A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Ah, but writings in books are never, ever "the truth," now are they? Their words can be said to be representative of a version of truth, but they are not "truth."
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Jehovah's Witnesses Knocked on My Door
- Thread starter Super Universe
- Start date
Super Universe
Defender of God
People always put some of themselves into their writing. What is considered to be the truth is ever evolving.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Since there is no way to know how the first century Christians interpreted Scriptures, I don't see how anyone can claim to know that. As to following the Scriptures, I do not know of anyone who takes all of them literally, and and all Christians I know of so far always interpret parts to fit the morals that have developed in the ensuing centuries. There are parts that would be considered reprehensible if followed today.
Please share these lies that we are supposed to have published. If you have failed to distinguish a quote from a citation, then apparently the fault lies in your interpretation....as others have pointed out to you.
Ah, now we are getting the picture. You were 'forced to go to the Kingdom Hall for 12 years'. How old were you when you decided that it wasn't for you? As I recall from a previous conversation, your father was a pretty unbalanced individual and his attitude is what probably turned you off JW's back then? We can't help who our parents are, nor can we guarantee that they will be kind and balanced, Christ-like individuals. But that is no reason to blame the whole religion for something your father did....if indeed he was the mean-spirited man you made him out to be.
You are mixing up your "Johns" again. John the Baptist is not the apostle John. I believe that I corrected you once before on that score. John the Baptist (who was related to Jesus) was sent ahead of him to prepare the Jews to accept him as Messiah, (as it had been prophesied.) Jesus and John were preaching concurrently for about a year. (John 3:22-24; 26-30) John made reference to Jesus as "the bridegroom" and to himself as "a friend of the bridegroom". John the Baptist was put into prison for exposing Herod's adulterous relationship with his sister in law. Herod wanted his "wife's" daughter to dance for him, foolishly making an oath in front of his guests to give whatever she wanted.....out of spite, her mother persuaded her daughter to ask for John's head on a platter. Herod reluctantly agreed but was afraid of the consequences.
The apostle John received his Revelation near the end of his life around the close of the first century. His vision came from God to Jesus through an angel and was to inform those who lived at the time of the end, what was to come.
What? There is not one scripture that calls satan Lucifer. Satan the devil rebelled against God by hijacking the human race in Eden, before they had a chance to fulfill his mandate to "fill the earth" with their offspring. The man Jesus didn't exist at that point in time. He wasn't born till around 4,000 years later. His pre-existence in heaven was as "the Word".
Again, you have no knowledge of scripture. God never called himself "I AM". His name is not a statement of his existence, but a declaration of his intentions.
Taken from the Jewish Tanach Exodus 3:13-15 reads....
"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)" and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.
Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3 (Parshah Shemot)
God's name means "I Will BE" not "I AM".
"The LORD GOD" in this instance is Israel's God, YHWH. This was to be his name forever.....how he was to be "mentioned in every generation". (ASV) (See also Psalm 83:18 ASV, KJV)
The Jews should be able to identify their own God surely? Moses was commanded by God to tell Israel of his intentions. They already knew he existed.
It's the words of the apostle Paul, personally chosen and instructed by Jesus, post resurrection.
Paul was not a primitive early Christian, but a former Pharisee, well educated and versed in the Law. He was sent to be an apostle, not only to Jews, but to Gentiles. He used things familiar to Gentiles to find common ground with them. (Acts 17:22-28) The games were used several times to illustrate his points. (1 Corinthians 9:24; Hebrews 12:1)
Says who? You? Your knowledge of scripture is completely warped.
Urantia is not truth....it is confessedly the work of aliens.
How Did The Urantia Papers Come to Be? | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation
Are you serious? The article was talking about the kind of thrill seeking that endangers life, not the spoiling of a person's fun. You are so poisoned in your mind that you can't even tell the difference between a recommendation and a rule. The rules we follow are common sense and show due respect for life.
Most of our children love the preaching work because they love God and because they love telling people about the paradise to come. Just because you had a rough upbringing doesn't mean that everyone does. Either your Dad was a monster or you were.....its kind of hard to tell now. Maybe the apple doesn't fall far from the tree....?
