MohammadPali
Active Member
God loves all humans, and he especially loves the ones that are facing hardship in this world. So in the next world you don't have hardship. Hell is not eternal, eventually torment wont exist.
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False Prophets
- Thread starter Laika
- Start date
God loves all humans, and he especially loves the ones that are facing hardship in this world. So in the next world you don't have hardship. Hell is not eternal, eventually torment wont exist.
MohammadPali
Active Member
ALSO, about the sin transfer, so all that stuff when the rabbi says that this SACRIFICE IS FOR THE NATION OF ISRAEL, and he touches the goats or rams head and transfers the sin, and throws the thing into this alter of fire, or the blazing fire, or the whatever fire you want to believe it is, the holy fire, special fire whatever.
That transfer of sin is a lie ? its misleading right ? FAKE transfer of sin right ? So all these sacrifices are a lie ? No kidding they are, im glad you agree with me. Im shocked you even said that. The piece meal, I meant peace meal. It was a typo.
The taqiyah is so strong with you. Let me ask you a question, what if your sin is really bad, so bad you might need a flock of chickens to sacrifice, can you supplement it with a bigger animal since you have a big problem, and want to make sure all your sins are forgiven ?
My god, superstition and redemption is the religion of judaism today, and they deny it. I don't want to even look at the talmud, I am not going to even post links or quotes, its in there. And you know it. Stop lieing taqiyah man.
That transfer of sin is a lie ? its misleading right ? FAKE transfer of sin right ? So all these sacrifices are a lie ? No kidding they are, im glad you agree with me. Im shocked you even said that. The piece meal, I meant peace meal. It was a typo.
The taqiyah is so strong with you. Let me ask you a question, what if your sin is really bad, so bad you might need a flock of chickens to sacrifice, can you supplement it with a bigger animal since you have a big problem, and want to make sure all your sins are forgiven ?
My god, superstition and redemption is the religion of judaism today, and they deny it. I don't want to even look at the talmud, I am not going to even post links or quotes, its in there. And you know it. Stop lieing taqiyah man.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Well on top of having hardships this life like many criminals have suffered to make them so, it seems he will throw them into hellfire for love in your view. And if that torment punishment is temporary, what's the point of torturing someone for long periods of time if you know you'd fix them up and they'd be just like the others?
It will be eternal punishment for some, others will be removed and have the water of life poured over them. The point of the punishment, which is warned about over and over again in the Qur'an, so no pleading ignorance on that day, is to show the unbeliever what they denied existed, ie God warned about Hell, they ignored, mocked and ridiculed the idea, so now here they are being driven into it by the Gate Keepers.
Thinking oh well, I'm only in it for a day or two is wishful thinking on the part of the disbeliever, and hypocrites....
And they say, "Never will the Fire touch us, except for a few days." Say, "Have you taken a covenant with Allah ? For Allah will never break His covenant. Or do you say about Allah that which you do not know?" Qur'an 2:80
Jumi
Well-Known Member
So there is division among Muslims as to what happens in Hell? Since I've heard different people tell different things.
Qu'ran doesn't help there. I've read parts of it and when I've asked questions, I've been told by muslims that I don't understand the Qu'ran and should learn Arabic first. So why would a God make it difficult to reach the information required for anyone except a still small portion of the planet's population unless he planned to torture a lot of people? Of course I don't believe this, since I know Hell doesn't exist.
Of course it would be stupid if someone believed Hell existed only wished to go there to be tortured at all. But like I said, there is no wishful thinking for me since I don't believe in any of the Hells people think exist. Not the one of the Christians where everyone is going except those saved through Jesus and mostly by being born Christian and not the one of the Muslims where everyone is going except those that know Arabic, study Qu'ran and mostly are born Muslim. Luckily my religion doesn't have such. It's likely that when we die there is nothing, no consciousness.
It would make no sense, if you believe in Hell to want to go there. Of course same kinds of threats are given by Christians, but you have to do different things to avoid hell in there, and the torment should be eternal. So from their perspective you are going to Hell, like from your perspective I'm going there.
