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Old Testament Sheol.

Father

Devourer of Truth
She'ol (/ˈʃiːoʊl/ SHEE-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ SHEE-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל‎ Šʾôl), in the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and from God.

The subject of death is treated inconsistently in the Bible, though most often it suggests that physical death is the end of life. This is the case with such central figures as Abraham, Moses, and Miriam.

There are, however, several biblical references to a place called Sheol (cf. Numbers 30, 33). It is described as a region “dark and deep,” “the Pit,” and “the Land of Forgetfulness,” where human beings descend after death. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Sheol, the deceased, although cut off from God and humankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.

While this vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man (Job 3:11-19).

The inhabitants of Sheol are the "shades" (rephaim), entities without personality or strength. Under some circumstances, they are thought to be able to be contacted by the living, as the Witch of Endor contacts the shade of Samuel for Saul, but such practices are forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10).

The development of the concept of life after death is related to the development of eschatology (speculation about the “end of days”) in Judaism. Beginning in the period following the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem (586 BCE), several of the classical Israelite prophets (Amos, Hosea, and Isaiah) began forecasting a better future for their people.

and the establishment of a Punishment and reward system that is currently used was popularized by the Catholic church. especially Dante's Inferno. while the concept of Hell is not unique to Christianity and is held by other religions also we can clearly see a change in direction of doctrine around the end of the old testament. an example would be burnt offerings while contrary to popular belief did not end because of Jesus but are visibly ended at the end of the old testament.

the idea of hell being a complex labyrinth of punishments for each individual sin is thanks to Dante's Inferno. the word Hell itself come's from the Norse Goddess Hel. and the place she rules being called Hel or Helheim.

Hel (Norse location) is a cold forestland of ice and snow and ruins. its why in Dante's inferno Satan is frozen in a lake in the 9th ring Judeca. which you guessed it. is a cold wasteland of ice and ruin.
4057d0d29b3691d5a3562977c157a119.jpg

20150706-800px-DVinfernoLuciferKingOfHell_m-658.jpg

he is also the one who popularized the idea of Satan residing in Hell. though in Dante's inferno Satan is frozen halfway in a lake and chews on Judas's corpse forever and only his Shadow or Shade permitted to roam the earth. it also somewhat fills in the part of Satan only ever tempting or making deals as he is weak in the form of a shadow and can only do just that. his writings also tried to popularize not a red devil but a blue cold frozen devil. but that never caught on as everyone thinks fire is worse than ice. (they have obviously never been to Wisconsin)

Lucifer himself as I have stated in another thread is not even a character in the Old Testament. satan being a verb applying to even Angels of God. but that's another topic.

so when reading the old testament its best to note Sheol not being a place of good or evil just where all dead go. as Heaven at the time was reserved for Angelium and God. not Mortal's

Also of side note when God smote people out of existence with lighting powers or such turning them to dust. I can be assumed he destroyed their souls as it never mentioned them being cast down to Sheol.

Sources: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/
SHEOL - JewishEncyclopedia.com
SparkNotes: Inferno: Plot Overview
Hel (Goddess) - Norse Mythology for Smart People




Thanks for reading. here is a Cute Demon for your troubles
02f73f96741143db2b4c5e92d7995954.jpg
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hell is also a place where they burn tongues. James 3:6

The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Hell is also a place where they burn tongues. James 3:6

The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Huh. mine just tells me when what I am eating is good or not.
and I use it to speak... oh that's why God wants everyone mute. should of put a mute button on humans.
1xob56.jpg
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Huh. mine just tells me when what I am eating is good or not.
and I use it to speak... oh that's why God wants everyone mute. should of put a mute button on humans.
1xob56.jpg
I think he prefers to burn the tongues in hell.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Hell is also a place where they burn tongues. James 3:6

The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

What does hell in this Christian book have to do with Sheol?

Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Jas 3:3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.

Jas 3:4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

That "hell" is Gehennah.

This is telling the brothers not to cause strife and turning - with their words/tongues.

"It is plainly intimated by what this chapter first goes upon that such a faith is, however, apt to make men conceited and magisterial in their tempers and their talk. Those who set up faith in the manner the former chapter condemns are most apt to run into those sins of the tongue which this chapter condemns. And indeed the best need to be cautioned against a dictating, censorious, mischievous use of their tongues. We are therefore taught,


I. Not to use our tongues so as to lord it over others: My brethren, be not many masters, etc., ..." Matthew Henry's Commentary on the whole Bible.

*
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
What does hell in this Christian book have to do with Sheol?

Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Jas 3:3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.

Jas 3:4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

That "hell" is Gehennah.

This is telling the brothers not to cause strife and turning - with their words/tongues.