The apostles restated what God told Israel about the sanctity of blood. It was not to be consumed under penalty of death.
You obviously know nothing about the dangers of blood transfusions. That is your choice. Doctors are warning about them now.
For Media | National Blood Authority
He said we were to 'love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us'. He also said that 'those who live by the sword will die by the sword'. We will not carry or use weapons. Loving one's enemies does not include doing them harm. How did Jesus love his enemies? We imitate him.
Since Jesus was the one who conveyed the vision to John through an angel, I will take his word over your aliens any day.
But ideas invented in the Urantia papers are all OK then? According to Wiki..."The Urantia Papers or The Fifth Epochal Revelation) is a spiritual and philosophical book that originated in Chicago sometime between 1924 and 1955. The authorship remains a matter of speculation."
It seems as if your own beginnings are a matter of interest. Its concepts of a Master Universe are rather unique.
An Artist's Conception of the Master Universe | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation
But, getting away from aliens and back to the Bible......God told us through his prophet Daniel that the Messiah would come and that would be cut off. (Daniel 9:24-26) He also foretold that God would cleanse and refine his people in the "time of the end". (Daniel 12:9-10) This is the time of the end.....and all the things foretold in Daniel are backed up in Revelation...they are taking place before our eyes. You can shut your eyes to them if you wish. If you find Urantia's story more acceptable, then that is your choice.
Super Universe
Defender of God
I should share the lies JW's published? Changing the verses and citing the verses is lying. And I posted them on page 2 of this topic, post #22.
Yes, I was forced to go to the Kingdom Hall for 12 years. Others were forced as well. You're destroying families and getting away with it.
How old was I when I decided it wasn't for me? Age 5 I knew it was junk and I was very afraid of it. One of the elders that my dad was friends with was a very creepy, age 60's, white haired guy, extremely meek, too soft spoken, had a wife who looked just like a witch with black hair with white streaks in it and she would never look you in the eye. They could only talk about their religion because they knew nothing else. But I couldn't get away because my dad would pick me up for his weekends and we would always go to the Kingdom Hall on Sunday's until age 16 when I got a little acne and my dad freaked out and said I was being punished by God and he never picked me up again. I never saw him again. If God was punishing me, thanks God, I owe you one for that acne.
I am mixing up my John's again? Okay, I will buy that, John the Apostle not John the Baptist.
There is not one scripture that calls Satan as Lucifer? The "scripture" tells about the serpent aka the "devil", and Satan, and Lucifer, and Beelzebub. All of these are separate angels who took part in the rebellion.
Jesus was born 4,000 years after Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden? More like 50,000 years after.
I have no knowledge of scripture? Please inform all of us of your great knowledge then, I mean if you have time in between your "knock, knock, I have a magazine for you."
God never called Himself "I AM"? I said that.
Exodus reads that Moses had a conversation with God? Says Moses. How would Moses know if an angel was talking to him or God? He wouldn't.
God's name means "I Will BE" not "I AM"? I will be is not a name.
The Jews should be able to identify their own God? They should be, we're still waiting for that to happen, it's taking a very long time. Here's what happened, the Jews came up with the idea of one God. This was very different from other religions of the time and the Jews had to come up with a name for their new God but the angel in the burning bush would not reveal a name for God because even the angels don't know His name. God has never revealed His name to any being.
"Physical training is beneficial a little" are the words of apostle Paul? And what authority does apostle Paul have? None. You give just as much credit to his words as you do a stranger on the street. Paul does not invent Christianity. Only Jesus words are Christianity.
Paul was educated and versed in the law? Jewish law. Why did Jesus have to tell him anything then if he was so "educated"?
My knowledge of scripture is completely warped? Says the person who refuses to allow their children to have blood transfusions, what page of the bible says we are not to get blood transfusions? What page of the bible says the earth is 6,000 years old? And JW's don't believe in the trinity even though it's in the bible.