What's not to understand? The central theme is easy for anyone to understand, GOD created you, worship Him alone and do good works.
That's it.
Is this what the 'secret' knowledge within Gnosticism teaches?
I think it stupid to deny the existence of something, when you haven't stepped through the door to have a look. I can't see the problem in believing, Heaven, Angels, Jinn and Paradise exist too. All is beyond the veil, and accepting them just means dedicating a minimum of 15-25 mins a day in worship to GOD.
Yes knowing about Hell should be enough for Christians and Muslims to do their best to stay as far away from it as possible. I don't wish it for anyone, and would like to think it will not be your eternal place in the hereafter. I've not seen you attacking others, just asking questions, which is fine as GOD tells us blind following is forbidden.It would make no sense, if you believe in Hell to want to go there. Of course same kinds of threats are given by Christians, but you have to do different things to avoid hell in there, and the torment should be eternal. So from their perspective you are going to Hell, like from your perspective I'm going there.
Do you have a link explaining your beliefs? I wouldn't mind having a look and seeing if there's common round between us.
MohammadPali
Active Member
I'm not talking about criminals, im talking about normal god loving people. God knows you intentions, and you will be judged based on your intention. If you were trying to do a good deed, but it didn't work out, god will still give you the blessings based on your intentions even if you didn't fulfill them. You tried.
Sometimes its hard for a person to understand this. God may put calamity in your life just so he can hear you call his name, he loves when people call on his name because they have nothing to turn too but him. So he will keep doing it until finally the calamity is lifted. Why do you think the muslims after a calamity or even during a calamity the muslims have a habit of saying god is great, invoking god in times of calamity you recognize him, and he will recognize you. Don't ever think that when you invoke god he doesn't answer, HE DOES every time.
A good example off someone who went through many many calamities is the prophet job, pbuh. His life was to show that he never gave up beliving god. God tested him calamity after calamity. These hardships he went through. And god blessed him better than before when he had no calamity.
Calamity, hardship, fitna, we all suffer from something, these are all tests from god to see how you as a human will endure them. Some will go the good route and some will go the bad route. God knows your intention.
MohammadPali
Active Member
Listen to this surah its short, listen towards the end especially. The hearts that are hardened are deceived. God prolonged them, tested them, and they were still disobedient. Amazing.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
If that's all there is, why even have a book? I agree with the good works.
There is no secret in something that's open to all and what everyone can reach regardless of views.
Simply put: besides the fact that there's no evidence, I just don't think any omnipotent and omniscient God would have need of such a place, unless they really hated much of humankind. Also many polytheistic religions have or had Hells that they thought bad people go to. It's a story in many religions, though my ancestors believed that afterlife was more of a dull shadowy place without the joys of life no one would want to go to. Well, only heroes could avoid such fates in the beliefs of old.
Even if I had some reason I wanted to believe in them, it would be faking belief if I tried without having proof. Having been an atheist all my life until this year, only a gnostic experience could change that. I don't think most religions offer experience / knowledge, it's more about believing something and the rituals. Commonly gnosis or even attempts at it are attacked, feared or completely bypassed by many religions. And if there's no gnosis, why believe?
Often questions offend people, but I think everyone deserves that honest opinion from me. Though sometimes I've learned to leave my curiosity behind on some topics...
The problem is, that many Christians will claim that you aren't doing enough to avoid Hell and many Muslims will claim that they aren't doing enough to avoid Hell. Both have their books and both feel their belief is on solid ground.
My "religious beliefs" come from experience. As such, I don't have scripture for it. Well we are both human and I believe we are both trying to set an example in some way, I think we already have some common ground.
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Jumi
Well-Known Member
It's not amazing to me to be blamed for something I don't believe. Although the singing is nice in short sets, the texts made no sense to me. Is this meant to say that I'm a hypocrite for being honest with my views?? Or is it supposed to convince me by threats of hell?
