Anglo-American world power. The line ends with them. This is what Daniel said would happen in the time of those final ruling powers.....

Daniel 2:44:
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever"

Jesus also gave a sign to show when the last days began.....

Matthew 24:3:
"While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

He went on to relate all the things that would indicate that this present system is about to come to an end.
It began with unprecedented warfare, (WW1) followed by food shortages, great earthquakes, disease, increase in lawlessness and the quality of love disappearing from the world. The world has been in a steady decline since 1914.

The apostle Paul told Timothy.....
"But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these." (2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)

It is no surprise at all that things are looking grim. Nation after nation is in political turmoil. Humanity are loosing faith in their leaders and in man's ability to rectify his mistakes. Corrupt leaders and greed are ruining lives in the majority of nations. The rich are getting richer and the poor are forgotten.
Children die of starvation whilst others are dying from obesity.

Love is not seen in all the places where it used to be......families and neighborhoods. Nobody cares anymore. Parents have lost control of their children. Children have been granted rights but have no responsibility. Selfishness has reached new heights. I hate where this has led us.

Are you confident of the future in man's hands? I'm not.....I would rather put myself in Gods hands. I am confident that he knows what he's doing.
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The problem with prophecy is that it's so vague it can apply to virtually anything. Gullible people have been reading those same prophecies for 2000 years, imagining that it all applied to what was happening in their lives at the time.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
I didn't see the narrow thinking behind the question.
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I see three main possibilities for the woman asking the question:

1. She's answered the question for herself about the gods she doesn't believe in.
2. She's decided that the question isn't worth asking about the gods she doesn't believe in.
3. It hasn't occurred to her that this is even something she should be asking about the gods she doesn't believe in.

Edit: presumably, she also figured that her question was one worth asking. Combine that with any of the possibilities above and we have some sort of narrow-mindedness.

If somebody were to ask me, "What if you're wrong," I'd have a straightforward answer.
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But if someone were to ask you, it wouldn't be in the context of someone presenting what they think is a "gotcha" that establishes that theism is better than atheism. It made perfect sense for Dawkins to address that assumption in his response.
 
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12jtartar

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
For my 500th post, I thought I would link to this brief, brilliant video from 2006 in which Dr. Dawkins responds to the classic question and gives a simple, succinct, and brilliant answer.

Click to expand...

Hubert Farnsworth,
For a person even to ask this question, proves to me, that He is lost, and needs to find The Way, Acts 9:2, 19:9,23, 22:4. There is only one way to Salvation, Acts 4:10-12.
Have you ever noticed the information contained in 1Corinthians about man’s knowledge?? 1Corinthians 1:19-25, 2:6-15, 3:18-20.
It is impossible for man to even realize just how much wiser God is than men, Isaiah 55:8,9. Even the unbelievable heavens are just the edges of God’s creation, Job 26:14. Mankind cannot understand God’s creation, they are too wonderful, Job 37:5!!
Is any man PERFECT in knowledge!!! The Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name in English is Perfect in knowledge, Job 36:4, 37:16. Is any man greater than oil God, Job 40:8,9, 42:2.
Why pretend to be wise in this world, and die before you would, Ecclesiastes 7:16,17.
When you die, what chance does an unbeliever have of living again?? John 5:26-29, Proverbs 11:7, 9- The mouth of the wicked tries to destroy his neighbor, but knowledge will deliver him!!!
Does an unbeliever know what he talks about?? 1Corinthians 8:1-3.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
12jtartar said:
Hubert Farnsworth,
For a person even to ask this question, proves to me, that He is lost, and needs to find The Way, Acts 9:2, 19:9,23, 22:4. There is only one way to Salvation, Acts 4:10-12.
Have you ever noticed the information contained in 1Corinthians about man’s knowledge?? 1Corinthians 1:19-25, 2:6-15, 3:18-20.
It is impossible for man to even realize just how much wiser God is than men, Isaiah 55:8,9. Even the unbelievable heavens are just the edges of God’s creation, Job 26:14. Mankind cannot understand God’s creation, they are too wonderful, Job 37:5!!
Is any man PERFECT in knowledge!!! The Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name in English is Perfect in knowledge, Job 36:4, 37:16. Is any man greater than oil God, Job 40:8,9, 42:2.
Why pretend to be wise in this world, and die before you would, Ecclesiastes 7:16,17.
When you die, what chance does an unbeliever have of living again?? John 5:26-29, Proverbs 11:7, 9- The mouth of the wicked tries to destroy his neighbor, but knowledge will deliver him!!!
Does an unbeliever know what he talks about?? 1Corinthians 8:1-3.
Click to expand...
If he is lost, the last thing he needs is more religion.

Give him a good science book or detective novel, buy him a beer or two.
 