How did Urantia papers come to be? A voice in their heads. Just like Saul of Tarsus who became the apostle Paul heard a voice on the road to Damascus. Just like the voice in the burning bush that talked to Moses. Just like the voice in the garden. Just like the voice who told the apostle John about Revelations. Just like the voice that talked to Emperor Constantine. Just like the voice that told Mohammed to "Recite!" Are you starting to see a pattern?
The Awake Magazine article was talking about the kind of thrill seeking that endangers life? Right, that's called control. Like all religions JW's want a certain amount of control over their flock. Can't have JW's jumping out of airplanes all over the place, can we? That wouldn't look meek.
There are over 200 different English language versions of the Bible, all different, and who knows how many in other languages. Most have been written since the early 17th century. There are older Bibles (Vulgate for example) but no original to compare to.
Meaning, by your words that all Bibles lie.
Super Universe
Defender of God
Most JW children love preaching work? Like a child in North Korea loves Kim Jung Il. You are delusional. All children HATE going door to door because they know many people are going to be upset about you pushing your religion on them.
I had a rough upbringing? I didn't have to go door to door. My mom threatened to cut off my dad's visitation if he tried to use me to go door to door.
Oh, and the creepy elder's son became a drug addict at age 16. And there are two ex-JW girls I know who became strippers. And there is a neighbor of mine who was raised JW and he never got a high school diploma because his mom took him out of school at age 15 and home schooled him in Jehovah's Witness religion and didn't teach him anything else. It destroyed his confidence so now he's married to a very overweight ex-drug addict lady and he can't get a good job because he doesn't have a high school diploma or any confidence. Don't you ever wonder what happened to the kids who used to have to come to the Kingdom Hall when they were young and they don't come anymore?
The apostles restated what God told to Israel about the sanctity of blood? What would an apostle know about future medicine? If you want to worship apostles then go ahead, maybe you should change your name from Jehovah's Witnesses to "The Apostle Worshippers."
The blood transfusion page you linked had a title, "Blood Transfusions Still Saving Lives But There Are Risks." If an adult JW refuses to get a blood transfusion, I am very okay with it. I think you should always refuse. If your child needs one and you hesitate and it harms the child, I think you should be put in jail. If the child dies because you hesitated, I think you should get the death penalty.
Jesus said we are to love our enemies? But He was Jesus. He knew He was going to become the ruler of the universe and He did not have an earthly family with young children to protect.
"Those who live by the sword die by the sword?" Picking up one to defend your family is not the same as being a soldier and not all soldiers die fighting. Don't worry, the rest of us will defend you. You can hide in your Kingdom Hall.
Jesus conveyed Revelations to John through an angel? Says John. Oh, that's right. You worship apostles.
You will take John's word over aliens any day? What aliens are you talking about? So you admit that you worship apostles then?
Ideas invented by the Urantia papers are all okay? Depends on what you mean by the word "okay." I don't like having to reincarnate on other planets and not remember what I've learned here. I also don't think that the asian race is superior but it doesn't specify how they are superior. I also don't like that Jesus allowed the Lucifer Rebellion to go on, I would have zapped him instantly. I also don't like that it says the devil is still on the earth.
And the UB was supposedly channeled by angels, not aliens. Where did the books of the bible come from?
We are in the end times now? My dad used to say that in the 70's. He said when armaggedon comes he would come and get me from school and we would go to the Kingdom Hall and sing songs. Still waiting...
Oh, and the magazines you JW's produce predicted the end times back in 1916, and 1917, and then again in 1918. What happened? When something is consistently wrong over and over and over again when does it become a lie?
Super Universe
Defender of God
How come people have to defend everything their religion does?
Why can't JW's say "You know, I don't like this part." Or, I don't agree with the blood transfusion thing or the changing the bible verses part, or I don't like using children to do our preaching.
I can do that with the UB. I've stated the things I don't like about it and disagree with.
Why do JW's have to defend their religion as if it and JW's are perfect in every possible way?
What you're not regular humans like the rest of us who are individuals who have different opinions than the group?
Why can't JW's say "You know, I don't like this part." Or, I don't agree with the blood transfusion thing or the changing the bible verses part, or I don't like using children to do our preaching.
