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Capitalism and Christianity

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I have something better you might prefer:

Isaiah 65:17-25
For, lo, I am creating new heavens, and a new earth, And the former things are not remembered, Nor do they ascend on the heart.
Yes, Christians are excited about when that comes about.

--
Everyone can have enough. Capitalism, which demands that we incur debt, is not efficient for that purpose.
Disagree completely.

Screen Shot 2017-10-18 at 3.32.05 PM.png

The command is that we forgive debtors. If you can imagine that, you would not:
That has to do with sin not with business. But I have forgiven financial debt.

Luke 6:34
Lend to those of whom you "don't" hope to receive back.
What grace have you? For also the sinful lend to sinners -- that they may receive again as much.
I've done that... you don't get any spiritual reward but it doesn't say you can't lend. Just don't forget those who need money but can't pay back. You can do both... because if you have more, you can help more.

Instead:

Luke 6:35
Love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward will be great, and you shall be sons of the Highest, because He is kind unto the ungracious and evil.
Believe in that too!
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
All the stuff about "worry" speaks to motivation for working.

But in any case, it did talk about working:

\

OK... let's all stop working and just sit and believe God... Do we feed ourselves? Or does someone do that for us? OOPS!

That would make them work...

Sorry, but your post is going so far out there that it has become crazy.

Didn't bother with the rest because that is what you just advocated.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
spiritually or physically?
faith without works is d-o-a.


man doesn't live by the word of God alone. feeding the mind alone isn't going to be practical for a starving body.

Jesus fed the masses both spiritual and physical food.

so again, what is the fruit of a capitalist heart? how does it nourish the poor?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
OK... let's all stop working and just sit and believe God... Do we feed ourselves? Or does someone do that for us? OOPS!
You get food and lodging from those you preach to (Matthew 10). You don't need to worry about the situation where nobody works, because very few people will actually accept the message you and the other Christians are preaching (Luke 13:23-25).

On the off chance you're turned away and go hungry, rejoice because you're earning reward in Heaven (Matthew 5:11-12). If you die of hunger, so be it: was your Earthly life that vital to you anyway?

That would make them work...

Sorry, but your post is going so far out there that it has become crazy.

Didn't bother with the rest because that is what you just advocated.
Yes: what Jesus demanded of his followers is extreme and could be seen as crazy. This doesn't mean he didn't ask it, though.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
faith without works is d-o-a.


man doesn't live by the word of God alone. feeding the mind alone isn't going to be practical for a starving body.

Jesus fed the masses both spiritual and physical food.

so again, what is the fruit of a capitalist heart? how does it nourish the poor?
One expression of this is TOLM.org which we support. You get the poorest of the poor, feed them, clothe them and take care of their medical/dental needs (physical), give them an education and training (mind), and teach them the word of God (spiritual) and it would break the poverty cycle their generations had experienced and the waves of blessings would extend out from them.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You get food and lodging from those you preach to (Matthew 10). You don't need to worry about the situation where nobody works, because very few people will actually accept the message you and the other Christians are preaching (Luke 13:23-25).

On the off chance you're turned away and go hungry, rejoice because you're earning reward in Heaven (Matthew 5:11-12). If you die of hunger, so be it: was your Earthly life that vital to you anyway?


Yes: what Jesus demanded of his followers is extreme and could be seen as crazy. This doesn't mean he didn't ask it, though.
Like I said... you are so far out there that you have become irrelevant.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Like I said... you are so far out there that you have become irrelevant.
I'm just telling you what the Gospels say.

Exactly what part of what I'm saying do you think goes against Christian belief or the Bible? Please be specific.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I'm just telling you what the Gospels say.

Exactly what part of what I'm saying do you think goes against Christian belief or the Bible? Please be specific.
No, you are interpreting it into what you want it to say.

You don't need to worry about the situation where nobody works, because very few people will actually accept the message you and the other Christians are preaching

You don't know the first thing about what you are talking about and personal opinions don't count as part of the message
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No, you are interpreting it into what you want it to say.



You don't know the first thing about what you are talking about and personal opinions don't count as part of the message
I said "please be specific." Exactly what part of what I'm saying do you think goes against Christian belief or the Bible? Cite actual verses.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I said "please be specific." Exactly what part of what I'm saying do you think goes against Christian belief or the Bible? Cite actual verses.
hmmm... I think I was quite specific as I quoted the irrelevant statement. It was your personal opinions that have no scriptural support.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Let me ask YOU a question. You have 15,000 people in your care and you can't send them home or some will die (these are the people you said they wouldn't accept the message but they seem to be hanging around a message they don't want to receive)...