Rational Agnostic

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
12jtartar said:
Hubert Farnsworth,
For a person even to ask this question, proves to me, that He is lost, and needs to find The Way, Acts 9:2, 19:9,23, 22:4. There is only one way to Salvation, Acts 4:10-12.
Have you ever noticed the information contained in 1Corinthians about man’s knowledge?? 1Corinthians 1:19-25, 2:6-15, 3:18-20.
It is impossible for man to even realize just how much wiser God is than men, Isaiah 55:8,9. Even the unbelievable heavens are just the edges of God’s creation, Job 26:14. Mankind cannot understand God’s creation, they are too wonderful, Job 37:5!!
Is any man PERFECT in knowledge!!! The Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name in English is Perfect in knowledge, Job 36:4, 37:16. Is any man greater than oil God, Job 40:8,9, 42:2.
Why pretend to be wise in this world, and die before you would, Ecclesiastes 7:16,17.
When you die, what chance does an unbeliever have of living again?? John 5:26-29, Proverbs 11:7, 9- The mouth of the wicked tries to destroy his neighbor, but knowledge will deliver him!!!
Does an unbeliever know what he talks about?? 1Corinthians 8:1-3.
Click to expand...

Why don't you believe in Zeus, Thor, Odin, Horus, or the great JuJu under the sea? They all promise everlasting life, same as your deity. The only difference is that you were exposed to Christianity by other people. If you lived in another culture, you would follow that culture's religion. That's his point.
 
Kuzcotopia

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
12jtartar said:
Hubert Farnsworth,
For a person even to ask this question, proves to me, that He is lost, and needs to find The Way, Acts 9:2, 19:9,23, 22:4. There is only one way to Salvation, Acts 4:10-12.
Have you ever noticed the information contained in 1Corinthians about man’s knowledge?? 1Corinthians 1:19-25, 2:6-15, 3:18-20.
It is impossible for man to even realize just how much wiser God is than men, Isaiah 55:8,9. Even the unbelievable heavens are just the edges of God’s creation, Job 26:14. Mankind cannot understand God’s creation, they are too wonderful, Job 37:5!!
Is any man PERFECT in knowledge!!! The Almighty God, whose Personal, Proper Name in English is Perfect in knowledge, Job 36:4, 37:16. Is any man greater than oil God, Job 40:8,9, 42:2.
Why pretend to be wise in this world, and die before you would, Ecclesiastes 7:16,17.
When you die, what chance does an unbeliever have of living again?? John 5:26-29, Proverbs 11:7, 9- The mouth of the wicked tries to destroy his neighbor, but knowledge will deliver him!!!
Does an unbeliever know what he talks about?? 1Corinthians 8:1-3.
Click to expand...

Boy, I hope you cut and pasted that from somewhere else, and didn't research those yourself, one by one, for the purposes of this thread.

"It is easier for the religious to quote chapter and verse than it is for the intelligent to engage in actual disccusion." - 1st Crockabees, ENIV* probably

* Even Newer International Version.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
atanu said:
I know that science has experimentation. The point is not that at all.
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IIRC, you were asking how do we ascertain what is good and what is evil. While the labels themselves are hopelessly arbitrary, I DO think we can use scientific experimentation to clear up many moral issues.
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Hubert Farnsworth said:
For my 500th post, I thought I would link to this brief, brilliant video from 2006 in which Dr. Dawkins responds to the classic question and gives a simple, succinct, and brilliant answer.

Click to expand...
I don't believe the bible, the things written therein, the God thereof and all things related can be rightly likened to the spaghetti monster or any other belief systems, related literature, historical context, etc.

Ironically, however, I believe that Dawkins was likely correct about (paraphrasing) any possible intelligence responsible for the existence of humanity having necessarily evolved.

I'm not certain if he meant after the Big Bang or DNA-based evolution, but I am referring to evolution in its broadest sense.

Some assume God to be some "man in the sky" who has always existed in the same complex configuration, but biblical scripture does not state that -and an "evolving" overall intelligence whose "body" is essentially everything is not inconsistent with biblical scripture.

Some believe that God "just was" -but science also believes that to be true of the most basic stuff from which everything is formed -as something cannot come from absolute nothing.

God said he IS the beginning and the end -not actually that there was no beginning at all -and this would not negate his being eternal, as he would have "always" existed -but not necessarily in the same configuration or complexity.

Science believes that the development of self-awareness, creativity, etc., is inherent in nature -and the development of an initial, overall intelligence is actually (arguably) the most obvious and simple explanation for the present arrangement of things (far more simple than infinite universes of infinite configurations).

What if.... Science has proved God -but doesn't realize it yet?
It is not a ridiculous idea -it is just applying the same principles at a different level or on a different scale.
 
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Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
and if you are brought up in North Korea, USSR, Communist China, (or Oxbridge) you'll probably be an atheist... so he nicely illustrates that most free thinking people are skeptical of atheism

But is there any record of him answering the question anywhere?
 
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DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
QuestioningMind said:
The problem with prophecy is that it's so vague it can apply to virtually anything. Gullible people have been reading those same prophecies for 2000 years, imagining that it all applied to what was happening in their lives at the time.
Click to expand...

I only know of one person in whom the scriptures concerning the Messiah have been applied to.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
DavidFirth said:
But how many of the prophecies actually apply to such people? Not many if any.
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Ah... so you're talking about who actually satisfies them? I haven't heard of anyone - including Jesus - who satisfies all of the common range of messiah prophecies.
 
DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
He's purported to satisfy most of them... but is "most" enough?

I would think that it's more important that there are messianic prophecies that Jesus doesn't satisfy; for instance, he's not a male-line descendant of King David.
Click to expand...

Well, I think being a male-line descendant of God kind of trumps that. ;)
 
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