I am thinking about poor Harvey Weinstein and JWs

Oeste · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
I don't have a clue as to how anyone could, in good conscience, condemn the whole JW religion on the basis of the one claim of wrongdoing that you were told about.

I would just like to add a point of information to your conversation with Savagewind.

It's not really one claim of wrongdoing by the JW Organization but more like thousands of claims of one Organization still doing wrong.

There have been literally thousands of child abuse charges brought against the Watchtower, most made possible by a hideously aberrant reading of the "two witness" rule found in Deuteronomy 19:15. They've applied this rule to cases of incest and rape, something this "rule" was never written to do.

According to the Australian Royal Commission there has been, on average, one case of child abuse per month every month for the last 65 years in Australia alone.

Further, the Australian Royal Commission has found (as the UK and some US courts have found) that it was the official policy of the Watchtower to hide child abuse complaints from legal authorities and to only report them if they were legally required to do so.

Child molesters know if the State they are living in has mandatory reporting laws. They also know that if the State does not require reporting the Watchtower will handle the matter internally whereupon the child will be asked to present at least two witnesses. Failure to produce two witnesses may result in disciplinary action against the child, a demand for an apology, or a suggestion the matter be "left in Jehovah's hands".

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

Oeste said:
I would just like to add a point of information to your conversation with Savagewind.

It's not really one claim of wrongdoing by the JW Organization but more like thousands of claims of one Organization still doing wrong.

Name all the perpetrators of wrongdoing that you are referring to.

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
Name all the perpetrators of wrongdoing that you are referring to.

Will some do?

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
Will some do?

Name all the persons you know of for which there is evidence of perpetrating sexual assault.

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

https://www.revealnews.org/article/...ild-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/\ Jonathan Kendrick
The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Massive Child Sex Abuse Scandal
Bill Neill, a church elder

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
Name all the persons you know of for which there is evidence of perpetrating sexual assault.

Are you the type of person who will side with the accused if there is not enough solid evidence?
If it is a he said she said problem will you usually side with the he said side?

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
Name all the persons you know of for which there is evidence of perpetrating sexual assault.

Another problem with providing names is that even though the Watchtower Society settled some claims outside of the courts they asked and got gag orders. Many times enough time had passed since the abuse that many cases could not get to criminal court.

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
https://www.revealnews.org/article/...ild-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/\ Jonathan Kendrick
The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Massive Child Sex Abuse Scandal
Bill Neill, a church elder

The two cases noted in the article were reported and presumably disposed of by the Royal Commission. What more do you want than that?

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
Are you the type of person who will side with the accused if there is not enough solid evidence?
If it is a he said she said problem will you usually side with the he said side?

Sometimes in a he-said/she-said case, the accuser can present circumstantial evidence that is persuasive.

Short of that, you would not want to be convicted of any crime merely on the basis of one other person's uncorroborated claims. Right?

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
Another problem with providing names is that even though the Watchtower Society settled some claims outside of the courts they asked and got gag orders.

Cite those cases.

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
The two cases noted in the article were reported and presumably disposed of by the Royal Commission. What more do you want than that?

I don't understand the question.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are advertising Paradise. It doesn't cost money. It costs a person's complete loyalty to the objective that their governing body decides for each Jehovah's Witness.

11 Think, too, of the changes in traits as sincere ones of all backgrounds have striven to understand and apply God’s Word. Basically, they have worked to put away animalistic traits that used to characterize them. Perhaps you have done that with significant results, and so have your spiritual brothers and sisters. (Colossians 3:8-14) Hence, as you associate with a congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, you are with people who have become more peaceable and pleasant. No, they are not yet perfect, but they could hardly be described as ferocious lions or rapacious wild beasts. (Isaiah 35:9) What does this pacific spiritual fellowship indicate? Clearly, we enjoy a spiritual condition that we rightly call a spiritual paradise. And our spiritual paradise foreshadows an earthly paradise that we will enjoy if we remain loyal to God.

– October 15, 2004, Watchtower – “Paradise—For You?”

JW Crime Map

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
The two cases noted in the article were reported and presumably disposed of by the Royal Commission. What more do you want than that?

The Conti case was American.

Oeste · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
Name all the perpetrators of wrongdoing that you are referring to.

There would be no way I could name them all...there are just too many. But I can start with the Washington Post. You'll find a link to the Australian Royal Commission's 170 page report on the Watchtower's child abuse handling practices there. There was also testimony that known pedophiles were repeatedly promoted and kept in positions of authority.

Also, here's a short clip based on a class action in Canada:

There are many others...including the United Kingdom and the US, but too many to mention here.

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
Sometimes in a he-said/she-said case, the accuser can present circumstantial evidence that is persuasive.

Short of that, you would not want to be convicted of any crime merely on the basis of one other person's uncorroborated claims. Right?

It isn't about that! It is about the atmosphere each JW accepts and advances and then the way the elders have handled the situations. Why not read about it?
I have heard and I have no good reason not to believe it that the way they have handled some of these situations is to gather the accused, the accuser and two or three male elders together. I have heard that even though at times the accuser is a young person, the elders do not allow anyone else to be with him or her. Then the elders call for a reenactment from the accuser in front of the accused! OK?

Oeste · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
The Conti case was American.

That particularly egregious case could possibly qualify as one of the "crown jewels" in Watchtower malfeasance.

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

By the way, I think people should know that at a private hearing of a Jehovah's Witness who is called to the elders for "shepherding" NO RECORDING it is allowed. This is first-hand knowledge.
I asked to record my session and I was told no. I was not even asking so that I might have some evidence of their massive incompetence. I asked because I lack a lot and my memory is poor. I can hear someone say a short sentence and to save my life I can't repeat it accurately. Also, I don't know shorthand.

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
It isn't about that!

You asked about he-said/she-said cases, and I answered your question.

Obviously you merely want to talk about your anger toward the JW religion, and cannot produce any evidence to substantiate your claims. It's something you should be telling your therapist, not flinging crap around on a discussion board such as you're doing.

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

Oeste said:
You'll find a link to the Australian Royal Commission's 170 page report on the Watchtower's child abuse handling practices there.

What were the Royal Commission's conclusions?

Nous · Oct 21, 2017

savagewind said:
The two cases noted in the article were reported and presumably disposed of by the Royal Commission. What more do you want than that?

Click to expand...

I don't understand the question.

You linked to a 2015 article about the Royal Commission in Australia hearing 2 cases of sexual abuse. Those 2 cases were brought against the accused, and were presumably adjudicated in the 2 years hence. What else do you want to happen in those cases?

savagewind · Oct 21, 2017

Nous said:
You asked about he-said/she-said cases, and I answered your question.

Obviously you merely want to talk about your anger toward the JW religion, and cannot produce any evidence to substantiate your claims. It's something you should be telling your therapist, not flinging crap around on a discussion board such as you're doing.

Aha! Evidence. It wasn't easy (it took a whol;e five minutes) but I found what you ~~are looking~~ asked for. I will bore you. Ready?

Gonzalo Campos
Louis (Joseph) Daigle
Curtis Thomson
Donald L. Glew
Sergio Leuvano
Hugh Murry
Angela Montgomery
Jesus Cano
There are more, but I have donuts to fry.

I am thinking about poor Harvey Weinstein and JWs

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