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Isiah 45:7.

DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
If you take the verse in context you get a much better picture of what the LORD is saying:

1“This is what the Lord says to his anointed,

to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of

to subdue nations before him

and to strip kings of their armor,

to open doors before him

so that gates will not be shut:

2I will go before you

and will level the mountainsa ;

I will break down gates of bronze

and cut through bars of iron.

3I will give you hidden treasures,

riches stored in secret places,

so that you may know that I am the Lord,

the God of Israel, who summons you by name.

4For the sake of Jacob my servant,

of Israel my chosen,

I summon you by name

and bestow on you a title of honor,

though you do not acknowledge me.
5I am the Lord, and there is no other;

apart from me there is no God.

I will strengthen you,

though you have not acknowledged me,

6so that from the rising of the sun

to the place of its setting

people may know there is none besides me.

I am the Lord, and there is no other.

7I form the light and create darkness,

I bring prosperity and create disaster;

I, the Lord, do all these things.

8“You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;

let the clouds shower it down.

Let the earth open wide,

let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;

I, the Lord, have created it.


Here, the LORD is telling Cyrus who He is and what He is.
 
ADigitalArtist

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Hockeycowboy said:
Hello. Thanks for that link! Interesting.
Click to expand...
No problem!
Did you not state, though, that Jews say that Angels can't sin?
Here's an excerpt from that link, that indicates otherwise....
**The Midrash3 relates that when the generation of the Flood went astray, G‑d began to regret having created man. Then two angels, Shamchazai and Azael,4 came before G‑d and said, “Did we not warn You before You created man, saying, ‘What is man, that You should be mindful of him?’”5 G‑d replied: “Then what shall become of the world?” “We will suffice instead,” they replied. G‑d answered, “I know that would you live on that world, the evil inclination would rule you just as much as it controls man, but you would be even worse.” But the angels persisted.....***
Click to expand...
If you'll read further in through the link it'll say:
In fact, in Judaism there is no such thing as fallen angels or conflict in heaven. There is only one Creator in charge of it all, with no forces opposing Him. Even “Satan” is merely the name of an angel whose divinely assigned task is to tempt people to sin.9

While the Midrash’s description of the benei elokim and the nephilim as angels and giants is perhaps the most popular reading, it is not necessarily the most literal one.10
Click to expand...
It's worth noting that the Midrash isn't considered an inerrant scripture, but a history of Rabbinical stories. More about how this particular Midrash story is thought to come about can be read about here:
Reintroducing the Myth of the Fallen Angels into Judaism - TheTorah.com
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Father said:
you know I am going to feel really stupid if she meant a town and not some Holy book like the Torah.
Click to expand...

"Though the terms "Bible" and "Old Testament" are commonly used by non-Jews to describe Judaism's scriptures, the appropriate term is "Tanach," which is derived as an acronym from the Hebrew letters of its three components: Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim."

The Tanakh [Full Text]

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Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
osgart said:
who is The Adversary, in Job of the Tanakh, whom walked to and fro in the earth?
Click to expand...

Obviously it says Satan, which means adversary.

However the whole text, all the way through, tells us YHVH is responsible, - not Satan.

YHVH calls Satan over - and says - have you considered JOB.

He then boasts about Job.

Job 1:7 And YHVH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

In 9 and 10 Satan asks good questions. And in 11 he makes a logical assumption - Job has been perfect - he expects YHVH's good graces which he has been receiving to tis point - SO - if God causes him loss after doing good - surely he will curse YHVH.

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered YHVH, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Job 1:12 And YHVH said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2:6 And said YHVH to Satan, behold, he is in your power, but his life preserve.

Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Job 5:18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.

Job 5:19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Job 10:8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.

Job 10:15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;

Job 10:16 For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou shewest thyself marvellous upon me.

Job 10:17 Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increasest thine indignation upon me; changes and war are against me.

Job 19:6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.

Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.

Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

Job 23:16 For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

As you can see, - the whole text all the way through says YHVH did it to Job, - Satan/Adversary just carries out YHVH's will.

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DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Ingledsva said:
"Though the terms "Bible" and "Old Testament" are commonly used by non-Jews to describe Judaism's scriptures, the appropriate term is "Tanach," which is derived as an acronym from the Hebrew letters of its three components: Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim."

The Tanakh [Full Text]

*
Click to expand...

Opinion noted. If it differs from the Holy Bible I couldnt care less what they call it.
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
MRW Christians quote some Midrash as if it was scripture

original_doge_memefvp59.jpg
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
Father said:
though I don't think that was the intention because the bronze age writers probably did not know darkness is just the absence of Light and is not created.
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See Gen. 20:6, "And I withheld you from sinning to me"

The Hebrew word "And I withheld" ואחשך comes from the root חשך which is the same spelling of the word used to mean "darkness". So possibly, the word for darkness is literally "withholding [light]".
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
Hockeycowboy said:
Hello. Thanks for that link! Interesting.
Did you not state, though, that Jews say that Angels can't sin?
Here's an excerpt from that link, that indicates otherwise....
**The Midrash3 relates that when the generation of the Flood went astray, G‑d began to regret having created man. Then two angels, Shamchazai and Azael,4 came before G‑d and said, “Did we not warn You before You created man, saying, ‘What is man, that You should be mindful of him?’”5 G‑d replied: “Then what shall become of the world?” “We will suffice instead,” they replied. G‑d answered, “I know that would you live on that world, the evil inclination would rule you just as much as it controls man, but you would be even worse.” But the angels persisted.....***
Click to expand...
These are angels that have been placed in human bodies, yes?
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
David1967 said:
Thank you Tumah. Is that the only writings that are considered scripture to the Jews?
Click to expand...
Yes, that is the only writings that is considered holy writings. There are other texts that are considered important writings or that contain sacred concepts, such as the Talmud. But only the Tanach is sacred writings.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Tumah said:
Yes, that is the only writings that is considered holy writings. There are other texts that are considered important writings or that contain sacred concepts, such as the Talmud. But only the Tanach is sacred writings.
Click to expand...

Thank you Tumah, that is very helpful.
 
Ingledsva

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
DavidFirth said:
Opinion noted. If it differs from the Holy Bible I couldnt care less what they call it.
Click to expand...

That is hilarious.

That was a quote from a Jewish site informing you as to what Tanakh means.

Also if you are going to debate JEWISH TANAKH TEXTS, - it is doubly hilarious - that you don't care what Hebrew scholars translate their own texts as.

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DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Ingledsva said:
That is hilarious.

That was a quote from a Jewish site informing you as to what Tanakh means.

Also if you are going to debate JEWISH TANAKH TEXTS, - it is doubly hilarious - that you don't care what Hebrew scholars translate their own texts as.

*
Click to expand...

I'm glad your amused.
 
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