Jumi
Well-Known Member
But only people who "love god" are seen as good, not those who are heroes and do good, if they are "disbelievers", to hell they go?
I don't know what fitna means. Although I understand what you're trying to say this is only a problem for some Muslims and Christians who believe God is good, why suffering if God is good, it's not something that's a problem for others.
MohammadPali
Active Member
You can be honest with your views, you have free will, no one is going to stop you, and no one should stop you from thinking freely. Thats a blessing god gave to man. Free will. But free will to do good, and not evil, or inflict harm on yourself or others. The threat is not a threat, its a promise, if you act like a hypocrite and disobedient in this world, god will leave you on the other side of the barrier.
When the surah talks about that light that the believers have, that the hypocrites want from the believers, its talking about the light that emanates from the part of the body of the believers who prayed. When a muslim washes his body before prayer those parts will emanate a brightness to help guide them to the plains of resurrection.
When everyone is resurrected they will instinctively walk towards the plains of resurrection. That is where jerusalem is. The land will be flat, it will look like mars except flat. You will be naked, and you will not even care for your own mother or any siblings, you will just walk to it.
Eventually you have will stop, thats when people start to panic and call upon their gods, their messengers, their prophets, anything they feel assurance by. They will even call upon famous people or celebrities, they are looking for help, whats going on ? Who are those people ? What are we doing ? What is this place ? Many many people will start worshipping the moon from their past lives and invoke the moon.
The muslims will have this beautiful glow or light emanating their hands and their feet. Many want to know what this is about, and they want to stay with the muslims, but the muslims don't want anything to do with them, so god commands an barrier that separates the good from the bad as a mercey just temporarily. We will all feel the resurrection time. God purposely left much of it blank, so we have to experience it ourselves.
When the time comes, because its going to be a very very long time before god starts to judge people, God will come closer to earth to start judging. And when he does come close, the first thing he does is throw the moon right into the sun. And the reason for that is because most of mankind worshipped the moon than any other deity.
MohammadPali
Active Member
A muslim can never ever judge someone and say to another person that he or she is going to hell. He or she can't. That's blasphemy. Only god can judge that. A person can be a evil for most of his life, but on his or her last breathe he or she says, I testify that there is no god but god, god can instantly forgive him his or her sins. ONLY IF his or her intentions where absolute pure and wanting forgiveness. God will forgive them whether he is muslim or not.
If a woman, stayed a virgin all her life, no matter what religion she is, she will go to heaven no question. No matter what.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
I don't think you understand the difference between threat and promise. It's a threat that if you don't believe some people, you are going to hell. It's no different from the Christian version I'm more familiar with. You are going to hell, if you haven't made a personal relationship with Jesus and accepted his gift of eternal life, is what many Christians will say. The thing is, neither has any proof of their claim.
I'm sure this and what you wrote below is what you believe, but there is no proof to all this of course.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
This kind of belief makes no sense to me. Someone who was raped might go to hell, but someone who was a virgin who ruined people's lives will go to heaven if she's a woman.
I'm still quite sure such an illogical place can't exist and there would be no need of such a place.
MohammadPali
Active Member
MohammadPali
Active Member
Christians believe jesus is salvation because of original sin, that we are all sinners before we even exist. We don't believe we are born with sin. And ofcourse theres no proof of the after life. In islam life is a test, trials. God is the teacher, and the humans are the students, he stays silent as we take the test. The rest is up to you (free will) and god prolonged their free will to see whos obedient and whos disobedient.
MohammadPali
Active Member
Disclaimer, I forgot the source of "if a virgin goes to hell or heaven if she was a virgin all her life". I need to clarify this. If im wrong, ill correct myself or confirm it. This is not definitive.
Scrooge
certainty seeking
Not all Christians believe this. Which is good because it is heresy. We are born in sin (this sinful world we live in) and shapened in iniquity. ( this sinful world we live in)
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
How to detect a false prophet.
That all depends what Religion you are in.