I can do that with the UB. I've stated the things I don't like about it and disagree with.
Why do JW's have to defend their religion as if it and JW's are perfect in every possible way?
What you're not regular humans like the rest of us who are individuals who have different opinions than the group?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Wikipedia lists 107 complete English versions of the Bible plus 35 partial English translations, so there's bound be a large number of differences between Bibles---if all Bibles read the same there would be no reason to come out with a new version. That their scripture doesn't match those in your Bible is just as likely as the scripture in your Bible not matching that of any other particular Bible. Consider Isaiah 45:7
KJV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
CSB
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
CJB
I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai, do all these things.
CEV
I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the Lord, do all of this.
ERV
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.
ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
TLB
I form the light and make the dark. I send good times and bad [times]. I, Jehovah, am he who does these things.
MSG
I am God, the only God there is. I form light and create darkness, I make harmonies and create discords. I, God, do all these things.
NIRV
I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
CSB
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
CJB
I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai, do all these things.
CEV
I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the Lord, do all of this.
ERV
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.
ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
TLB
I form the light and make the dark. I send good times and bad [times]. I, Jehovah, am he who does these things.
MSG
I am God, the only God there is. I form light and create darkness, I make harmonies and create discords. I, God, do all these things.
NIRV
I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.
So what did god create, make, cause, form, or send? And why does the one that matches whatever your Bible says, thee correct one?
FYI.
The Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, NEW WORLD TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES (2013 REVISION) says in Isaiah 45:7
"I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, Jehovah, am doing all these things."
As do 20% of the other bibles I checked.
I assume you have reason to believe the Bible you have is indisputably the absolute correct one, and all other Bibles should be measured against it. Care to tell us why?
.
.
From your posts here, I personally think that your issues are way more serious than you realise. If all you remember are such negative things, can I ask you what influence your mother had on your attitude towards your father and his religion? Did they split up over it? Was she as bitter as you seem to be? You grew up in a separated family, hating your father and anything to do with him. The acne story is positively ridiculous! If you never saw your father again, I'm sure it had nothing to do with your pimples.
From what you write, it appears as if you are so damaged by your upbringing that it has poisoned your thinking and warped your perceptions in so many ways. I feel sorry for you and hope you can get some help to heal. That much baggage has to get heavy. Hate is an awful burden.
Is there any happiness in your life?
Super Universe
Defender of God
So I can change the US constitution and teach my version to your children in school and you will be okay with it then. And I can teach your children my changed laws. And I can teach them my changed version of history. And I can teach them my version of what science says. And all the while I don't have to tell them "Oh, I made some changes."
I looked up a couple of the passages that were in the Awake Magazine and compared them to the JW New World Translation bible online. The Awake Magazine passages were changed, they were not the same as the JW bible.
The JW bible says: For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things.
The Awake says: To survive we need clean water, food, clothing, and shelter from the weather.
So, they're changing the bible verses from their own bible translation. Now, why would they do that?
Adding in that you need "clean" water, and shelter from the weather is making it more correct since we know that you need four things to survive. In the initial biblical quote in Timothy, the author probably wasn't trying to teach a science course when he wrote that or maybe he did not know that you need "clean" water and shelter to survive. Or, it could be argued that enough clothes provide shelter. Anyway, the JW's are changing biblical verses because they try to apply bible teachings to today's problems. They try to appear that they have bible prophecy figured out but Charles Taze Russell never received a vision. He never heard a voice that told him some new philosophy.
Super Universe
Defender of God
From your posts here, I personally think that your issues are way more serious than you realise. If all you remember are such negative things, can I ask you what influence your mother had on your attitude towards your father and his religion? Did they split up over it? Was she as bitter as you seem to be? You grew up in a separated family, hating your father and anything to do with him. The acne story is positively ridiculous! If you never saw your father again, I'm sure it had nothing to do with your pimples.
From what you write, it appears as if you are so damaged by your upbringing that it has poisoned your thinking and warped your perceptions in so many ways. I feel sorry for you and hope you can get some help to heal. That much baggage has to get heavy. Hate is an awful burden.