"It is plainly intimated by what this chapter first goes upon that such a faith is, however, apt to make men conceited and magisterial in their tempers and their talk. Those who set up faith in the manner the former chapter condemns are most apt to run into those sins of the tongue which this chapter condemns. And indeed the best need to be cautioned against a dictating, censorious, mischievous use of their tongues. We are therefore taught,


I. Not to use our tongues so as to lord it over others: My brethren, be not many masters, etc., ..." Matthew Henry's Commentary on the whole Bible.

*
seriously can you start a church, please? I don't believe in the Abrahamic faith but would promote and join that stuff.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Lucifer himself as I have stated in another thread is not even a character in the Old Testament. satan being a verb applying to even Angels of God. but that's another topic.

Nope, You said that Lucifer was not a character in the Tanakh. Which is not the OT.

What does hell in this Christian book have to do with Sheol?

You 2 need to make up your mind what your argument is. Is it about the Tanakh or the Bibles OT? Because it seems you use them interchangeable. Pick one and stick to it.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Nope, You said that Lucifer was not a character in the Tanakh. Which is not the OT.



You 2 need to make up your mind what your argument is. Is it about the Tanakh or the Bibles OT? Because it seems you use them interchangeable. Pick one and stick to it.

Tanakh definition:
The Tanakh, also called the Mikra or Hebrew Bible, is the canonical collection of Jewish texts, which is also a textual source for the Christian Old Testament.
Tanakh - Wikipedia
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Tanakh definition:
The Tanakh, also called the Mikra or Hebrew Bible, is the canonical collection of Jewish texts, which is also a textual source for the Christian Old Testament.
Tanakh - Wikipedia

Different interpretations though. Pick which side you are viewing it from then run with it. If they are interchangeable then you have to accept Christians views of it as well. Which you do not. Which means your viewing it from the Tanakh side. But why keep saying Bible OT if your not willing to accept Christian interpretation?
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Different interpretations though. Pick which side you are viewing it from then run with it. If they are interchangeable then you have to accept Christians views of it as well. Which you do not. Which means your viewing it from the Tanakh side. But why keep saying Bible OT if your not willing to accept Christian interpretation?
when looking at the new testament I also look at the old.
but when looking at the old I only look at it and the other writings that connect to it in Judaism. in the way its writers meant.
but the Old Testament can only be viewed from the Judaic. it's not a Saga that the new testament adds to. both are separate books of separate religions with separate Gods. even if some say they are the same there are clear personality differences and messages.
nor can you properly understand it from a Christian perspective as the Jews were not Christians and don't believe anything the Christians do. they share some similarities but not enough to lump together.
if you look at the new testament from the Judaic perspective you also fail.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
when looking at the new testament I also look at the old.
but when looking at the old I only look at it and the other writings that connect to it in Judaism. in the way its writers meant.
but the Old Testament can only be viewed from the Judaic. it's not a Saga that the new testament adds to. both are separate books of separate religions with separate Gods. even if some say they are the same there are clear personality differences and messages.
nor can you properly understand it from a Christian perspective as the Jews were not Christians and don't believe anything the Christians do. they share some similarities but not enough to lump together.
if you look at the new testament from the Judaic perspective you also fail.

So your argument is from the Jewish point of view. Excellent, now Christians will know to stay out of it. That's all I needed to know.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
I never said they was. You must of graduated top of your class!
... then what have you been arguing all the bloody time?

I stated Sheol was not hell and heaven is not accessible to man. and you argued against that. so you obviously don't know the difference between Sheol and Hell and how Hell is a purely Christian creation and is not in the old testament.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
... then what have you been arguing all the bloody time?

I stated Sheol was not hell and heaven is not accessible to man. and you argued against that. so you obviously don't know the difference between Sheol and Hell and how Hell is a purely Christian creation and is not in the old testament.


I haven't argued anything in this thread. All I have done is confirmed if you were using a Jewish or Christian pov. You chose Jewish. End of Story.

Read post #13.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I was referring to the thread about Lucifer.

If you go read the last page or 2 of that thread you will understand why.

You mislead the thread by not specifying your pov.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
She'ol (/ˈʃiːoʊl/ SHEE-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ SHEE-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל‎ Šʾôl), in the Hebrew Bible, is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and from God.

The subject of death is treated inconsistently in the Bible, though most often it suggests that physical death is the end of life. This is the case with such central figures as Abraham, Moses, and Miriam.

There are, however, several biblical references to a place called Sheol (cf. Numbers 30, 33). It is described as a region “dark and deep,” “the Pit,” and “the Land of Forgetfulness,” where human beings descend after death. The suggestion is that in the netherworld of Sheol, the deceased, although cut off from God and humankind, live on in some shadowy state of existence.

While this vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgment or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact, the more pessimistic books of the Bible, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man (Job 3:11-19).