You mean you would walk in perfect peace, no one will accept the message, and you don't have to worry about the situation?
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Yes, Christians are excited about when that comes about.

--

Disagree completely.

View attachment 19296

That has to do with sin not with business. But I have forgiven financial debt.


I've done that... you don't get any spiritual reward but it doesn't say you can't lend. Just don't forget those who need money but can't pay back. You can do both... because if you have more, you can help more.


Believe in that too!


During the past 13 years, the highest Debt-to-Equity Ratio of American Eagle Outfitters Inc was 4.27. The lowest was 0.01. And the median was 0.05.

Historical Data
* All numbers are in millions except for per share data and ratio. All numbers are in their local exchange's currency.

American Eagle Outfitters Debt-to-Equity (AEO)


Also, the minimum wage at AE is between $8-9. **No, students don't deserve to be stiffed with non-sustainable wages either.

--

OK. That's interesting.

Matthew 5:38-48

We're seeing two different religions apparently. These are fundamental ideas.
 
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Rise

Well-Known Member
the first scripture speaks about wealth en lieu of love. the second speaks about the poor vs a thiefs indifference to the money bag that was for the poor.

i'll cut to the chase. what is the goal of capitalism?

You still didn't answer the question I've been challenging you with: What exactly do those verses have to do with capitalism?
If capitalism, by your own definition, is just private ownership of wealth, then it inherently has nothing to do with lacking love or indifference to the poor.
You don't seem to understand how to establish logical connections in support of a conclusion - because simply telling us those scriptures deal with selfishness and lack of love, even if true, does nothing to establish why they apply to capitalism. You merely take for granted that they do apply to capitalism without ever logically demonstrating why they do.

You are guilty of engaging in the logical fallacy known as begging the question. You try to prove your conclusion is true in a way that requires presuming that your conclusion is already true. You say that capitalism is antichristian because you have already chosen to define capitalism in a way that makes it antichristian. But you never proved your premise is even true, proving why capitalism by definition must involve antichristian practices.

Unless you can demonstrate with reason your premise that private property ownership inherently cannot be practiced with love for God and others then you have grossly misused those scriptures.
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
You still didn't answer the question I've been challenging you with: What exactly do those verses have to do with capitalism?
If capitalism, by your own definition, is just private ownership of wealth, then it inherently has nothing to do with lacking love or indifference to the poor.
capitalism is nothing more than belief system based on self vs others as self. where then is the focus of self?

is it self wants wealth, things? or self has an idea that would help millions, maybe billions but self needs money, or services, to realize that dream?

please allow me to clarify, there are two and ,only two, types of people on this planet. those who serve all as one, and those who serve self. we all fall within this spectrum. self-preservation always takes precedence over self-adulation. there is a middle ground and a healthier state of being.


empathy is a learned behavior.


no man is an island unto himself.
 
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Rise

Well-Known Member
capitalism is nothing more than belief system based on self vs others as self. where then is the focus of self?

is it self wants wealth, things? or self has an idea that would help millions, maybe billions but self needs money, or services, to realize that dream?

please allow me to clarify, there are two and ,only two, types of people on this planet. those who serve all as one, and those who serve self. we all fall within this spectrum. self-preservation always takes precedence over self-adulation. there is a middle ground and a healthier state of being.


empathy is a learned behavior.


no man is an island unto himself.

Again, you don't seem to understand what it means to support an assertion.
You've made an assertion about capitalism (that it is inherently selfish and cannot be practiced selflessly), but you make no attempt to provide supporting argumentation (as logical reasoning or evidence) that proves your assertion to be true.

Without supportive arguments your assertion is unproven, and therefore just your opinion.
What you don't seem to grasp is that simply restating your opinion in different ways is not the same as providing supportive reasons to prove that your statement is true.
You have to tell us why capitalism (defined as private ownership of property) cannot ever under any circumstance be practiced with selfless love towards others and God. Only then have your proved your assertion is true.

Simply stating that it does, over and over, without giving reasons to prove why, makes you guilty of engaging in the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad assertion - the belief that by merely repeatedly asserting to be true that you prove it to be true.

Unless you can demonstrate the truth of your assertion, your entire argument falls apart because it was based on a bad foundational premise that was never true. And your scriptures were grossly misused.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
hmmm... I think I was quite specific as I quoted the irrelevant statement. It was your personal opinions that have no scriptural support.
I cited the verses that support my position. The interpretations I used are - IMO - based on a straightforward reading of the text. I'd like you to give me your interpretation for these verses and explain why you think that interpretation is better than the one I gave.
 
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