All I remember is negative things about the JW's? Because it was all negative. The services were very dry and everyone was very stiff and uptight. Everyone was afraid to be human and trying to act like JW robots. How come no one stands up and says "Two hours is too long for the children and I don't really care for it either."
My father and his wife rarely went anywhere. Disneyland was about the only place they could go. One time the circus came to town and my father wanted to go so we went and before the circus started they played the national anthem and I stood up, I didn't know the JW's don't stand for the national anthem since I was only a two Sunday's a month JW. My dad told me to sit back down. The people around us gave us dirty looks and later on his wife was upset with him in the car because of it.
Where does the bible say to not stand for your countries national anthem? Jesus said "Give to Rome the things that are Roman." You guys make things up and twist them and change them so you can feel that only you have the truth when you've only fooled yourselves.
What influence did my mother have? She hated the JW's because they broke up her marriage when my dad turned JW out of the blue simply because one of them knocked on the door. She was German Lutheran and would not become a JW. Now, here's the thing, my mother became an alcoholic and was very abusive towards me because she saw me as my dad. She couldn't yell at my dad because he was gone.
My father was not abusive but he was a JW. So, I did not like either of them but I knew my mother would not really harm me. I could take daily verbal abuse, but I was terrified of the JW religion because of the crazy stories they told.
One time this JW elder came over for dinner at my dads and told some crazy story about a JW family who had a sick child. The elder looked around the house and found a metal coat of arms over the fireplace, two crossed swords with a shield. So the elder tore it down and bent it all up and said that God was punishing the family for having an item of war in their house. Oh, and the child supposedly got better. That's such bull and you know it.
I never hated my father, but I did hate the JW's.
The acne story is ridiculous? It absolutely is, too bad it's true.
Hate is an awful burden? It keeps me sharp. The earth is not heaven, it's the gladiator pit.
Is there any happiness in my life? I worked my way through school, no help from mom or dad. And then I worked for 23 years, saved, bought a small starter house, sold it and hit the market perfectly, invested the money, and then retired at 40 and bought 10 acres in the California foothills and built a 2,590 sq ft house. My land and home are paid for and it's absolutely beautiful. I get a retirement I still have $245,000 in mutual funds that's increasing in value at more than 20% a year. And I just bought a new car in July.
My dad and his wife (I heard from a step brother, one of his wife's sons, not his), built a nice custom house in a small farming town about 20 miles outside of the city. I looked it up on a Google street view. It's nice. I saw on a social security website that he died in 2005. I found the grave on Graves.com but I will never go visit it, I just wanted to see if his wife posted his history. She didn't.
Still waiting for that armaggedon thing to happen. What do you think, next year?
@ Super Universe, there is no point in addressing all your issues because they are your perception of the way things were. Perceptions can be distorted by many things. That is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard. Talk about getting set up for life-long issues! You would be a psychologist's nightmare. Just curious if this led to alcohol or drug addiction.....it would be completely understandable.
In answer to your question...."Where does the bible say to not stand for your countries national anthem? Jesus said "Give to Rome the things that are Roman." You guys make things up and twist them and change them so you can feel that only you have the truth when you've only fooled yourselves."
Actually Jesus said....."Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God". That means that we do not give God's things to Caesar....and God needs nothing that belongs to Caesar.
I can say that we do not stand for or sing the national anthem because....
1) it is promoting nationalism, which is not something a Christian can do. We serve a kingdom that is not earthly, so because we do not have dual citizenship ("My kingdom is not from this source") we do not participate in nationalistic activities...period, regardless of the nation we occupy. We are however, very law abiding. So what is more important....standing for the anthem but being a thief or a murderer, or being a responsible citizen who is just following their conscience? Who is it harming?
2) The national anthem is classed as a hymn BTW. We sing songs of worship only to God.
3) Saluting the flag is classed as an act of worship, so we will not do that either. The flag then becomes an idol. Who can deny that it is treated as one?
And you think this did not damage you? OMG you virtually spit hatred in every sentence......how awful to carry all that around inside you. I will wager that it has affected all your own relationships.