There are some Religions who have prophets, But are they a true Prophet?
Form a Christian point a view, no they are not a true Prophet.
And here's why.
First as a Christian, I go to Christ Jesus and see what he established a false prophet to be.
A prophet is a person who is a Teacher, Pastor, Preacher,Rabbi.who also claims to be a Messenger.
Now as a Christian I look to what Jesus gave how to know a false prophet.
In the book of Luke 13:33, I find Jesus saying to his disciples, "Nevertheless I must walk to day, and tomorrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
Now if a prophet dies any where else in the world and not at Jerusalem, Then they would be considered a false prophet.
In the book of Matthew 24:24, we find Christ Jesus in giving about false Christ's and false prophets shall rise.
And then in Verse 26 Jesus saying--"Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not"
If you were to go back from the time of Christ Jesus to us now, How many people have claimed to be a prophet and haved lived,born out in the desert, if you find such a man, then that man would be a false prophet.
What about Muhammad he lived,born in the desert and called himself a prophet, messenger ?
Note that in the book of Mark chapter 13, here Jesus gave the end times Prophecy's.
Note in Verse 22 here Jesus foretell's how false Christ's and false prophets shall rise.
Now Remember Jesus gave the end times Prophecy's,
Note Verse 23---"But take you heed, behold, I have foretold you all things"
Therefore if a person comes to claim to give the end times Prophecy's, Jesus has beat them to it, for Jesus said -- I have foretold you all things"
Therefore By what Jesus has said, will prove them to be a false prophet.
All because Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
Now comes the SDA prophet Ellen G White, saying she is going to give the end times Prophecy's, but Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
Therefore Ellen G White is a false prophet.
Here comes the Mormons prophet Joseph Smith,saying he is giving the end times Prophecy's.
But Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
Therefore Jesus just proved Joseph Smith to be a false prophet.
It doesn't matter who they are, If they come saying they will give end times Prophecy's.
They are giving false prophecy, because Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
That all depends what Religion you are in.
There are some Religions who have prophets, But are they a true Prophet?
Form a Christian point a view, no they are not a true Prophet.
And here's why.
First as a Christian, I go to Christ Jesus and see what he established a false prophet to be.
A prophet is a person who is a Teacher, Pastor, Preacher,Rabbi.who also claims to be a Messenger.
Now as a Christian I look to what Jesus gave how to know a false prophet.
In the book of Luke 13:33, I find Jesus saying to his disciples, "Nevertheless I must walk to day, and tomorrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
Now if a prophet dies any where else in the world and not at Jerusalem, Then they would be considered a false prophet.
In the book of Matthew 24:24, we find Christ Jesus in giving about false Christ's and false prophets shall rise.
And then in Verse 26 Jesus saying--"Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not"
If you were to go back from the time of Christ Jesus to us now, How many people have claimed to be a prophet and haved lived,born out in the desert, if you find such a man, then that man would be a false prophet.
What about Muhammad he lived,born in the desert and called himself a prophet, messenger ?
Note that in the book of Mark chapter 13, here Jesus gave the end times Prophecy's.
Note in Verse 22 here Jesus foretell's how false Christ's and false prophets shall rise.
Now Remember Jesus gave the end times Prophecy's,
Note Verse 23---"But take you heed, behold, I have foretold you all things"
Therefore if a person comes to claim to give the end times Prophecy's, Jesus has beat them to it, for Jesus said -- I have foretold you all things"
Therefore By what Jesus has said, will prove them to be a false prophet.
All because Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
Now comes the SDA prophet Ellen G White, saying she is going to give the end times Prophecy's, but Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
Therefore Ellen G White is a false prophet.
Here comes the Mormons prophet Joseph Smith,saying he is giving the end times Prophecy's.
But Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
Therefore Jesus just proved Joseph Smith to be a false prophet.
It doesn't matter who they are, If they come saying they will give end times Prophecy's.
They are giving false prophecy, because Jesus already foretold all things concerning the end times Prophecy's.
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