The inhabitants of Sheol are the "shades" (rephaim), entities without personality or strength. Under some circumstances, they are thought to be able to be contacted by the living, as the Witch of Endor contacts the shade of Samuel for Saul, but such practices are forbidden (Deuteronomy 18:10).

The development of the concept of life after death is related to the development of eschatology (speculation about the “end of days”) in Judaism. Beginning in the period following the destruction of the First Temple in Jerusalem (586 BCE), several of the classical Israelite prophets (Amos, Hosea, and Isaiah) began forecasting a better future for their people.

and the establishment of a Punishment and reward system that is currently used was popularized by the Catholic church. especially Dante's Inferno. while the concept of Hell is not unique to Christianity and is held by other religions also we can clearly see a change in direction of doctrine around the end of the old testament. an example would be burnt offerings while contrary to popular belief did not end because of Jesus but are visibly ended at the end of the old testament.

the idea of hell being a complex labyrinth of punishments for each individual sin is thanks to Dante's Inferno. the word Hell itself come's from the Norse Goddess Hel. and the place she rules being called Hel or Helheim.

Hel (Norse location) is a cold forestland of ice and snow and ruins. its why in Dante's inferno Satan is frozen in a lake in the 9th ring Judeca. which you guessed it. is a cold wasteland of ice and ruin.
4057d0d29b3691d5a3562977c157a119.jpg

20150706-800px-DVinfernoLuciferKingOfHell_m-658.jpg

he is also the one who popularized the idea of Satan residing in Hell. though in Dante's inferno Satan is frozen halfway in a lake and chews on Judas's corpse forever and only his Shadow or Shade permitted to roam the earth. it also somewhat fills in the part of Satan only ever tempting or making deals as he is weak in the form of a shadow and can only do just that. his writings also tried to popularize not a red devil but a blue cold frozen devil. but that never caught on as everyone thinks fire is worse than ice. (they have obviously never been to Wisconsin)

Lucifer himself as I have stated in another thread is not even a character in the Old Testament. satan being a verb applying to even Angels of God. but that's another topic.

so when reading the old testament its best to note Sheol not being a place of good or evil just where all dead go. as Heaven at the time was reserved for Angelium and God. not Mortal's

Also of side note when God smote people out of existence with lighting powers or such turning them to dust. I can be assumed he destroyed their souls as it never mentioned them being cast down to Sheol.

Sources: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/heaven-and-hell-in-jewish-tradition/
SHEOL - JewishEncyclopedia.com
SparkNotes: Inferno: Plot Overview
Hel (Goddess) - Norse Mythology for Smart People




Thanks for reading. here is a Cute Demon for your troubles
02f73f96741143db2b4c5e92d7995954.jpg

The books of spiritual gnosis agree's.with this assessment.

"And I went into the realm of darkness and I endured till I entered the middle of the prison. And the foundations of chaos shook. And I hid myself from them because of their wickedness, and they did not recognize me.


"Again I returned for the second time, and I went about. I came forth from those who belong to the light, which is I, the remembrance of the Pronoia. I entered into the midst of darkness and the inside of Hades, since I was seeking (to accomplish) my task. And the foundations of chaos shook, that they might fall down upon those who are in chaos and might destroy them. And again I ran up to my root of light, lest they be destroyed before the time.


"Still for a third time I went - I am the light which exists in the light, I am the remembrance of the Pronoia - that I might enter into the midst of darkness and the inside of Hades. And I filled my face with the light of the completion of their aeon. And I entered into the midst of their prison, which is the prison of the body. And I said, 'He who hears, let him get up from the deep sleep.' And he wept and shed tears. Bitter tears he wiped from himself and he said, 'Who is it that calls my name, and from where has this hope come to me, while I am in the chains of the prison?' And I said, 'I am the Pronoia of the pure light; I am the thinking of the virginal Spirit, who raised you up to the honored place. Arise and remember that it is you who hearkened, and follow your root, which is I, the merciful one, and guard yourself against the angels of poverty and the demons of chaos and all those who ensnare you, and beware of the deep sleep and the enclosure of the inside of Hades.


"And I raised him up, and sealed him in the light of the water with five seals, in order that death might not have power over him from this time on.- Apocryphon of John

Those who died before Christ could not be saved until Christ came. At the crucifixion the spirit Christ gave up entered chaos (Sheol) and appeared to those that slept. Matthew records:

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The Jews (OT) didn't have the knowledge Christ brought, but were saved by their faith. They never knew to "seek the kingdom of God" as Christ said in the beginning of his ministry.

John:
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
.
Stephen was stoned to death for showing the Jews that they weren't follow God (the Father) but the works of angels. Acts 7.

Once truth came (John 1) why would anyone seek out truth in the times before it appeared?
 
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