I really don't know what crazy stories these could be, though I have heard of material objects that were involved in some way with practicers of spiritism affecting some individuals negatively. I have even had experiences with this myself. It is real...I can vouch for that. The demons are very active on earth today.
Nothing you describe remotely fits what has been my own experience for the last 45 years as a JW. I became a Witness in my twenties. I have been in quite a few different congregations and found the brothers to be awesome friends everywhere I went. I believe your experience was jaded by your parent's messing with your sensibilities as a child. I do not know of any children who are terrified of Jehovah. Children are an integral part of our congregations and we cater to them with lots of visual things these days. Tablets and iPads are in constant use in our meetings. Videos are a large part of our instruction, and the meetings are now much shorter. We all enjoy them very much. I am sorry that you see your childhood as such a painful experience. Out of millions of parents, you seem to have drawn the short straw.
You do not mention sharing your life with anyone. Are you alone in your little slice of paradise? Are material things your measure of success? What was Jesus advice?
"Stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal. 20 Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal"....."No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches." (Matthew 6:19-20; 24)
With all the natural disasters befalling people in today's world, (America is particularly copping it at present) everything you have could be gone tomorrow....fire, flood, hurricane, earthquake......no one is immune.
"Things" don't make you happy....."people" make you happy. But the fact is.....people won't make you happy unless you know how to make them happy. This is something your parents failed to achieve. I hope their legacy is not the story of your life.
In answer to your question...."Where does the bible say to not stand for your countries national anthem? Jesus said "Give to Rome the things that are Roman." You guys make things up and twist them and change them so you can feel that only you have the truth when you've only fooled yourselves."
Actually Jesus said....."Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God". That means that we do not give God's things to Caesar....and God needs nothing that belongs to Caesar.
I can say that we do not stand for or sing the national anthem because....
1) it is promoting nationalism, which is not something a Christian can do. We serve a kingdom that is not earthly, so because we do not have dual citizenship ("My kingdom is not from this source") we do not participate in nationalistic activities...period, regardless of the nation we occupy. We are however, very law abiding. So what is more important....standing for the anthem but being a thief or a murderer, or being a responsible citizen who is just following their conscience? Who is it harming?
2) The national anthem is classed as a hymn BTW. We sing songs of worship only to God.
3) Saluting the flag is classed as an act of worship, so we will not do that either. The flag then becomes an idol. Who can deny that it is treated as one?
And you think this did not damage you? OMG you virtually spit hatred in every sentence......how awful to carry all that around inside you. I will wager that it has affected all your own relationships.
I really don't know what crazy stories these could be, though I have heard of material objects that were involved in some way with practicers of spiritism affecting some individuals negatively. I have even had experiences with this myself. It is real...I can vouch for that. The demons are very active on earth today.
Nothing you describe remotely fits what has been my own experience for the last 45 years as a JW. I became a Witness in my twenties. I have been in quite a few different congregations and found the brothers to be awesome friends everywhere I went. I believe your experience was jaded by your parent's messing with your sensibilities as a child. I do not know of any children who are terrified of Jehovah. Children are an integral part of our congregations and we cater to them with lots of visual things these days. Tablets and iPads are in constant use in our meetings. Videos are a large part of our instruction, and the meetings are now much shorter. We all enjoy them very much. I am sorry that you see your childhood as such a painful experience. Out of millions of parents, you seem to have drawn the short straw.
You do not mention sharing your life with anyone. Are you alone in your little slice of paradise? Are material things your measure of success? What was Jesus advice?
"Stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal. 20 Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal"....."No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches." (Matthew 6:19-20; 24)
With all the natural disasters befalling people in today's world, (America is particularly copping it at present) everything you have could be gone tomorrow....fire, flood, hurricane, earthquake......no one is immune.
"Things" don't make you happy....."people" make you happy. But the fact is.....people won't make you happy unless you know how to make them happy. This is something your parents failed to achieve. I hope their legacy is not the story of your life.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Whaaaaa? What the heck are you talking about? There is only one version of the Constitution. Period. There are many, many versions of the Bible. Sheeesh! Get a grip SU.
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Super Universe
Defender of God
@ Super Universe, there is no point in addressing all your issues because they are your perception of the way things were. Perceptions can be distorted by many things. That is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard. Talk about getting set up for life-long issues! You would be a psychologist's nightmare. Just curious if this led to alcohol or drug addiction.....it would be completely understandable.
In answer to your question...."Where does the bible say to not stand for your countries national anthem? Jesus said "Give to Rome the things that are Roman." You guys make things up and twist them and change them so you can feel that only you have the truth when you've only fooled yourselves."
Actually Jesus said....."Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God". That means that we do not give God's things to Caesar....and God needs nothing that belongs to Caesar.
I can say that we do not stand for or sing the national anthem because....
1) it is promoting nationalism, which is not something a Christian can do. We serve a kingdom that is not earthly, so because we do not have dual citizenship ("My kingdom is not from this source") we do not participate in nationalistic activities...period, regardless of the nation we occupy. We are however, very law abiding. So what is more important....standing for the anthem but being a thief or a murderer, or being a responsible citizen who is just following their conscience? Who is it harming?
2) The national anthem is classed as a hymn BTW. We sing songs of worship only to God.
3) Saluting the flag is classed as an act of worship, so we will not do that either. The flag then becomes an idol. Who can deny that it is treated as one?
And you think this did not damage you? OMG you virtually spit hatred in every sentence......how awful to carry all that around inside you. I will wager that it has affected all your own relationships.
I really don't know what crazy stories these could be, though I have heard of material objects that were involved in some way with practicers of spiritism affecting some individuals negatively. I have even had experiences with this myself. It is real...I can vouch for that. The demons are very active on earth today.
Nothing you describe remotely fits what has been my own experience for the last 45 years as a JW. I became a Witness in my twenties. I have been in quite a few different congregations and found the brothers to be awesome friends everywhere I went. I believe your experience was jaded by your parent's messing with your sensibilities as a child. I do not know of any children who are terrified of Jehovah. Children are an integral part of our congregations and we cater to them with lots of visual things these days. Tablets and iPads are in constant use in our meetings. Videos are a large part of our instruction, and the meetings are now much shorter. We all enjoy them very much. I am sorry that you see your childhood as such a painful experience. Out of millions of parents, you seem to have drawn the short straw.
You do not mention sharing your life with anyone. Are you alone in your little slice of paradise? Are material things your measure of success? What was Jesus advice?
"Stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal. 20 Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal"....."No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches." (Matthew 6:19-20; 24)
With all the natural disasters befalling people in today's world, (America is particularly copping it at present) everything you have could be gone tomorrow....fire, flood, hurricane, earthquake......no one is immune.
"Things" don't make you happy....."people" make you happy. But the fact is.....people won't make you happy unless you know how to make them happy. This is something your parents failed to achieve. I hope their legacy is not the story of your life.
Having experiences does not distort perceptions. Perceptions are distorted by imposing your desire into the experience.
I would be a psychologists nightmare? Psychologist nightmares are self destructive people who refuse to grow up and be responsible simply because their mommies did not give them hugs and the mom is dead so there is no way to fix it. Just because I have scars does not mean I'm deeply troubled. I see things that others can't see.
As for alcohol, I went through a very typical high school drinking stage and then stopped after graduation. Drugs, I tried pot twice in high school. I didn't really care for it because it alterred my perception of things. I don't want to forget what I've been through because that would change who I am. It's better when you've chosen to stop being immature and you've earned everything you have.
You don't stand for the anthem because that promotes nationalism? What's wrong with nationalism? You can stand for other national anthems as well as a sign of respect even if you are not a citizen of the other nation.
We serve a kingdom that is not earthly? We don't serve. We experience.
You can't serve the nation and God's kingdom? One day thousands of years from now there won't be any nations but until that time the nation serves it's purpose. Some countries produce little, invent little, discover little, they evolve very slowly, or not at all, and do not contribute a thing to the world. This armageddon idea you JW's love so much is never going to happen but humanity will evolve into a higher form, a better form. We will become sentient universal beings. How long it takes depends on how much hard work and ingenuity those with real vision can provide to the others who have no vision and can't even be mature human beings.
Who is it harming when you don't stand for the anthem? No one. It's your right to free speech. What I don't like about it is that its an invention. It's not in the bible. It's something that Charlie Taze or some elders made up to set you apart from the other religions. When you do it you're not following biblical teachings, you're following Charlie Taze Russells teachings.
Celebrating birthdays is the same thing. It's not in the bible, that's from Charlie.
One time my dad asked me why I never got him a father's day gift. I couldn't believe it. You mean JW's are okay with father's day? All these stupid rules are control. They're not what God wants. God gave us free will and you took it and what did you do with it, you invented rules.
Saluting the flag is classed as an act of worship? By who, Charlie Taze Russell? So is obeying the speed limit, being respectful to your boss, and paying taxes, and getting in line at the store, and paying for things instead of just taking them. Everything could be classified as some level of worship of something other than God but you only follow the things that Charlie said were the JW religion. That's worshipping Charlie.
I think my mom's abuse did not damage me? Sure it did but that was something I needed. I was too naive about humans. I thought mothers had to love their children. They don't. People who don't get the life they want will do anything to feel good about themselves and children are easy targets because they can't defend themselves and they don't tell because they don't want their friends to know.
I spit hatred in every sentence? Venting anger at the way I was treated is not hatred. Not even close. And what I went through made me who I am. I never wanted to be like my mother or father so I did everything I could to be different.
The demons are very active on the earth today? No, they're not. Humans have to take responsibility for their actions and inaction. Satan and demons are an excuse. If you really understood Revelations you would know that, Jesus ended the rebellion after He ascended.
Your JW experiences are very different than mine? Maybe they were. I only went two Sunday's a month and I went to some of the really big conventions that were incredibly boring. But I have talked to a lot of other JW kids and none have ever continued being JW's once they were able to get away. How can you not see that? Once the kids reach adulthood they no longer come to the Kingdom Hall anymore.
Tablets and iPads are used in the meetings nowadays? Is there any laughter? I bet not, because you're Charlie Russell robots.
Out of millions of parents I drew the short straw? Not really. I grew up in a poor area of town. My story is one of thousands of others. I got out and finally was able to grow up. Many others didn't.
Am I alone? This online thing exposes you to all kinds of people. I don't have a problem with anyone criticizing me or my beliefs or anything I've done, I can defend myself, but the wife and kids are not a part of this.
The treasures I have on the earth I earned. I know they are temporary but I can say that I built something beautiful. I planted an orchard. The foxes steal my pears but I don't care.
Everything I have could be gone tomorrow? It could. The things I have are not important, the important thing was learned something new. I didn't know a thing about compacting dirt, now I do. I can build roads whereas before I had no idea.
Things don't make you happy? Taking something that is unused or broken and fixing it does. Taking something that is considered a waste and cleaning it up, taking something no one else would attempt to improve and making something that other people are amazed at. What else would I do with my time here? I'm not going to sit in a Kingdom Hall and wait for God to do what we should be doing for ourselves already. I already wasted enough time sitting and waiting in Kingdom Halls.
Super Universe
Defender of God
There are many constitutions around the world. How would you like it if I taught your children another countries constitution and didn't tell them that it was not the US one?
....And, further, Ancient Judaism is different from the modern version! For one thing, the name Yahweh ~ the very name that was praised by Moses, King David, Isaiah, etc. — is forbidden to even pronounce! (They didn’t think so.)
Take care,
Skwim
Veteran Member
Well, you identified the constitution you would be teaching when you said.
"So I can change the US constitution and teach my version to your children in school and you will be okay with it then."
So we're only talking about one constitution, "the US constitution," and not one from some other country.
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Hello, Katzpur! I hope you’ve been well.
I must say, you’ve come into contact with me a few times on this forum, and we’ve had pleasant exchanges. So it’s not been everyone of us. I’m really sorry for any condescension you’ve experienced. Most of us try hard to “adorn the teaching of our Savior”, but imperfection inhibits us many times.
Peace and best wishes to you.